[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Some nutters seem to think that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy should wait for the rest of the world to be done..

Erm I would prefer a variation on this.

Once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy can wait for a vaccine if they wish, but otherwise, are free to make their own choice (especially now it seems that there is indeed some stopping of actually catching covid with the vaccines also, not just lower chance of bad illness). It remains a waste of money, time and vaccines to me, to vaccinate younger healthy people really. Yeah if they actively want it. But given it would likely be a 'stay in for another X month waiting for your vaccine' or 'take your tiny tiny risk of getting it badly and live again now'..I cannot imagine the young and fit vaccine line would be too long really. Its always been about the vulnerable. I find it a little depressing when younger people I know are absolutely terrified for their own risk, mainly due to the media repeating the same couple of outliers of younger fit people dying, and such. And while I am well aware that covid is not flu, the vaccine situation I tend to compare in my head, those thinking everyone in the country should get it..would they also push for those not in high risk groups to get the flu vaccine too? I would rather focus went on those who are higher risk, tbh.

I still think its likely a new vaccine may be needed semi regularly, maybe not as often as the flu one, but more than a one off. Focus should really be on getting that right for the people who need it, or would very much benefit from it. Figures dn't really bear out, that younger fitter people wold have much benefit really. There is not endless cash for this either, so in my mind funding should be directed to where its more needed.

[Cherie]

Indonesia are vaccinating the youngest first

Vaccination against COVID-19: why does Indonesia prioritize younger people?
Although the Southeast Asian country also chose to vaccinate, first, health professionals and workers on the so-called front line, they are followed by economically active groups between 18 to 59 years old, Reuters reported.

The reason is linked to the theory of herd immunity: Indonesia is committed to achieving herd immunity faster than other countries that have already started vaccinating their population, such as Argentina, the United States and the United Kingdom.

[Oliver_W]

and to be fair, a good way to stop new worldwide variants coming in would be to close the borders, as SAGE and Air Kier recommend. There's no need to keep allowing people in at this time.

[bots]

as we progress down the age groups there will be less and less people who wish to get the vaccine, so by the summer, most people in the uk who want the jab will have had their 2 shots.

I think we should quickly be able to donate excess vaccine to countries, getting everyone ready for next winter

[DouglasS]

There were always going to be casualties people are acting like zero people should have died, it’s a pandemic... Boris can’t save everyone, but with this vaccine rollout he will bec saving thousands upon thousands of lives, which we will see from March onwards

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

There were always going to be casualties people are acting like zero people should have died, it’s a pandemic... Boris can’t save everyone, but with this vaccine rollout he will bec saving thousands upon thousands of lives, which we will see from March onwards

Nobody mentioned zero deaths. But you know that.
Why bother responding to what people actually said when you can change the argument, eh.

[Nicky91]

10 million vaccinations is better than our 200k vaccinated currently in netherlands

so UK government does phenomenally well compared to our flop Rutte and flop health minister De Jonge

[Cherie]

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

well said Cherie, i fully agree

i admit these recent times have been quite draining on me mentally

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cherie

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

This. Of course any government (especially this one) can do better, but constantly moaning about how the UK's decent vaccination progress still isn't good enough is like yelling at a child for only getting a silver medal on sports day.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

Oh definitely.

But people can do that without rewriting history and pretending the mistakes didn't happen. There's a difference.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Oh definitely.

But people can do that without rewriting history and pretending the mistakes didn't happen. There's a difference.

Whos pretending mistakes didnt happen?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Whos pretending mistakes didnt happen?

You did when you said Boris' mistakes are easier to see in "hindsight". Which is flat out wrong.

They were such catastrophic mistakes because he DID have warnings he chose to ignore.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

10 million vaccinations is better than our 200k vaccinated currently in netherlands

so UK government does phenomenally well compared to our flop Rutte and flop health minister De Jonge

Have they paused vaccination Nicky as it seems to have been at that level for some days now?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Have they paused vaccination Nicky as it seems to have been at that level for some days now?

umm idk, more like ordering some more doses (from Pfizer, and also now from Janssen-Johnson&Johnson)

and there was a recent data leak here at our GGD or national public health institute

[DouglasS]

It’s nice to see everyone in unison and agreement that the government is doing a fantastic job with the vaccine rollout

[Beso]

Can everyone who has made a comment please vote in the poll.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Can everyone who has made a comment please vote in the poll.

You don't have an "in some ways" or "we don't know yet" option, so no.

I'm concerned that rushing out all of the first doses of Pfizer and supply issues will mean that people who got that vaccine won't get their 2nd dose, even at 12 weeks, and will potentially have to start over with a different vaccine. We also don't know if extending the 2nd dose interval from 3 weeks to 12 was fine/not a problem, or a huge error and we won't know for 6+ months.

Is the speed of the roll-out impressive? Yes. Have they "done a good job"? We don't know yet.

To use an allegory Parmy... let's say you go out on your daily telly fixing rounds and you fix LOADS of TVs... more than any other TV repairman in London. Have you "done a good job"? It might seems so since you fixed loads of TVs and lots of happy customers are sat at home watching EastEnders.

But then next week, all of those customers are back on the phone, furious because their TV went tits up again after 5 days... you rushed the job, bodged together a quick fix, but not a proper job that gave a lasting result.

Did you do a good job?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You don't have an "in some ways" or "we don't know yet" option, so no.

I'm concerned that rushing out all of the first doses of Pfizer and supply issues will mean that people who got that vaccine won't get their 2nd dose, even at 12 weeks, and will potentially have to start over with a different vaccine. We also don't know if extending the 2nd dose interval from 3 weeks to 12 was fine/not a problem, or a huge error and we won't know for 6+ months.

Is the speed of the roll-out impressive? Yes. Have they "done a good job"? We don't know yet.

To use an allegory Parmy... let's say you go out on your daily telly fixing rounds and you fix LOADS of TVs... more than any other TV repairman in London. Have you "done a good job"? It might seems so since you fixed loads of TVs and lots of happy customers are sat at home watching EastEnders.

But then next week, all of those customers are back on the phone, furious because their TV went tits up again after 5 days... you rushed the job, bodged together a quick fix, but not a proper job that gave a lasting result.

Did you do a good job?

I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

fair point

Honestly I think no one thought they would roll it out so quickly and had no faith, when they said they would vaccinate first jabs to the first 4 priority groups by mid Feb, I was like..yeah right ...although as I understand it Scotland are lagging and dragging the rest down?

Funny how they are not an independent nation when things go wrong

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

the latest test data shows that the AZ vaccine becomes more effective with a longer interval, it may not be the same for the other brands, time will tell

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

The question is about the here and now though, no one has a crystal ball

[user104658]

tl;dr a job done quickly is not always a job done well.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

tl;dr a job done quickly is not always a job done well.

Very true that actually.

It's also not done well until it's completed fully and correctly too.

Thus far, I'd say handling it well is a more appropriate term.

Still a fair way to go however and particularly when it comes to all the second vaccinations too.

(We aren't though really in the right if we find faults with Johnson and/ or his government it seems).