It's so obvious he's lying through his teeth. He did all the tricks, trying to shout down accusations, white girl tears, emotional manipulation by trying to bring his daughter into it.
The whole tactic of getting a bunch of women to vouch for him is transparent and pointless. Few people who commit sexual assault seem like they are likely to do it, when you get a rapist or someone found guilty of sexual assaults you always get people who never thought they were capable of doing it. None of these women can vouch for his actions on the nights of the accusations.
Republicans should let him go, it'll only hurt them if they try to push him through. There's plenty of other candidates that will help them undo Roe Vs Wade...sadly.
Does seem very strange how this has come out now.Why not 1982 or ‘83 or ‘84.....or anytime in the last 36 years?
A cynic could’nt be blamed for thinking it looks like some kind of stitch up.
Does seem very strange how this has come out now.Why not 1982 or ‘83 or ‘84.....or anytime in the last 36 years?
A cynic could’nt be blamed for thinking it looks like some kind of stitch up.
I'd not heard of either party before all this. I'm gonna be cautiously sceptical - the timing is suspect, and tbh I'd be angry and overly emotional if such false claims were aimed at me. Which side does the available evidence point toward, hers or his?
I'm not listening atm... yesterday was exhausting enough ._. ... maybe I will tune in soon though after I make my coffee...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W
I'd not heard of either party before all this. I'm gonna be cautiously sceptical - the timing is suspect, and tbh I'd be angry and overly emotional if such false claims were aimed at me. Which side does the available evidence point toward, hers or his?
@Bold Yeah, same.
It's hard to say which way the "evidence" leans, because it depends on what we call evidence and whether we consider the testimony of certain witnesses is credible... there's a lot of chats with media, but those are not under oath. The ones in favor of Kavanaugh have been done under oath with the FBI (?) if iirc... there's a lot of hearsay, speculation and emotional arguments going both directions, but that's not surprising given the media circus this has become...
The burden of proof is on her to have proven her case, but she's doing one side a political favor and so partisan media and that side are going to give here a lot of passes, even if she's not consistent in portions of her testimony... it isn't fair on his end because these are last minute claims and will literally ruin his life even if they're not true...
I haven't read every single fact on the case though, so that's my impression of what I've read so far... I think it would take a trial/investigation to sort tbqh...
I feel both Ford & Kavanaugh (key word: feel) were both victimized in some way yesterday... whoever was telling the truth, I don't think it was fair to them to play political football with both their lives & and their families... it made for very toxic viewing yesterday and I feel a bit deceived/patronized having watched it...
Maybe they need to have a process for serious sexual allegations like this where they are automatically put into investigation under penalty of law (if intentionally false).. so 1) that victims know they will be heard... 2) The accused get a fair hearing in a timely manner... and particularly 3) People aren't sending random letters to partisan senators who then will use it as fodder to fuel their political theater and stoke the press...
I don't feel that he will be confirmed, but the Republicans may do so simply because they have a lot to lose not to confirm him. It will be seen as their failure, either because they selected the wrong nominee or because they didn't have a stiff enough backbone... I guess pick one of those...
During a Fox News interview on Sunday, the Supreme Court nominee Judge Brett M. Kavanaugh rebutted claims of sexual abuse. But some are questioning his characterization of his high school and college years.Published OnSept. 25, 2018CreditCreditImage by Jacquelyn Martin/Associated Press
Brett Kavanaugh’s page in his high school yearbook offers a glimpse of the teenage years of the man who is now President Trump’s Supreme Court nominee: lots of football, plenty of drinking, parties at the beach. Among the reminiscences about sports and booze is a mysterious entry: “Renate Alumnius.”
The word “Renate” appears at least 14 times in Georgetown Preparatory School’s 1983 yearbook, on individuals’ pages and in a group photo of nine football players, including Judge Kavanaugh, who were described as the “Renate Alumni.” It is a reference to Renate Schroeder, then a student at a nearby Catholic girls’ school.
Two of Judge Kavanaugh’s classmates say the mentions of Renate were part of the football players’ unsubstantiated boasting about their conquests.
“They were very disrespectful, at least verbally, with Renate,” said Sean Hagan, a Georgetown Prep student at the time, referring to Judge Kavanaugh and his teammates. “I can’t express how disgusted I am with them, then and now.”
Please disable your ad blocker. ^-^ノ
Judge Kavanaugh’s years at Georgetown Prep, in a Maryland suburb of Washington, are under intense scrutiny because of allegations by Christine Blasey Ford that he sexually assaulted her during high school. Judge Kavanaugh has denied the allegation. He and Dr. Blasey are scheduled to testify Thursday before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Judge Kavanaugh’s peers have given different accounts of what he was like. But his yearbook provides a contemporaneous glimpse of the elite Catholic school’s hard-drinking atmosphere — Judge Kavanaugh’s personal page boasts, “100 kegs or bust” — and a culture that some describe as disrespectful to women.
This month, Renate Schroeder Dolphin joined 64 other women who, saying they knew Judge Kavanaugh during their high school years, signed a letter to the leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is weighing Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination. The letter stated that “he has behaved honorably and treated women with respect.”
When Ms. Dolphin signed the Sept. 14 letter, she wasn’t aware of the “Renate” yearbook references on the pages of Judge Kavanaugh and his football teammates.
“I learned about these yearbook pages only a few days ago,” Ms. Dolphin said in a statement to The New York Times. “I don’t know what ‘Renate Alumnus’ actually means. I can’t begin to comprehend what goes through the minds of 17-year-old boys who write such things, but the insinuation is horrible, hurtful and simply untrue. I pray their daughters are never treated this way. I will have no further comment.”
Please disable your ad blocker.
Advertising helps fund Times journalism.
Alexandra Walsh, a lawyer for Judge Kavanaugh, said in a statement: “Judge Kavanaugh was friends with Renate Dolphin in high school. He admired her very much then, and he admires her to this day.
“Judge Kavanaugh and Ms. Dolphin attended one high school event together and shared a brief kiss good night following that event,” the statement continued. “They had no other such encounter. The language from Judge Kavanaugh’s high school yearbook refers to the fact that he and Ms. Dolphin attended that one high school event together and nothing else.”
Judge Kavanaugh mentioned Renate Dolphin on his yearbook page, his lawyer said, because of one high school event they attended together “and nothing else.” Address and some names have been obscured.
Ms. Dolphin said she had never kissed Judge Kavanaugh. “I think Brett must have me confused with someone else, because I never kissed him,” she said through her lawyer.
In an interview on Fox News on Monday, Judge Kavanaugh defended his high school behavior in general terms. “People might have had too many beers on occasion and people generally in high school — I think all of us have probably done things we look back on in high school and regret or cringe a bit,” he said.
A White House spokesman, Raj Shah, declined to comment beyond the statement from Judge Kavanaugh’s lawyer.
Four of the men who were pictured with Judge Kavanaugh in a photo captioned “Renate Alumni” said it was simply a reference to their dating or going to dances with Ms. Dolphin.
An elite Catholic boys’ high school founded in 1789, Georgetown Prep has many alumni who have gone into public service. Justice Neil M. Gorsuch of the Supreme Court is a graduate, as is Jerome H. Powell, chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Judge Kavanaugh, a member of the football team and the captain of the basketball team, played a prominent role in Georgetown Prep’s firmament in the early 1980s. The school’s culture was one of heavy drinking and at times insensitivity.
The 1983 yearbook, for example, includes multiple apparent references to the Ku Klux Klan (but not on Judge Kavanaugh’s page). His page, in addition to the “Alumnius” entry, mentions his role as “treasurer” of the “Keg City Club.”
“The vast majority of the time I spent in high school was studying or focused on sports and being a good friend to the boys and the girls that I was friends with,” he told Fox News on Monday.
Some of Judge Kavanaugh’s high school peers said there was a widespread culture at the time of objectifying women.
“People claiming that they had sex with other people was not terribly unusual, and it was not terribly believable,” said William Fishburne, who was in Judge Kavanaugh’s graduating class and was a manager for the football team. “Not just Brett Kavanaugh and his particular group, but all the classmates in general. People would claim things they hadn’t done to sort of seem bigger than they were, older than they were.”
Bill Barbot, who was a freshman at Georgetown Prep when Judge Kavanaugh was a senior, said Judge Kavanaugh and his clique were part of the school’s “fratty” culture. “There was a lot of talk and presumably a lot of action about sexual conquest with girls,” Mr. Barbot said.
Ms. Dolphin was a subject of that braggadocio, according to Mr. Hagan and another classmate, who requested anonymity because he fears retribution. They said Judge Kavanaugh and his friends were seeking to memorialize their supposed conquests with the “Renate” yearbook references.
Judge Kavanaugh, far left, and eight football teammates in a yearbook photo. “I don’t know what ‘Renate Alumnus’ actually means,” Ms. Dolphin said. “I can’t begin to comprehend what goes through the minds of 17-year-old boys who write such things, but the insinuation is horrible, hurtful and simply untrue.”
“She should be offended,” Mr. Hagan said of Ms. Dolphin. “I was completely astounded when I saw she signed that letter” on Judge Kavanaugh’s behalf.
Some women who knew Judge Kavanaugh at the time defended his conduct.
“These guys weren’t any different than other boys high schools across the country,” said Suzanne Matan, a friend of Judge Kavanaugh’s from their high school days. “And I chose to hang out with those boys and many other girls did, too, because they were fun, and they were safe, and they were respectful.”
The Georgetown Prep yearbook’s personal pages were designed and written by the individual students, according to alumni. A faculty adviser reviewed the pages.
Judge Kavanaugh was one of 13 graduating seniors who referred to Ms. Dolphin in some way on their personal pages. Some gave themselves titles — DeLancey Davis, for example, listed himself as “chairman of the Bored” of the “Renate Club.” Another football player, Tom Kane, mentioned on his page “Renate’s Suicide Squad.”
The group photo, with Judge Kavanaugh and eight fellow football players in pads and uniform, grinning, was captioned “Renate Alumni.” Mark Judge, the commentator and author who has written about his alcohol-fueled years at Georgetown Prep, stands next to Judge Kavanaugh in the photo.
Barbara Van Gelder, a lawyer for Mr. Judge, declined to comment.
Four of the players in the “Renate Alumni” photo — Mr. Davis, Mr. Kane, Tim Gaudette and Don Urgo Jr. — said in a statement that they had “never bragged about” sexual contact or anything like that with Ms. Dolphin. The statement, issued by Jim McCarthy, a public-relations representative, said the yearbook’s “Renate” references “were intended to allude to innocent dates or dance partners and were generally known within the community of people involved for over 35 years.”
“These comments,” the statement continued, “were never controversial and did not impact ongoing relationships until The Times twisted and forced an untrue narrative. This shabby journalism is causing egregious harm to all involved, particularly our friend, and is simply beneath contempt.”
Michael Walsh, another Georgetown Prep alumnus, also listed himself on his personal yearbook page as a “Renate Alumnus.” Alongside some song lyrics, he included a short poem: “You need a date / and it’s getting late / so don’t hesitate / to call Renate.”
Mr. Walsh, a bank executive in Virginia, was one of scores of Georgetown Prep alumni who signed a letter to Senate Judiciary Committee leaders vouching for Judge Kavanaugh’s “sharp intellectual ability, affable nature, and a practical and fair approach devoid of partisan purpose.” He did not respond to requests for comment.
Ms. Dolphin was aware that members of Judge Kavanaugh’s clique were reciting that poem, according to a person familiar with her thinking. She told the football players that she found it offensive, believing it made her seem like a cheap date, and she asked them to stop.
Some of Judge Kavanaugh’s peers said they doubted that the yearbook notations were good-natured. “Those guys weren’t big on crushes,” Mr. Fishburne said. “I think they felt that if a girl didn’t want to date them, then they must be gay. I’m serious.”
A high school friend of Ms. Dolphin’s, who also signed the letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee, said that while she stood by the letter’s contents, as a friend of Ms. Dolphin’s she was “sickened” by the yearbook’s “Renate” references. She and a second friend of Ms. Dolphin’s denied that there was any sexual contact between Ms. Dolphin and Judge Kavanaugh or anyone else in his circle.
I recognize that shaky, watery laugh, the laugh of a woman in a situation light years from funny. Yesterday, near-tears and loud anger were available to Kavanaugh; they were not available to Ford, not if she wanted to remain “credible” to that panel and to the rest of America. Her testimony was woven from deep breaths and slowly composed sentences and patience, so much patience. The only thing she was allowed to project loudly was helpfulness and an eagerness to accommodate. In contrast to the chillingly familiar image of “uproarious laughter,” there was laughter at a man’s dumb joke as a defense mechanism.
Quote:
I recognize that shaky, watery laugh, the laugh of a woman in a situation light years from funny. Yesterday, near-tears and loud anger were available to Kavanaugh; they were not available to Ford, not if she wanted to remain “credible” to that panel and to the rest of America. Her testimony was woven from deep breaths and slowly composed sentences and patience, so much patience. The only thing she was allowed to project loudly was helpfulness and an eagerness to accommodate. In contrast to the chillingly familiar image of “uproarious laughter,” there was laughter at a man’s dumb joke as a defense mechanism.
A commentor:
Quote:
Quote:
I, too, found myself laughing this week. Not because anything was funny, but because it was so far from funny. “Laugh to keep from crying” is the hoariest cliché imaginable; the phrase is so threadbare that it fails to convey that it feels like claws raking the inside of my throat. Without ever having raised my voice, it feels like I’ve spent the whole week screaming.
Yes, me too. Exactly this.
Also: men’s laughter at women is an additional or alternate form of violence
Several Maryland lawmakers representing Montgomery County are calling on local law enforcement officials to investigate the sexual assault allegations against Supreme Court nominee Brett M. Kavanaugh, arguing the state’s statute of limitations may not apply to some allegations.
“We request an investigation be conducted if Christine Blasey Ford or other complainants support such an investigation,” reads the letter, which was signed by 11 of the 24 members of the county’s House delegation. “We believe local law enforcement has the authority to investigate allegations of crimes without need for a formal complaint, and we further believe third parties have standing to bring such complaints.”
The letter from the Democratic lawmakers comes on the eve of Kavanaugh’s hearing before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee. It is signed by Dels. Kumar Barve, Al Carr, Bonnie Cullison, Ariana B. Kelly, Marc Korman, David Moon, Pam Queen, Kirill Reznik, Shane Robinson, Ana Sol Gutierrez and Jeff Waldstreicher.
Capt. Paul Starks, a spokesman for the Montgomery County Police Department, said Wednesday the department is aware of the letter and is preparing a response to it. He noted that Montgomery detectives follow a “victim-centered” model for sexual assault investigations and cited a statement on the Kavanaugh allegations released by the department two days ago.
The statement read, in part: “The department recognizes that victims of sexual assault may not want to involve law enforcement and/or initiate a criminal investigation, and we respect that position. The department, however, stands prepared to assist anyone who reports being the victim of a sexual assault.”
Earlier this month, Ford went public with her allegations that Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her when they were teenagers. She said he corralled her into a bedroom during a gathering of teens at a house in Montgomery County more than three decades ago.
Since Ford’s allegation, two other women have come forward with allegations against Kavanaugh. He has denied all the accusations.
“County officials may be within the jurisdiction to pursue such an inquiry and are uniquely positioned to investigate publicly announced allegations of sex assaults that may have occurred within our borders,” reads the letter, which was sent to the county chief of police, the county prosecutor and attorneys Michael Avenatti and Debra Katz, who each represent one of the three accusers.
Last week, state Sen. Cheryl Kagan (D-Montgomery) wrote a letter to Gov. Larry Hogan (R) asking him to direct the state police to investigate. Hogan spokeswoman Amelia Chasse said in a statement that state police are “free to investigate any matter in accordance with established procedures. The governor has never used the state police to pursue investigations at his personal whim. That is a very dangerous and slippery slope.”
In a separate statement, the Maryland State Police said: “It is the policy of the Maryland State Police to initiate a criminal investigation when a criminal complaint is filed. There has been no complaint filed with the Maryland State Police regarding this issue.
“In addition, the Maryland State Police has a memorandum of understanding with Montgomery County that requires any crime of this nature to be investigated by the Montgomery County Police. As such it would be the responsibility of the Montgomery County Police to investigate an alleged sexual assault.”
I'm glad Donald listened to my concerns and has ordered an FBI investigation, even if it is very limited. Lets see what the week brings because it's already been shown that Kavanaugh lied under oath.
Silence on Wall Street. Tears in a retirement home. The country watches, transfixed, as Ford and Kavanaugh tell their stories.
LAKE WORTH, Fla. — “It looks like she’s crying,” said Hilda Darkins, 71, as the very long day began. Around her, a group of retirees were sitting around circular tables at the Mid-County Senior Center, watching TV. Several retirees were dabbing their own eyes. “Who can blame her?”
On the TV, two senators were arguing. Then Christine Blasey Ford began to speak. Myrtle Facey, 78, looked at her and tried to make a judgment about someone she had never met.
“She looks scared, and she looks nervous. But I think she’s telling the truth,” said Facey, a retired cashier. “She may have waited a long time to talk about it, but this is something that will never leave you, no matter what happens. You always remember it. You may not think of it every day, but it will always be with you, just like learning the ABCs. You never forget.”
Hours later, at a cigar lounge in Houston, retired police office Merg Meraia, 54, was drinking a Diet Coke and smoking an Ashton Monarch cigar. Brett M. Kavanaugh’s fiery defense, his voice cracking, convinced him that the Supreme Court nominee was being honest when he denied sexually assaulting Ford.
“If he was even-keeled, I would probably think that maybe we’re not hearing the entire truth about his past,” Meraia said. Instead, Meraia said, Kavanaugh’s reaction showed how deeply he’d been hurt: “The emotion is coming from him saying, ‘I want you guys to know that I really am a good person.’ ”
Thursday’s hearing of the Senate’s Judiciary Committee — called to investigate Ford’s allegations of sexual assault against Kavanaugh, the Supreme Court nominee — transfixed Americans like few events in recent history.
People listened on cellphone speakers in subway cars and doctors’ waiting rooms. The New York Stock Exchange got quiet. The Capitol’s hallways emptied. At the Department of Housing and Urban Development, so many people watched Ford’s testimony from their desks that the IT department warned they could overwhelm the network.
What they saw was a drama in two vastly different parts.
The second part — Kavanaugh’s emotional defense of his innocence and his reputation — was highly unusual in the staid history of Supreme Court hearings. It could have helped save his nomination or helped derail it, depending on how a few GOP senators react.
The first part — Ford’s testimony about the alleged assault, and the shadow it cast on her life — had a different resonance. People cried in airplane seats. They called into C-SPAN to tell their own stories of sexual assault.
For a few hours, Ford told a tale of private pain before a massive public audience. In her story, many viewers saw their own.
People watched to see a woman speak, without knowing yet who would believe her.
“16A: Crying. 14B: Crying. 17C: Weeping,” Ron Lieber, a New York Times columnist, wrote on Twitter from a flight headed from New York to Salt Lake City, listing the reactions as passengers watched the hearing on seat-back televisions. “I am one of the criers.”
As the hearings began around 10 a.m., some of the busiest places in the country fell quiet. At the New York Stock Exchange, Brad Smith — an anchor for the news site Cheddar — said normally frenetic traders were all watching the TVs. Phones rang in the background, unanswered.
The hearing reached into places that normally don’t bother with politics — at least, not so early in the morning.
In Houston, a retired pastor named Samuel J. Gilbert, 82, went to Jackson’s Barbershop for his weekly haircut. The hearing was on CNN. He said he was struck by the risk that Ford was taking.
“This lady, she really put herself on the line knowing that people don’t usually put a woman’s word over men,” Gilbert said.
In Washington — a city so odd that bars treat congressional hearings like bowl games — Shaw’s Tavern opened an hour earlier than usual, offering bottomless mimosas. But this was not a bowl game.
“We need to change the perception that just because you didn’t tell someone, it didn’t happen,” said Jamar Guy, a 35-year-old Washington resident. He was sitting at the bar, talking about his own sexual assault, years ago, by the son of a family friend. Guy said he vividly recalls the smile on his attacker’s face afterward.
“That stays with you,” Guy said. “Something always stays with you.”
In another part of Washington, two women sat in a therapist’s waiting room, listening to the hearing on tiny cellphone speakers. One reached for the other’s hand.
The same thing happened elsewhere: As Ford told her story, other people told theirs — to family, to strangers, to themselves.
At a cafe in Kansas City, Mo., Coleen Voeks sipped a glass of Redemption whiskey. She held it up to the TV, as a kind of toast.
Voeks, now 45, said she was raped in high school but never told anyone until recently. She felt guilt and remorse, as if she had done something wrong.
“I shouldn’t have gone to his house — I knew his family wasn’t there,” Voeks said. “I should have fought harder. You go through those things for years. What could I have done?”
She continued: “I was 17, and now I’m 45, and it’s taken a long time to get to the point that I realized, when I say no, no means no.”
At that point, the day was only half-over.
In the afternoon, Kavanaugh himself testified. He said he was entirely innocent of Ford’s charges — it could be that someone had assaulted Ford, he said, but that person was not him.
When Kavanaugh’s statement was done, he had convinced some doubters.
“I absolutely sympathized with her. I thought his rebuttal was equally convincing,” said James Boyle, 57, a director of Yale’s Office of Cooperative Research, in New Haven, Conn.
“What I’d really like to see is the FBI investigate,” Boyle said. He said that the senators on the panel are “utterly polarized” and their aim is not to find the truth.
Some who supported Kavanaugh also sympathized with Ford and others who say they have been victims of sexual assault.
Across the smoke-filled cigar lounge in Houston, Benjamin Guajardo, 52, was watching the hearing so closely that he missed the ashtray, spilling ashes onto a side table.
“I believe the Democrats are playing politics and distressing those who have been assaulted,” Guajardo said. “I take this seriously.”
At the bar of Trump’s Washington hotel, Barbara Beaman, a Virginia resident, said she thought Kavanaugh was “justifiably, incredibly furious,” during his testimony and that there was “no corroboration” for Ford’s allegations against him. She added that she thought Kavanaugh was respectful and showed “a lot of emotion,” especially when he talked about his family.
“To me, it’s quite obvious something may have happened with Dr. Ford, but it had nothing to do with Brett Kavanaugh,” she said.
Kavanaugh’s noisy appearance — following Ford’s quiet one — left some people unsure what to believe.
His part of the hearing was interrupted by bitter fighting and recriminations among senators, as Kavanaugh sat watching.
It slowly became a Washington spectacle, understood by a small audience and aimed at an even smaller one. In the short term, the only people whose reaction matters are the small group of GOP senators whose votes could put Kavanaugh on the court — or kill his nomination.
While they kept talking, the impact of the day’s first half continued long after Ford was done speaking.
At the National Sexual Assault Hotline, the volume of calls — already running high since Ford’s allegations became public — was much higher than normal Thursday.
“On a typical weekday, our queue of folks waiting to talk to one of our hotline staff might be six to eight people,” said Scott Berkowitz, chief executive of the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network, which runs the hotline. “Today, it’s gotten as high as 49.”
Many of those callers, Berkowitz said, had stories that mirrored Ford’s: They wanted to talk about events that had happened years before.
That women might keep such secrets seemed a given to many viewers.
In Milwaukee, a small group of people watched the hearing on television at a bar called Y-Not.
The TV above the bar showed Rachel Mitchell — an Arizona prosecutor brought in by Republicans — questioning Ford about her memories and a polygraph test Ford had taken about the allegations.
The crowd, which previously had been ambivalent about the hearing, turned strongly — and profanely — in favor of Ford.
“She’s not on [expletive] trial,” said Paul Chier, sitting at the bar, responding to the prosecutor’s questioning of Ford.
“Unfortunately, she is on trial, and she is [expletive] killing it,” answered Matt Earnest, three chairs down.
A bit later during the hearing, the TV showed Sen. Christopher A. Coons (D-Del.), who said two-thirds of sexual-assault victims don’t report. Amanda Delsart, a bartender, yelled back at the TV.
“Because no one [expletive] believes them!” she said, the anger obvious in her voice.
Martin reported from Houston. Fahrenthold reported from Washington. Donna St. George, Robert Costa, Sarah Kaplan and Michael Brice-Saddler, in Washington; Karen Dillon in Kansas City; Steven Burkholder in New Haven, Conn.; and Dan Simmons in Milwaukee contributed to this report.
28-09-2018, 09:48 PM
Guys, if I stop posting... it's the civil cyber war...
Hybrid Mode
