[Stu]

Originally posted by Lauren

And since when have either chocolate, alcohol, doughnuts, eggs, cheese or alcohol had life-threatening effects on passers-by?

Its been blown way out of proportion this has. Your not going to contract lung cancer from some random guy passing you smoking a cigarette. The area is big. Theirs plenty of room for non smokers and smokers alike to co-exist.

Theirs just some bored people who want stuff other people enjoy banned for the sake of it.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by sarahtheangel
the smoking ban will of course create more non smokers which is a good thing , i smoke have tryed so many times cant give it up . if so many people give up great. but taxes will get higher as a smoker we pay tax on our fags so the goverment will get that tax from everyone else including you non smokers

Many people will stop Sarah and that is what the Government will realise and there are so many angles to this debate, which has taken an almighty push in Government to implement this law.

It is hard to give up, I remember my last girlfriend being totally addicted and even though she was considerate about it and would stand outside and smoke and try her best, she will never kick the habit.

It is a tempory cure for stress.

Taxes is important to the Government, but they are a clever corrupt bunch who will get money in other ways, don't you worry

Gordon Brown will have it covered & he should know..





nodisharmony

[Stu]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

It is a tempory cure for stress.

Not just that. Your taking an uncharecteristically one sided view on things here.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Lauren

And since when have either chocolate, alcohol, doughnuts, eggs, cheese or alcohol had life-threatening effects on passers-by?

I could name plenty of instances where people drinking too much has affected other people. As for fatty foods, well our taxes go the NHS don't they? And the NHS spends far more treating obesity related disease than it does treating smoking related disease. If the current rates of child obesity don't go down, in 20 or 30 years, the NHS will really struggle to cope.

Obviously I don't think fatty foods should be banned. I don't think smoking should be banned in public either.

The government taxes smokers plenty, and now they're saying where you can and can't smoke? Happy to take your money but not to let you smoke your taxed cigarettes where you want?

As I said before, I do believe in choice for EVERYONE, not just the ones who it suits me to agree with. If every landlord had the choice over whether or not to ban smoking, there would not be this issue. You could go to the non-smoking bars, and smokers could go to the smoking bars. I don't smoke, and I don't mind smoke either, so I could go to all the bars!!!

And what does everyone think about smoking being banned in private members clubs? What about if 90% of the members - who pay to be members there - smoke? Yet, currently, they are not allowed to by law. Where's the democracy in that?

This argument is all buzzwords and bandwagons.

[Stu]

Of course tobacco is not the only kind of smoking substance. Theirs one thing thats going the completely opposite way!

Lets not forget we are also [very slowly] working towards legalising cannabis!!!

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Stu
Its been blown way out of proportion this has. Your not going to contract lung cancer from some random guy passing you smoking a cigarette. The area is big. Theirs plenty of room for non smokers and smokers alike to co-exist.

Theirs just some bored people who want stuff other people enjoy banned for the sake of it.

I'm not going to get lung cancer from one random guy passing me smoking. I could, however, develop tar in my lungs from several random passing smoker guys - and since there's so many out there lacking self-control - it's often several that walk past me.

Also, had I worked in a building with several smokers I'd be around a smoking environment for a whole lot longer, thus leaving a window open for cancer etc.

Edit: And it's not also just the health implications... the smell is terrible.

[Stu]

Originally posted by Lauren

I'm not going to get lung cancer from one random guy passing me smoking. I could, however, develop tar in my lungs from several random passing smoker guys - and since there's so many out there lacking self-control - it's often several that walk past me.

Also, had I worked in a building with several smokers I'd be around a smoking environment for a whole lot longer, thus leaving a window open for cancer etc.

Edit: And it's not also just the health implications... the smell is terrible.

Well as someone [possibly you] previously said , its up to them wherther they smell like pig **** .

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Ruth
This argument is all buzzwords and bandwagons.

Don't disregard my argument as buzzwords and bandwagons. It's not a bandwagon that my grandma died from smoking, it's not a buzzword that my aunty contracted lung cancer because my uncle smoked. It's a very real and dangerous thing, it's not down to someone finding a petty argument.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Ruth
I'm not saying smoke to save the NHS!!! I don't smoke myself anyway. BUt I'm pointing out the government's hypocrisy in this matter. People are all thinking the ban is great because they are only thinking about what they want personally.

If you don't smoke and really hate the smell of it and everything about it, then it is true, that we will enjoy this law.

Not smoking is a positive anyway, and there are many reasons

There is a much bigger issue here, and not many people seem to be addressing it. You're all happy for the government to take away your civil liberties when it's something that you don't want to do anyway. Let's see what happens when they try to ban something that you do want to do. It's not a question of whether you like smoking or not. If it was that simple, I would support the ban, seeing as I don't smoke.

The Government have got it right on this issue, in my opinion, as I am an anti-smoker and have been sick & tired of smokers atitudes towards non-smokers in general.

Once upon a time, we were'nt forced to wear seatbelts, also, we weren't forced not to use mobile phones while driving, we can go on & on & on about these types of things.

The Government makes the rules and we obey them or break the law.

I have already seen many smoke in public places and don't give a toss. But that will happen with everything.

Nobody wants to have any civil liberties taken away Ruth, but on this occasion, they did it and like I said, non-smokers are sick of the stink of that horrible smoke

I think smoking in pubs should be at the discretion of the landlord. If, for example, and landlord runs a famly pub with lots of children, he may well decide that he will ban smoking in there. However, some of the pubs I've worked in have been little local pubs where the vast majority of customers are smokers. I believe the landlord should have the choice of keeping smoking in that pub. If non-smokers choose not to go in there, well, that's fine.

That won't work one bit...

Drinking and smoking go together hand in hand and there is no avoiding that.

It has to be a blanket ban or nothing.

Children are suffering enough at home already and myself as an adult, choose to walk into a pub or disco and be able to breathe and not have my clothes stinking of horrible smoke.

I don't wish to smell like an ashtray thanks... Not anymore

Further - I cannot believe that they have banned smoking in private members clubs. That's disgraceful.

I have only been to a working mens club once in my life and that was about 6 years ago. I came in as a guest and I will tell you, that I was absolutley choking on the smoke fumes.

I kept popping into the Gents for air.

Anyway, I left as quick as I could.

It's all well and good when you enjoy it or can put up with it, but I don't and many don't, so blanket-ban it is

Edit: Hi Nodis - thanks for your kind comments

No problem Ruth

Glad your back and make sure you stay




nodisharmony

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Stu
Well as someone [possibly you] previously said , its up to them wherther they smell like pig **** .

LOL exactly, which is why they shouldn't stink me out with their rank smoke.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by secrets
just wait until they ban something that other folks want to do,then it will be a different story.!
lets ban chocolate,alcohol,doughnuts,eggs,cheese.....its all bad so we are told.!

welcome to police state Britain. gggrrrr

Smoking is very serious and eggs, cheese, chocolate are minor in comparison, "Says me eating a Kitkat right now"

Alcohol is serious and the Government are tackling bingedrinking, believe-you-me.






nodisharmony

[Stu]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

the Government are tackling bingedrinking

Damnit.

[Lauren]

LOL Stu, the governments against you.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
I am an ex-smoker (nearly a year) and in fact I am opposed to the smoking ban. As I am a home based worker should I still smoke I would not be allowed to smoke in my own home!! my husband has his own business and is not allowed to smoke in his company vehicles!

It is a sad situation when someone has to go outside and light up, but that is just the way things have fallen and this was a tough decision to make and perhaps many people don't realise this Sunny?

Any public place is banned from smoking and many will enjoy that.

It was banned from many office workplaces already, and I remember how terrible it was when I worked in an office with loads of smokers, all girl's actually, well, all except me

I never as a smoker would have told anyone to get lost if they told me the smell was making them feel sick, I do have a little more character about me. Also I hate the way the non-smokers see it as a punishment for smokers and enjoy their discomfort.

The best smoker, is a considerate smoker, but that is rarer than people think and that is the problem which has escalated to what we have today.

I agree with those who are enjoying cleaner clubbing etc.. but I dont agree with many aspects of the current law.

It will have it's teething problems, as with any new law, but it should improve in time.






nodisharmony

[Stu]

Originally posted by Lauren
LOL Stu, the governments against you.

The establishment tryna' bringa' brotha' down!!!

Next they will ban the apostrophe!!!!

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Stu

Your coming off as the classic ignorant , gleefull non smoker who wishes those who choose to smoke to be more like them.

I would say that most smokers are ignorant of non-smokers feelings on the matter.

Why don't smokers keep the Cigarette in their mouth from start to finish? No, they want to hold it between two fingers and let the smoke travel around so us non-smokers have to suffer.

Im not living in England and Im not sure on the specifics of the smoking ban over their but if people want to enjoy a quiet cigarette [like me] then let them. Health risks yes , but its their life. As strange as it sounds , the gradual forbidding of cigarettes may in fact romanticize them to a degree.

The specifics are simple. A total ban of smoking in ALL public places, except prisons and a couple of others, I think?

There are health-risks and all smokers can enjoy smoking outside, while non-smokers can breathe fresh air.

Is that too much to ask?

Its like what John Stuart Mill said , lets do unto ourselves what we want as long as it does not harm anyone else.

One man can say anything he likes. Gordon Brown and his Government have a job to do and blanket ban on smoking will be obeyed or else... £50 - £2,500

And for those complaining about passive smoking , really , their is many , many places you can move to where your not in the company of smoke. And please stop making posts describing your epic battles with the evils of ash smelling clothes on a Saturday night. Its not that bad guys.

You are joking Stu Smoke gets everywhere, nevermind a smoking section, it doesn't work anymore.
Smokers outside, end of....

If we look at it that way , we should ****ing ban drink because of people getting sick on the streets Im WALKING ON and random scumbags p****d getting stuck into me on while walking home on a Saturday night.

Isint that passivly affecting me?! What does more damage.? Joe #477 outside the bar having a cigarette , or John #777 falling over , getting into fights , and pissing on the dustbins?!

Alcohol does have it's problems and I won't disagree with that and if this debate was about drink, I would also point out the bad side.

But Cigarettes is totally bad and the ban is correct and just.





nodisharmony

[Stu]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

I would say that most smokers are ignorant of non-smokers feelings on the matter.

Why don't smokers keep the Cigarette in their mouth from start to finish? No, they want to hold it between two fingers and let the smoke travel around so us non-smokers have to suffer.

The specifics are simple. A total ban of smoking in ALL public places, except prisons and a couple of others, I think?

There are health-risks and all smokers can enjoy smoking outside, while non-smokers can breathe fresh air.

Is that too much to ask?

One man can say anything he likes. Gordon Brown and his Government have a job to do and blanket ban on smoking will be obeyed or else... £50 - £2,500

You are joking Stu Smoke gets everywhere, nevermind a smoking section, it doesn't work anymore.
Smokers outside, end of....

Alcohol does have it's problems and I won't disagree with that and if this debate was about drink, I would also point out the bad side.

But Cigarettes is totally bad and the ban is correct and just.





nodisharmony

Thats what im getting at. Your just outright saying 'cigarettes are bad' but people like to smoke!.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Ella
But why should non smokers have to move because other people chose to smoke in front of them?

Im pregnant and I like the fact that I can now go into a bar and not have to worry about people blowing smoke around me. If they want a fag they know that they can go outside.

I agree Ella

It will be lovely to walk into a pub or club or restaurant, anywhere which is public and be able to breathe.

When you like Bingo and want to sit down and enjoy a nice game, you can enjoy a lovely smoke-free environment.

The positives are endless.





nodisharmony

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Stu

Thats what Im getting at. Your just outright saying 'cigarettes are bad' but people like to smoke!.

Well stand outside in the rain then

non-smokers have suffered enough, the tables have now turned, so don't bloo*y complain





nodisharmony

[Tanser_Man]

I don't understand the big fuss! You can still smoke!

You say it’s taking your civil liberties away, what about the civil liberties of non smokers who have had to endure passive smoking at almost every corner? At least with things like drink and fatty foods, you’re not affecting the people around you and endangering there lives through your own selfish addictions.

[Ella]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

I agree Ella

It will be lovely to walk into a pub or club or restaurant, anywhere which is public and be able to breathe.

When you like Bingo and want to sit down and enjoy a nice game, you can enjoy a lovely smoke-free environment.

The positives are endless.





nodisharmony

Lol well I can't say Ive ever had the pleasyre of playing bingo..But I know what you mean about it being smoke free. I can actually feel the difference, I don't walk into a bar and start coughing, And I can walk out of a bar knowing that I don't smell like other peoples stale smoke. Its a good feeling.

And it is amusing watching people that do smoke having to smoke in the rain. Makes me giggle.

[Stu]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

Well stand outside in the rain then

non-smokers have suffered enough, the tables have now turned, so don't bloo*y complain





nodisharmony

I realise you can smoke outside and its a fair compromise. Im not arguing where and where not you can smoke , im arguing against those ignorant folk completely against smoking without taking into consideration others.

Its not always raining you know .

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Ella


Lol well I can't say Ive ever had the pleasyre of playing bingo..But I know what you mean about it being smoke free. I can actually feel the difference, I don't walk into a bar and start coughing, And I can walk out of a bar knowing that I don't smell like other peoples stale smoke. Its a good feeling.

And it is amusing watching people that do smoke having to smoke in the rain. Makes me giggle.

It's funny about Bingo players Ella

Many are women aged from 50 years old & upwards and so many smoke, it is unbelievable. I have been a few times.

It's really horrible and smoky, well not anymore

When you walk into a pub and it is smoke-free, it is wonderful and takes a bit to imagine what it is like.

It is like heaven

It is funny when you see the smokers in the rain, but we need colder weather to really, really laugh & giggle






nodisharmony

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Stu

I realise you can smoke outside and its a fair compromise. Im not arguing where and where not you can smoke , Im arguing against those ignorant folk completely against smoking without taking into consideration others.

Its not always raining you know .

It is the atitude from many smokers who just don't care about the feelings of non-smokers.

If the majority of smokers were much more considerate over the past years, we wouldn't have the ban we have today.

If someone plays music loud, they complain and environmental health sorts it out & the police too.

But Loud music is not as bad as Cigarette smoke, is it?

Nothing wrong with playing "Wannabe" by the Spice Girls for a couple of hours non-stop, is there

I know it's not always raining, but this debate has two sides and the side who has felt trodden on over the past, is now very happy in the present.






nodisharmony

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Lauren

Don't disregard my argument as buzzwords and bandwagons. It's not a bandwagon that my grandma died from smoking, it's not a buzzword that my aunty contracted lung cancer because my uncle smoked. It's a very real and dangerous thing, it's not down to someone finding a petty argument.

Well, I wasn't referring specifically to you - although I realise it may have looked that way, because I quoted you. I am honestly sorry for what happened to your grandmother and your aunt.

However, that's what I meant when I said that people are looking at this from a personal point of view, rather than seeing the whole picture. It's understandably hard for you to be objective, given what's happened to your relatives, but objectivity is what's needed.

But that was just one sentence in my post that you've quoted. What about the rest of it? What about the private members clubs banning smoking? Do you not think that should be up to the discretion of the club itself? Do you not think that allowing or banning smoking in pubs should be up to the discretion of the landlord - that way, as I said before, EVERYONE would have a choice over whether or not they were in a smoking environment.