[Nicky91]

there is seriously nothing wrong with a good march against racism

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

there is seriously nothing wrong with a good march against racism

No one said otherwise...

[user104658]

I think it's a uniform and uniforms inherently come with certain connotations and are designed, if not to be threatening, to at least hint at an organised "front" or a battle line being drawn. I'm not intimidated by it, I don't think it's unquestionably intended to intimidate, but I do think that it's inevitably going to be misconstrued and thus might not have the intended effect. I think it pushes the movement further towards the fringe and makes it difficult for the bulk of "mainstream peoples" to continue to empathise, so those people will disengage, and at that point the battle is lost.

As I've said before I understand the motivation, I understand the frustration, I understand the DESIRE to "force change"... I'm just a realist and have to point out that you can't force change without mainstream support, and thus, any action that erodes mainstream support is going to be counter-productive.

tl;dr I get it, but I think sadly a lot of the mainstream support gained lately is going to get nervous and exit via the side door.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think it's a uniform and uniforms inherently come with certain connotations and are designed, if not to be threatening, to at least hint at an organised "front" or a battle line being drawn. I'm not intimidated by it, I don't think it's unquestionably intended to intimidate, but I do think that it's inevitably going to be misconstrued and thus might not have the intended effect. I think it pushes the movement further towards the fringe and makes it difficult for the bulk of "mainstream peoples" to continue to empathise, so those people will disengage, and at that point the battle is lost.

As I've said before I understand the motivation, I understand the frustration, I understand the DESIRE to "force change"... I'm just a realist and have to point out that you can't force change without mainstream support, and thus, any action that erodes mainstream support is going to be counter-productive.

tl;dr I get it, but I think sadly a lot of the mainstream support gained lately is going to get nervous and exit via the side door.

Effectively if you choose to remain ignorant to this or any cause, it's not your fault.

[Liam-]

If people turn their backs on the cause because of the visual of a group of black people organising and coming together, because of what they’re wearing, then frankly, they never really truly backed the cause and they’re part of the problem imo

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

If people turn their backs on the cause because of the visual of a group of black people organising and coming together, because of what they’re wearing, then frankly, they never really truly backed the cause and they’re part of the problem imo

Maybe but honestly it's a matter of pragmatism vs idealism. What is arguably "morally right" and the way things SHOULD be is not the same as the steps that need to be taken to secure real, meaningful change. The only way to secure meaningful change is to engage with - even manipulate, if needs be - the majority "everyman" mindset and those mindsets are easily frightened away by "too much" moral passion or displays of really any sort of fired-up emotion. Anger, frustration, etc. are all valid but they won't secure meaningful change. The righteous path isn't the path that secures results, because the people who hold power don't give a **** what's right, only what's popular or benefits them directly. It's a hard pill to swallow but I think everyone has to at some point. There's a reason idealism fades with age... and it's mostly repeated realisations that things that seem to be "going somewhere" inevitably lose steam when they become emboldened, because they start losing mainstream support.

You don't really have to believe me, I guess. It'll become self-evident in time. These images are "too much" for the majority audience and so it doesn't actually matter what the intent is, in terms of the outcome.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Maybe but honestly it's a matter of pragmatism vs idealism. What is arguably "morally right" and the way things SHOULD be is not the same as the steps that need to be taken to secure real, meaningful change. The only way to secure meaningful change is to engage with - even manipulate, if needs be - the majority "everyman" mindset and those mindsets are easily frightened away by "too much" moral passion or displays of really any sort of fired-up emotion. Anger, frustration, etc. are all valid but they won't secure meaningful change. The righteous path isn't the path that secures results, because the people who hold power don't give a **** what's right, only what's popular or benefits them directly. It's a hard pill to swallow but I think everyone has to at some point. There's a reason idealism fades with age... and it's mostly repeated realisations that things that seem to be "going somewhere" inevitably lose steam when they become emboldened, because they start losing mainstream support.

You don't really have to believe me, I guess. It'll become self-evident in time. These images are "too much" for the majority audience and so it doesn't actually matter what the intent is, in terms of the outcome.

That's a very English lower middle class opinion. Nothing was ever changed in recent modern history by writing a stern letter or handing in a petition.
Even in the burbs if you want to be listened to and taken seriously you have to galvanise and organise.
This is what they are doing, if the net twitchers are scared by the sight of these protests then they need educating not placating.
Your ' go with the flow' mindset is not working. There's a reason idealism fades with age... that is because people like you stop speaking up for others and concentrate on work, bills and raising the next generation of plebs. (not calling your brats plebs btw) you are so stressed, tired and busy you don't have the time or energy to care about anyone outside your inner circle.
Meanwhile those who are not being treated equal go on not being treated equal. Whether you still care or not.

[Ammi]

....the chants were ‘we are family forever’, very peaceful/non hostile chants...and their march was part of the march that happens every year to mark the Abolishment of Slavery act...it’s only this year that these things are getting more recognition/media coverage because of the BLM current highlighting racism, inequality and injustice etc...I mean, this is the wrong way..?...and black pound day was the wrong way, it was unnecessary etc, we don’t need to support local black businesses...is there ever going to be a ‘right way’ ...anyways, I don’t agree that it’s the wrong way, the march was peaceful...and it’s only a small section from what I can see personally...*cough* Nigel Farage, the DM etc...who will use very divisive terms and words like ‘stab vests’, ‘terrifying’, ‘divide our country like never before’ etc...obviously the EU referendum didn’t divide enough, did it, Nigel...for the most part I think people are entirely supportive and don’t feel any anger/frustration coming from anything, they just feel a coming together in the name of ‘equal’..there was an advertisement on mainstream TV last night, supporting BLM...that’s change, that’s something I’d never seen before, I do believe this is all for the most part still very positive...and the only support that was/is lost is support that was never there in the beginning because it doesn’t want equality and never did...and that is the whole issue...

[bots]

Public perception is everything, and this sort of stuff does nothing for maintaining or increasing public support. People wont be told what to find acceptable.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's a very English lower middle class opinion. Nothing was ever changed in recent modern history by writing a stern letter or handing in a petition.

Even in the burbs if you want to be listened to and taken seriously you have to galvanise and organise.

This is what they are doing, if the net twitchers are scared by the sight of these protests then they need educating not placating.

Your ' go with the flow' mindset is not working. There's a reason idealism fades with age... that is because people like you stop speaking up for others and concentrate on work, bills and raising the next generation of plebs. (not calling your brats plebs btw) you are so stressed, tired and busy you don't have the time or energy to care about anyone outside your inner circle.

Meanwhile those who are not being treated equal go on not being treated equal. Whether you still care or not.

To claim that nothing has changed in recent history (unless you somehow think "recent" means 10 years and not 50) is just verifiably not true, and the things that have changed the most have changed because of mainstream acceptance and support. Now... I don't particularly LIKE that being the case. Having to convince the bulk public of something to get change, when the bulk public is a heaving sack of idiots, is extremely frustrating.

Like I said though it's not really an argument that needs to be had round in circles, it's theory-based and if you're right then the current gradual slide towards bolstered righteous indignation will result in meaningful change. Give me a nudge when that happens.

[The Slim Reaper]

What bots see's

Youtube video

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To claim that nothing has changed in recent history (unless you somehow think "recent" means 10 years and not 50) is just verifiably not true, and the things that have changed the most have changed because of mainstream acceptance and support. Now... I don't particularly LIKE that being the case. Having to convince the bulk public of something to get change, when the bulk public is a heaving sack of idiots, is extremely frustrating.

Like I said though it's not really an argument that needs to be had round in circles, it's theory-based and if you're right then the current gradual slide towards bolstered righteous indignation will result in meaningful change. Give me a nudge when that happens.

Give me an example, one example of something that changed due to a gradual societal shift that was not spurned by some catalyst, movement or protest.

Did we all wake up one morning and want equal rights for many groups? decent housing? Fair wages?

[Nicky91]

because they are at war against the white elite

[Crimson Dynamo]

terrible night of VIOLENCE in LOndon

shocking lawless murder death

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...-a4514216.html

Five men were shot in the space of seven hours as London was rocked by another night of bloodshed.

The latest violence saw gun attacks in Hackney, Brixton and Croydon

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

terrible night of VIOLENCE in LOndon

shocking lawless murder death

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...-a4514216.html

Five men were shot in the space of seven hours as London was rocked by another night of bloodshed.

The latest violence saw gun attacks in Hackney, Brixton and Croydon

Is this linked to the thread in some way?

[Kizzy]

Well said Ammi!

[Crimson Dynamo]

How dare we use democracy and ask people what they think

Are we really criticising public voting now ??

[Brother Leon]

A little bit of Black Pride and Black Military cosplay and all of sudden certain folks want to be “scared” and “worried”. There wasn’t all this concern for division amongst the public when Immigrants were being hounded to get out the country or when Muslims were being abused for the extremist attacks. Give it a rest.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

A little bit of Black Pride and Black Military cosplay and all of sudden certain folks want to be “scared” and “worried”. There wasn’t all this concern for division amongst the public when Immigrants were being hounded to get out the country or when Muslims were being abused for the extremist attacks. Give it a rest.

But you are making examples up to suit your extreme narrative

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But you are making examples up to suit your extreme narrative

Have I been living in a completely different country the last few years?

Brexit,Boris and Grown of The Far Right never happened?

I wonder if you feel people should be scared when Away football fans are marching to a stadium singing and swearing?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not the growth of the fictitious far right..

[user104658]

White privilege is very real, as is male privilege. Class privilege also; you'll automatically do better if you're well-spoken. Not "posh sounding" like Jacko Preece Nogg necessarily, but well enunciated middle class. Racial privilege to an extent plays into class privilege but that doesn't stop it being racial privilege: some people make a lot of class assumptions based on race. So that's still white privilege .

It doesn't necessarily mean that all well spoken white blokes are doing great in life... But it does result in near-universal "automatic positive regard" (where it matters) and that makes an absolutely HUGE difference, whether you realise it or not. It took me until my 30's to recognise it but once you see it, it's unmistakable.

I'm not even going to pretend I don't use those advantages, but that doesn't mean I'm happy that they exist. It's bull****. Very real bull****.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Life isn't fair

Who would have thunk it?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Life isn't fair

Who would have thunk it?

Goes beyond "life isn't fair" and more into it being purposely made even harder than it should be because you have a certain colour skin/accent/genitals. And, no, that's not right.

"Life is hard" is not a justifiable reason to be kicking down those not treated as equal to everyone else.

But, you know that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

[QUOTE=Marsh.;10890977]Goes beyond "life isn't fair" and more into it being purposely made even harder than it should be because you have a certain colour skin/accent/genitals. And, no, that's not right.

"Life is hard" is not a justifiable reason to be kicking down those not treated as equal to everyone else.

But, you know that.[/QUOTE
Yes if only life was fair..

I mean wtaf