[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

So basically what it comes down is that Linda's not allowed to stand her ground. Gotcha, I get it now.

Not at all. Sometimes it's better not to react to make the enemy appear foolish and make you appear stronger. Depends where your strengths are; I prefer to let people dig their own holes. Expends less energy.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

The part where he terrorized a widow who filed for bankruptcy and was on welfare. That's not sympathetic or relatable or funny or entertaining to me.

Terrorized a widow? Come off it. Linda had earlier told him to drop all the pretence and say what he was thinking. So when Luisa asked him why Linda had such a problem with him, Jim said she'd have to ask her, ask her about Frank Carson's dressingroom. That's not terrorizing a widow, and how on earth was he to anticipate that Linda would stage a massive over-reaction to it all?

Jim could have explained to the other housemates long before in order to put his own spin on it all, and he didn't - out of consideration to Linda's feelings and his respect for the dead. There was nothing wrong with telling Luisa to ask Linda. Linda could choose to brush it off, or explain as she liked.

It was not surprising that after she'd created such a ridiculous rumpus, and got everyone onto her side against Jim, she was sitting happily in bed bitching about something else a short time later.

[Holly Christmas]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I'm with you two,My eyeballs can see it's bullying.

Originally Posted by Zee

Linda's a bit like a dragon sitting on top of a pile of gold. The gold being her "reasons for hating Jim" - she'll never budge from her gold, she'll just terrorise Jim until he exposes her one weakness and then she's flapping about, roaring in agony and the gold all falls over. A bit like in that latest Hobbit film.

My eyeballs!!

Roaring in agony!!

I'm in absolute stitches

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by *Kate*

My eyeballs!!

Roaring in agony!!

I'm in absolute stitches

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Terrorized a widow? Come off it. Linda had earlier told him to drop all the pretence and say what he was thinking. So when Luisa asked him why Linda had such a problem with him, Jim said she'd have to ask her, ask her about Frank Carson's dressingroom. That's not terrorizing a widow, and how on earth was he to anticipate that Linda would stage a massive over-reaction to it all?

Jim could have explained to the other housemates long before in order to put his own spin on it all, and he didn't - out of consideration to Linda's feelings and his respect for the dead. There was nothing wrong with telling Luisa to ask Linda. Linda could choose to brush it off, or explain as she liked.

It was not surprising that after she'd created such a ridiculous rumpus, and got everyone onto her side against Jim, she was sitting happily in bed bitching about something else a short time later.

This is quite possibly the biggest bull**** I've EVER come across in all my years at this godforsaken forum (trust me, I've come across loads) so I'll be as succinct as possible.

It was all clearly calculated. Jim and Linda obviously know their history with each other and Jim knew that talking about the dressing room would hit a nerve. He set Luisa up, TOLD HER to ask Linda about Frank Carson's dressing room, and waited for the fireworks to explode. You're incredibly naive or biased or both if you think otherwise. Even more so if you think Linda STAGED a "massive overreaction" to her enemy humiliating her dead husband on national television.

I'm not even going to address the part where you say that this was out of consideration for Linda's feelings and respect for the dead because perhaps it could've been more considerate or respectful to, I don't know, maybe NOT EVEN BRING IT UP.

Pretty much what it comes down to is everyone expecting Linda to react a certain way. She shouldn't have bit back, she shouldn't have confronted Jim, she should've just let it go. Quite frankly, it's a situation that none of us can even relate to so it's not fair for anyone to say how Linda should've reacted. Besides, I personally find it more honorable and admirable that she let Jim know what a twat he was and told him to **** off.

It'll be interesting to see what the forums would say if Linda brought up something from Jim's past. I'm sure everyone would jump down her throat per usual, saying how dare she bring that up, would admire Jim for reacting however he chose to do so. It's the Aaron/Speidi complex where he's placed on a pedestal and simultaneously can do no wrong and everything done to him is wrong and he's the victim and the martyr.

[Z]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

This is quite possibly the biggest bull**** I've EVER come across in all my years at this godforsaken forum (trust me, I've come across loads) so I'll be as succinct as possible.

It was all clearly calculated. Jim and Linda obviously know their history with each other and Jim knew that talking about the dressing room would hit a nerve. He set Luisa up, TOLD HER to ask Linda about Frank Carson's dressing room, and waited for the fireworks to explode. You're incredibly naive or biased or both if you think otherwise. Even more so if you think Linda STAGED a "massive overreaction" to her enemy humiliating her dead husband on national television.

I'm not even going to address the part where you say that this was out of consideration for Linda's feelings and respect for the dead because perhaps it could've been more considerate or respectful to, I don't know, maybe NOT EVEN BRING IT UP.

Pretty much what it comes down to is everyone expecting Linda to react a certain way. She shouldn't have bit back, she shouldn't have confronted Jim, she should've just let it go. Quite frankly, it's a situation that none of us can even relate to so it's not fair for anyone to say how Linda should've reacted. Besides, I personally find it more honorable and admirable that she let Jim know what a twat he was and told him to **** off.

It'll be interesting to see what the forums would say if Linda brought up something from Jim's past. I'm sure everyone would jump down her throat per usual, saying how dare she bring that up, would admire Jim for reacting however he chose to do so. It's the Aaron/Speidi complex where he's placed on a pedestal and simultaneously can do no wrong and everything done to him is wrong and he's the victim and the martyr.

I have one very simple response to your post: if Linda wanted consideration for her feelings she wouldn't have been bitching about Jim and pushing him to this point for the last two and a half weeks. She wouldn't want it brought up at all. If she didn't want the shame, humiliation, embarrassment or upset of her past brought up then she shouldn't have been goading Jim or holding a grudge against him for the last twenty years. Maybe she never made peace with what her husband was caught doing. Jim is an arsehole, a misogynist, a chauvinist, a wife beater and a recovering alcoholic but that does not for one minute excuse Linda Nolan's one woman hate campaign against him, that doesn't excuse her from picking on him at every possible minute nor does it excuse her from refusing to make peace with her past in favour of moaning about Jim and trying to fight with him all the time.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

This is quite possibly the biggest bull**** I've EVER come across in all my years at this godforsaken forum (trust me, I've come across loads) so I'll be as succinct as possible.

It was all clearly calculated. Jim and Linda obviously know their history with each other and Jim knew that talking about the dressing room would hit a nerve. He set Luisa up, TOLD HER to ask Linda about Frank Carson's dressing room, and waited for the fireworks to explode. You're incredibly naive or biased or both if you think otherwise. Even more so if you think Linda STAGED a "massive overreaction" to her enemy humiliating her dead husband on national television.

I'm not even going to address the part where you say that this was out of consideration for Linda's feelings and respect for the dead because perhaps it could've been more considerate or respectful to, I don't know, maybe NOT EVEN BRING IT UP.

Pretty much what it comes down to is everyone expecting Linda to react a certain way. She shouldn't have bit back, she shouldn't have confronted Jim, she should've just let it go. Quite frankly, it's a situation that none of us can even relate to so it's not fair for anyone to say how Linda should've reacted. Besides, I personally find it more honorable and admirable that she let Jim know what a twat he was and told him to **** off.

It'll be interesting to see what the forums would say if Linda brought up something from Jim's past. I'm sure everyone would jump down her throat per usual, saying how dare she bring that up, would admire Jim for reacting however he chose to do so. It's the Aaron/Speidi complex where he's placed on a pedestal and simultaneously can do no wrong and everything done to him is wrong and he's the victim and the martyr.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, because you clearly are unable to see through Linda. I am. Of course she deliberately made that ridiculous scene in order to manipulate the housemates and viewers into siding with her against Jim. That's her thing, or hadn't you noticed that either??

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Zee

I have one very simple response to your post: if Linda wanted consideration for her feelings she wouldn't have been bitching about Jim and pushing him to this point for the last two and a half weeks. She wouldn't want it brought up at all. If she didn't want the shame, humiliation, embarrassment or upset of her past brought up then she shouldn't have been goading Jim or holding a grudge against him for the last twenty years. Maybe she never made peace with what her husband was caught doing. Jim is an arsehole, a misogynist, a chauvinist, a wife beater and a recovering alcoholic but that does not for one minute excuse Linda Nolan's one woman hate campaign against him, that doesn't excuse her from picking on him at every possible minute nor does it excuse her from refusing to make peace with her past in favour of moaning about Jim and trying to fight with him all the time.

Now I am really going to bed.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Zee

I have one very simple response to your post: if Linda wanted consideration for her feelings she wouldn't have been bitching about Jim and pushing him to this point for the last two and a half weeks. She wouldn't want it brought up at all. If she didn't want the shame, humiliation, embarrassment or upset of her past brought up then she shouldn't have been goading Jim or holding a grudge against him for the last twenty years. Maybe she never made peace with what her husband was caught doing. Jim is an arsehole, a misogynist, a chauvinist, a wife beater and a recovering alcoholic but that does not for one minute excuse Linda Nolan's one woman hate campaign against him, that doesn't excuse her from picking on him at every possible minute nor does it excuse her from refusing to make peace with her past in favour of moaning about Jim and trying to fight with him all the time.

So basically Linda's not allowed to hold a grudge with Jim Davidson. How dare that evil witch. Besides, Jim's the one who's been making incredibly patronizing and condescending comments all the time to the women. Almost every incident with Jim starts with him making an offensive comment to a woman (Linda or Luisa mainly), the woman understandably getting defensive, and then Jim muttering away about how surprise surprise, there's another argument and he's somehow in the wrong. It's incredibly irritating to watch and must be even more irritating to live with, but I'll wait for someone to tell me that Jim has freedom of speech and he's allowed to say whatever he wants to say (even though this logic would also apply to Linda and Luisa and everyone who has a problem with Jim.)

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, because you clearly are unable to see through Linda. I am. Of course she deliberately made that ridiculous scene in order to manipulate the housemates and viewers into siding with her against Jim. That's her thing, or hadn't you noticed that either??

So because I don't like national treasure Jim Davidson, I'm somehow fooled by Linda, who was understandably upset with someone she doesn't like humiliating her dead husband. Glad that's been established.

[Z]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

So basically Linda's not allowed to hold a grudge with Jim Davidson. How dare that evil witch. Besides, Jim's the one who's been making incredibly patronizing and condescending comments all the time to the women. Almost every incident with Jim starts with him making an offensive comment to a woman (Linda or Luisa mainly), the woman understandably getting defensive, and then Jim muttering away about how surprise surprise, there's another argument and he's somehow in the wrong. It's incredibly irritating to watch and must be even more irritating to live with, but I'll wait for someone to tell me that Jim has freedom of speech and he's allowed to say whatever he wants to say (even though this logic would also apply to Linda and Luisa and everyone who has a problem with Jim.)

I honestly couldn't care less if she holds a grudge against him or not, I don't know her life, all I can judge is what I see on my TV screen. What I see on my TV is Linda forming a circle around her to bitch about Jim and make him an outcast. What I see on my TV is Linda telling people that she's hated Jim for years but never actually talking about why she hates him so much. What I see on my TV is Linda being petty, because she's refused to reveal why she hates Jim, leaving him to guess and when he brings up why he thinks she hates him, she bursts into tears and still refuses to talk about it.

Luisa, Linda and Jim are all as bad as each other. Trying to make one or more of them out to be better than another is like discussing the merits of, I don't know, one serious crime against another serious crime - they're both still bad! Jim's a grumpy old man with a nasty past, yes, but he's not let any of that out in the house. Maybe he's playing a game and he's still the person he's always been - but he hasn't let his demons from the past out in the house. Do you know who has? Linda. She's held a grudge for twenty years and she hasn't been able to let it go. She brought it into the house with her as her second piece of baggage and it's been lying out there in the house for the last two and a half weeks. I don't care about what happened in their past, I care about their present, and Linda is the one looking for fights and being horrible, not Jim. Who's the one who is isolated in the house and being bitched about and who is the one surrounded by people and who is doing the bitching? And why is Linda surrounded by people? Because she keeps running her mouth about Jim without ever revealing what actually caused her to feel that way. Jim's kept a dignified silence about the whole thing, all he's ever said was "ask her about Frank Carson's dressing room" when asked by Luisa. Linda can't justify her hatred of Jim because her husband was found guilty and caught on camera.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

So basically Linda's not allowed to hold a grudge with Jim Davidson. How dare that evil witch. Besides, Jim's the one who's been making incredibly patronizing and condescending comments all the time to the women. Almost every incident with Jim starts with him making an offensive comment to a woman (Linda or Luisa mainly), the woman understandably getting defensive, and then Jim muttering away about how surprise surprise, there's another argument and he's somehow in the wrong. It's incredibly irritating to watch and must be even more irritating to live with, but I'll wait for someone to tell me that Jim has freedom of speech and he's allowed to say whatever he wants to say (even though this logic would also apply to Linda and Luisa and everyone who has a problem with Jim.)

Actually, Linda was given many opportunities by Jim to make specific complaints. I'm a woman myself, and if someone continually made offensive/patronising comments, I'd probably allow a fair few to pass, because none of us are perfect, and everyone makes remarks which undermine the opposite sex - Linda makes them too. If it began to get too much, I'd sit them down and explain why certain comments were offensive. However, unless I have missed something, I'd have to disagree that most of the incidents were because of Jim.

Can you explain how it was offensive when Dappy went into the bedroom and told people that Jim wanted to go to bed? Because that was one of the many occasions when Linda loudly made an unnecessarily nasty remark aimed at Jim.

Anther time, Luisa was chatting about being a single parent, and Jim asked if she didn't miss having a man in her life (or something to that effect.) Linda went straight for his jugular with a foul-mouthed stream of insults which were totally uncalled for in the face of a perfectly legitimate conversational query.

If a woman (or anyone else) wishes to be treated with respect, maybe she should think about how best to earn it.

So because I don't like national treasure Jim Davidson, I'm somehow fooled by Linda, who was understandably upset with someone she doesn't like humiliating her dead husband. Glad that's been established.

I didn't mention anything about your personal feelings about Jim. But perhaps it does explain your inability to be objective and fair.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Zee

I honestly couldn't care less if she holds a grudge against him or not, I don't know her life, all I can judge is what I see on my TV screen. What I see on my TV is Linda forming a circle around her to bitch about Jim and make him an outcast. What I see on my TV is Linda telling people that she's hated Jim for years but never actually talking about why she hates him so much. What I see on my TV is Linda being petty, because she's refused to reveal why she hates Jim, leaving him to guess and when he brings up why he thinks she hates him, she bursts into tears and still refuses to talk about it.

Luisa, Linda and Jim are all as bad as each other. Trying to make one or more of them out to be better than another is like discussing the merits of, I don't know, one serious crime against another serious crime - they're both still bad! Jim's a grumpy old man with a nasty past, yes, but he's not let any of that out in the house. Maybe he's playing a game and he's still the person he's always been - but he hasn't let his demons from the past out in the house. Do you know who has? Linda. She's held a grudge for twenty years and she hasn't been able to let it go. She brought it into the house with her as her second piece of baggage and it's been lying out there in the house for the last two and a half weeks. I don't care about what happened in their past, I care about their present, and Linda is the one looking for fights and being horrible, not Jim. Who's the one who is isolated in the house and being bitched about and who is the one surrounded by people and who is doing the bitching? And why is Linda surrounded by people? Because she keeps running her mouth about Jim without ever revealing what actually caused her to feel that way. Jim's kept a dignified silence about the whole thing, all he's ever said was "ask her about Frank Carson's dressing room" when asked by Luisa. Linda can't justify her hatred of Jim because her husband was found guilty and caught on camera.

Jim's done enough to make himself an outcast. Like I said, he constantly makes patronizing and condescending comments to women and sets himself up to be the victim when they react defensively to something he said. It's comments about Luisa not having a man in her life, how she doesn't have to spank her daughter, telling her to shut up and enjoy her argument, implying that she apologized without actually being sorry, and only wanting to cook for the men that make people not like him. Casey's the only girl who hasn't nominated him (the others have all nominated him twice) and Ollie and Lee have nominated him as well. People not liking Jim Davidson of all people don't make him a victim or a martyr, especially when all the girls who he's patronized have good reason to not like him.

You said that Linda's petty for not revealing her past history with Jim, but you said it yourself that you couldn't care less if she holds a grudge? That seems contradictory to me, and I don't see how Linda revealing her past history with Jim makes a difference. There's clearly a lot of history between them and it comes from a place of very deep-seated resentment. I don't think there's an obligation Linda to have to explain everything and relive what is obviously a traumatic past between them.

Again, it's extremely foolish to say that Jim doesn't know why Linda hates her and act like he was innocently inquiring if it had to do with Frank Carson's dressing room. He knew exactly what he was doing it and it was entirely calculated. He deliberately set Luisa up to inquire about an incident involving Linda's dead husband to upset her tremendously, and then pretend that it never happened. It's extremely malicious and underhanded and really is one of the slimiest, grossest things I've ever seen on this program.

I've heard different stories about Jim's involvement in the whole thing (that he was the one implemented the hidden camera, that he threatened to beat Linda's husband up over the thing, among other stories), but if we want to talk about pettiness I think him taking those actions to get someone arrested over 20 or 25 pounds is incredibly petty. Just my two cents.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Actually, Linda was given many opportunities by Jim to make specific complaints. I'm a woman myself, and if someone continually made offensive/patronising comments, I'd probably allow a fair few to pass, because none of us are perfect, and everyone makes remarks which undermine the opposite sex - Linda makes them too. If it began to get too much, I'd sit them down and explain why certain comments were offensive. However, unless I have missed something, I'd have to disagree that most of the incidents were because of Jim.

Can you explain how it was offensive when Dappy went into the bedroom and told people that Jim wanted to go to bed? Because that was one of the many occasions when Linda loudly made an unnecessarily nasty remark aimed at Jim.

Anther time, Luisa was chatting about being a single parent, and Jim asked if she didn't miss having a man in her life (or something to that effect.) Linda went straight for his jugular with a foul-mouthed stream of insults which were totally uncalled for in the face of a perfectly legitimate conversational query.

If a woman (or anyone else) wishes to be treated with respect, maybe she should think about how best to earn it.



I didn't mention anything about your personal feelings about Jim. But perhaps it does explain your inability to be objective and fair.

Well if you're a woman yourself and you'd accept a few patronizing comments from a known sexist that's quite a shame isn't it.

Linda said that it would do them all a favor if Jim left. That's not nearly as loud or unnecessarily nasty as you try to make it out to be, but everything seems to be slanted with you. Considering that nearly three quarters of the house has nominated Jim her comment doesn't seem to be that far from the truth. He's a mopey sad sack who makes everything a wounded production with how he's the victim being treated so poorly. Luckily people inside the house have his number.

Jim asked Luisa if it really doesn't bother her not having a man when she was talking about living in a fairy world with her daughter with his arms crossed and a sharp tone. It was out of the blue and completely unnecessary, implying that she'd be much better off with a man in her life (which isn't surprising at all coming from a misogynist is it?) All Linda said was that that was a Jim moment. That is not a foul-mouthed stream of insults that were totally uncalled for (quite frankly Jim needs someone questioning him) and that was not going straight for the jugular. It's sad that a woman like yourself finds that a perfectly legitimate conversational query.

and lol @ you saying that I'm the one unable to be objective and fair when there's the entirety of your last post. That's a laugh.

[reece(:]

If only troy's views echoed the rest of the country~

[Z]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

Jim's done enough to make himself an outcast. Like I said, he constantly makes patronizing and condescending comments to women and sets himself up to be the victim when they react defensively to something he said. It's comments about Luisa not having a man in her life, how she doesn't have to spank her daughter, telling her to shut up and enjoy her argument, implying that she apologized without actually being sorry, and only wanting to cook for the men that make people not like him. Casey's the only girl who hasn't nominated him (the others have all nominated him twice) and Ollie and Lee have nominated him as well. People not liking Jim Davidson of all people don't make him a victim or a martyr, especially when all the girls who he's patronized have good reason to not like him.

You said that Linda's petty for not revealing her past history with Jim, but you said it yourself that you couldn't care less if she holds a grudge? That seems contradictory to me, and I don't see how Linda revealing her past history with Jim makes a difference. There's clearly a lot of history between them and it comes from a place of very deep-seated resentment. I don't think there's an obligation Linda to have to explain everything and relive what is obviously a traumatic past between them.

Again, it's extremely foolish to say that Jim doesn't know why Linda hates her and act like he was innocently inquiring if it had to do with Frank Carson's dressing room. He knew exactly what he was doing it and it was entirely calculated. He deliberately set Luisa up to inquire about an incident involving Linda's dead husband to upset her tremendously, and then pretend that it never happened. It's extremely malicious and underhanded and really is one of the slimiest, grossest things I've ever seen on this program.

I've heard different stories about Jim's involvement in the whole thing (that he was the one implemented the hidden camera, that he threatened to beat Linda's husband up over the thing, among other stories), but if we want to talk about pettiness I think him taking those actions to get someone arrested over 20 or 25 pounds is incredibly petty. Just my two cents.

In my opinion, Linda made a point of turning everyone against Jim before he ever displayed any kind of behaviour that could possibly be misconstrued as misogynistic. People nominating him and being female doesn't prove anything other than the fact they all dislike him, because they're all part of the group that Linda has built around herself? Luisa made patronising and condescending comments about Dappy's intelligence, what's your point? They're as bad as each other. Just because you don't like Jim doesn't mean he deserves to be picked on. Life is not that black and white.

I don't care if Linda holds a grudge against Jim, she can do what she likes with her life, as I said, I'm judging by what I see on my TV and what I see is Linda aggressively skirting around why she hates Jim in order to get other people to hate him too but without ever acknowledging why she hates him. If she doesn't want it out in the open then why is she bringing it up at all? I think she wants closure on the whole thing, really, I think she wants to talk about it with Jim so she can put the whole thing to rest because clearly it's been winding her up for the last two decades. There is no obligation for Linda to clarify why she hates him, but if she's going to willingly bring it to our attention as viewers then it is to be expected that she will be perceived as bitchy and irrational if she won't reveal why she hates him so much.

Why am I foolish for "not seeing" that Jim was doing it on purpose? Linda wouldn't tell Luisa (or anyone) why she hates Jim so much so Luisa asked Jim and he told her to go ask Linda if it was about Frank Carson. Linda was angry and Jim realised his mistake straight away and first tried to pretend he didn't say it and then tried to apologise because where else would Luisa have gotten that information. Jim IS slimey and he IS horrible but so is Linda! What was the need for all the hysteria and crying? If that IS why she hates Jim so much then it's obviously been playing on her mind the entire time she's been in there or the mention of a bloody dressing room wouldn't have set her off into tears. And if that isn't why she hates Jim, then why did it upset her? So it clearly is why she hates him - so why would she have this agenda of actively hating him in the house if she wasn't prepared for it to eventually be brought up? What exactly are her motivations? Revenge. She wants to get revenge on Jim for embarrassing her all those years ago by making him look awful. I get it, I really do, but in the context of the Big Brother house, it makes her look spiteful and creates sympathy for Jim which is precisely why people have been supporting him. I think just about every Jim supporter I've come across on here has said at one time or another that they thought they would hate him but events in the house have changed their mind. Not because of Jim himself, but everyone around him trying to set off the guy with the spousal abuse in his past.

I've tried on numerous occasions to discuss this in a balanced way which I think is much more conducive to discussing Jim and Linda rather than trying to make Linda out to be a victim and Jim to be some kind of horrible bully when she's the one with the clique of people bloc voting on her behalf over some decades old feud that she doesn't even have the decency to explain to any of them?

Also, it wasn't "just" 20 or 25 pounds, Linda's husband was caught stealing money from the charity collection as part of a series of incidents, not one isolated incident, why on earth would there have been a secret camera filming the room if there had been no prior reason for one to be installed?

[Videostar]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Not at all. Sometimes it's better not to react to make the enemy appear foolish and make you appear stronger. Depends where your strengths are; I prefer to let people dig their own holes. Expends less energy.

Which is what Linda's been doing for weeks now, Jim's done well to walk away from her.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Zee

In my opinion, Linda made a point of turning everyone against Jim before he ever displayed any kind of behaviour that could possibly be misconstrued as misogynistic. People nominating him and being female doesn't prove anything other than the fact they all dislike him, because they're all part of the group that Linda has built around herself? Luisa made patronising and condescending comments about Dappy's intelligence, what's your point? They're as bad as each other. Just because you don't like Jim doesn't mean he deserves to be picked on. Life is not that black and white.

I don't care if Linda holds a grudge against Jim, she can do what she likes with her life, as I said, I'm judging by what I see on my TV and what I see is Linda aggressively skirting around why she hates Jim in order to get other people to hate him too but without ever acknowledging why she hates him. If she doesn't want it out in the open then why is she bringing it up at all? I think she wants closure on the whole thing, really, I think she wants to talk about it with Jim so she can put the whole thing to rest because clearly it's been winding her up for the last two decades. There is no obligation for Linda to clarify why she hates him, but if she's going to willingly bring it to our attention as viewers then it is to be expected that she will be perceived as bitchy and irrational if she won't reveal why she hates him so much.

Why am I foolish for "not seeing" that Jim was doing it on purpose? Linda wouldn't tell Luisa (or anyone) why she hates Jim so much so Luisa asked Jim and he told her to go ask Linda if it was about Frank Carson. Linda was angry and Jim realised his mistake straight away and first tried to pretend he didn't say it and then tried to apologise because where else would Luisa have gotten that information. Jim IS slimey and he IS horrible but so is Linda! What was the need for all the hysteria and crying? If that IS why she hates Jim so much then it's obviously been playing on her mind the entire time she's been in there or the mention of a bloody dressing room wouldn't have set her off into tears. And if that isn't why she hates Jim, then why did it upset her? So it clearly is why she hates him - so why would she have this agenda of actively hating him in the house if she wasn't prepared for it to eventually be brought up? What exactly are her motivations? Revenge. She wants to get revenge on Jim for embarrassing her all those years ago by making him look awful. I get it, I really do, but in the context of the Big Brother house, it makes her look spiteful and creates sympathy for Jim which is precisely why people have been supporting him. I think just about every Jim supporter I've come across on here has said at one time or another that they thought they would hate him but events in the house have changed their mind. Not because of Jim himself, but everyone around him trying to set off the guy with the spousal abuse in his past.

I've tried on numerous occasions to discuss this in a balanced way which I think is much more conducive to discussing Jim and Linda rather than trying to make Linda out to be a victim and Jim to be some kind of horrible bully when she's the one with the clique of people bloc voting on her behalf over some decades old feud that she doesn't even have the decency to explain to any of them?

Also, it wasn't "just" 20 or 25 pounds, Linda's husband was caught stealing money from the charity collection as part of a series of incidents, not one isolated incident, why on earth would there have been a secret camera filming the room if there had been no prior reason for one to be installed?

I never said Jim deserved to get picked on, or that he's even getting picked on. What I'm saying is that making comments to get others to react is setting yourself up to be ostracized. That doesn't make you a victim, that doesn't mean that you're getting picked on, and that certainly doesn't mean you're being bullied.

If Jim wanted to know why Linda hated him that badly he could've asked himself. Instead, he set the trap through Luisa to because Jim avoids confrontation and wanted her to take the fall for it instead. Once he got called out on it, he first denied it, then followed Linda into the bedroom and said that Frank Carson's a good old friend of theirs, asked Linda if she wants to tell him what SHE'S insinuating (because again, Jim's the martyr taking the fall for something Linda did in his twisted perception of reality), told Luisa that it wasn't wise of her to do exactly what he told her to do, and then came back and asked how this all could've happened from his comment about Frank Carson's dressing room. It wasn't until the next morning he gave an (extremely half-hearted) apology. I don't see how anyone can pretend that Jim doesn't know where her hatred is coming from when he's pinpointing it to a very specific incident. Even moreso, I don't see how anyone can ask what the need for "all the hysteria and crying" was when the whole incident was very traumatic to Linda. Jim brought it up to humiliate her dead husband so I don't see how her reaction was unwarranted. Her husband's dead, one of her sister is dead, she's a cancer survivor, she's had a fair share of financial problems, and there's probably a lot more that I don't know about. She's had an extremely tough life and Jim getting someone else to bring up something that obviously caused her a lot of grief and trauma is obviously going to warrant a tearful reaction. I honestly don't see how anyone can hold that against her.

And like I said, I don't know the full details of Frank Carson's dressing room and have heard many varying, conflicting stories about Jim's involvement so who knows.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

Jim's done enough to make himself an outcast. Like I said, he constantly makes patronizing and condescending comments to women and sets himself up to be the victim when they react defensively to something he said. It's comments about Luisa not having a man in her life, how she doesn't have to spank her daughter, telling her to shut up and enjoy her argument, implying that she apologized without actually being sorry, and only wanting to cook for the men that make people not like him.

What's wrong with asking someone if they don't miss having a partner? What is wrong with discussing different parenting styles and views on spanking? Where did you see Jim stating that he only wanted to cook for the men? I remember Luisa saying she didn't want to cook for certain people, but insisting on cooking for others, so Jim suggested that someone different cook for the men, just so it didn't get too petty. So what? How is that offensive?

Casey's the only girl who hasn't nominated him (the others have all nominated him twice) and Ollie and Lee have nominated him as well. People not liking Jim Davidson of all people don't make him a victim or a martyr, especially when all the girls who he's patronized have good reason to not like him.

What have the nominations got to do with anything? Just about everyone seems to nominate Liz too, and she's nothing like Jim.

You said that Linda's petty for not revealing her past history with Jim, but you said it yourself that you couldn't care less if she holds a grudge? That seems contradictory to me, and I don't see how Linda revealing her past history with Jim makes a difference. There's clearly a lot of history between them and it comes from a place of very deep-seated resentment. I don't think there's an obligation Linda to have to explain everything and relive what is obviously a traumatic past between them.

I think you're mixing me up with another poster, because I didn't say those things. I disagree with you that anyone should think themself entitled to subject anyone to relentless bitching, carping and nastiness without giving an explanation when asked by the person involved. If Linda felt that strongly about Jim, then she shouldn't have come into the house. She could have asked to defer her invitation until the next show.

Again, it's extremely foolish to say that Jim doesn't know why Linda hates her and act like he was innocently inquiring if it had to do with Frank Carson's dressing room. He knew exactly what he was doing it and it was entirely calculated. He deliberately set Luisa up to inquire about an incident involving Linda's dead husband to upset her tremendously, and then pretend that it never happened. It's extremely malicious and underhanded and really is one of the slimiest, grossest things I've ever seen on this program.

Oh for goodness' sake. Luisa was asking why Linda was being so foul towards him, and he simply said she'd have to ask Linda. Then, he said to ask about Frank Carson's dressingroom. What's the big deal? How is that malicious and underhand? Linda's a blinking battleaxe and as hard as nails. Once she'd got a nice big group on her bed, she was back bitching about something else. As far as Jim appearing to backtrack and deny that he'd said to Luisa to ask about the dressingroom, we don't know what was going on in his head, but if, as it appeared, he was trying to wriggle out of responsibility, then he wouldn't be the first person to tell a porky pie to avoid a scene.

I've heard different stories about Jim's involvement in the whole thing (that he was the one implemented the hidden camera, that he threatened to beat Linda's husband up over the thing, among other stories), but if we want to talk about pettiness I think him taking those actions to get someone arrested over 20 or 25 pounds is incredibly petty. Just my two cents.

If you don't know the circumstances then who are you to judge? Surely, however, common sense must tell you that if someone has gone to the lengths of installing a secret camera then it wasn't a single incident, but one of a series of thefts. It's not petty to involve the police in the case of stealing money. Perhaps by doing so it might stop the culprit from moving on to more serious amounts of money.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

If Jim wanted to know why Linda hated him that badly he could've asked himself.

He did! Are you not reading any of the replies in this thread??

Like I said, he constantly makes patronizing and condescending comments to women and sets himself up to be the victim when they react defensively to something he said

Well, so far you have provided me with several examples of what you think are patronising and condescending comments, and I disgree that they are.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

He did! Are you not reading any of the replies in this thread??

Sending Luisa to ask about Frank Carson's dressing room isn't the same as asking himself. And like I said, if he was able to pinpoint it to a specific incident he clearly knew where all the hate was bubbling from.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Well, so far you have provided me with several examples of what you think are patronising and condescending comments, and I disgree that they are.

Well the recipients of those comments found them quite patronizing and condescending as well, so your take on the matter is irrelevant.

[Kizzy]

He's ostracised himself, and made plenty of snide comments too. It's a lost cause trying to make folk aware of that... It's gotten to the point where if he punched her in the gob some would say she'd flung her face in front of his fist

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Zee

In my opinion, Linda made a point of turning everyone against Jim before he ever displayed any kind of behaviour that could possibly be misconstrued as misogynistic. People nominating him and being female doesn't prove anything other than the fact they all dislike him, because they're all part of the group that Linda has built around herself? Luisa made patronising and condescending comments about Dappy's intelligence, what's your point? They're as bad as each other. Just because you don't like Jim doesn't mean he deserves to be picked on. Life is not that black and white.

I don't care if Linda holds a grudge against Jim, she can do what she likes with her life, as I said, I'm judging by what I see on my TV and what I see is Linda aggressively skirting around why she hates Jim in order to get other people to hate him too but without ever acknowledging why she hates him. If she doesn't want it out in the open then why is she bringing it up at all? I think she wants closure on the whole thing, really, I think she wants to talk about it with Jim so she can put the whole thing to rest because clearly it's been winding her up for the last two decades. There is no obligation for Linda to clarify why she hates him, but if she's going to willingly bring it to our attention as viewers then it is to be expected that she will be perceived as bitchy and irrational if she won't reveal why she hates him so much.

Why am I foolish for "not seeing" that Jim was doing it on purpose? Linda wouldn't tell Luisa (or anyone) why she hates Jim so much so Luisa asked Jim and he told her to go ask Linda if it was about Frank Carson. Linda was angry and Jim realised his mistake straight away and first tried to pretend he didn't say it and then tried to apologise because where else would Luisa have gotten that information. Jim IS slimey and he IS horrible but so is Linda! What was the need for all the hysteria and crying? If that IS why she hates Jim so much then it's obviously been playing on her mind the entire time she's been in there or the mention of a bloody dressing room wouldn't have set her off into tears. And if that isn't why she hates Jim, then why did it upset her? So it clearly is why she hates him - so why would she have this agenda of actively hating him in the house if she wasn't prepared for it to eventually be brought up? What exactly are her motivations? Revenge. She wants to get revenge on Jim for embarrassing her all those years ago by making him look awful. I get it, I really do, but in the context of the Big Brother house, it makes her look spiteful and creates sympathy for Jim which is precisely why people have been supporting him. I think just about every Jim supporter I've come across on here has said at one time or another that they thought they would hate him but events in the house have changed their mind. Not because of Jim himself, but everyone around him trying to set off the guy with the spousal abuse in his past.

I've tried on numerous occasions to discuss this in a balanced way which I think is much more conducive to discussing Jim and Linda rather than trying to make Linda out to be a victim and Jim to be some kind of horrible bully when she's the one with the clique of people bloc voting on her behalf over some decades old feud that she doesn't even have the decency to explain to any of them?

Also, it wasn't "just" 20 or 25 pounds, Linda's husband was caught stealing money from the charity collection as part of a series of incidents, not one isolated incident, why on earth would there have been a secret camera filming the room if there had been no prior reason for one to be installed?

Wow - what a wonderful post.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

Sending Luisa to ask about Frank Carson's dressing room isn't the same as asking himself. And like I said, if he was able to pinpoint it to a specific incident he clearly knew where all the hate was bubbling from.

Well the recipients of those comments found them quite patronizing and condescending as well, so your take on the matter is irrelevant.

Jim didn't 'send Luisa to ask'. He told Luisa that if she wanted to know, then she'd have to ask Linda herself. There is a subtle difference there, and I think that is why Jim initially denied Linda's first accusations - because she wasn't actually getting it right.

Since you cannot read minds, you cannot tell if the recipients of these comments found them patronising and conscending or not, because they didn't say. However, the only people who'd find such innocuous comments to be patronising or condescending would be people who have an enormous chip on their shoulder, or an inferiority complex.

[Kizzy]

He's a wily old git, take what he did tonight to casey for instance... that was horrid and she was gutted, he humiliated her and he and lee were laughing like drains about it with a total disregard for her feelings.
Casey really likes him too, so he wasn't retaliating there was he? just being a rude nasty old drunk.
The Paula Thompson interview with him in the Daily Echo proves he only thinks of women as T&A.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

What's wrong with asking someone if they don't miss having a partner? What is wrong with discussing different parenting styles and views on spanking? Where did you see Jim stating that he only wanted to cook for the men? I remember Luisa saying she didn't want to cook for certain people, but insisting on cooking for others, so Jim suggested that someone different cook for the men, just so it didn't get too petty. So what? How is that offensive?

Luisa wasn't even talking about being a single mother and Jim's comment implied that she needed one. He surely wouldn't ask a single father if they miss having a woman. The sexism was clear as day when he turned Luisa not wanting to cook for him and Lionel into him offering to cook for the men only.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

What have the nominations got to do with anything? Just about everyone seems to nominate Liz too, and she's nothing like Jim.

Well, they show that Linda's far from the only one sick of Jim.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

If Linda felt that strongly about Jim, then she shouldn't have come into the house. She could have asked to defer her invitation until the next show.

Did she have any way of knowing Jim would be going in there?

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Oh for goodness' sake. Luisa was asking why Linda was being so foul towards him, and he simply said she'd have to ask Linda. Then, he said to ask about Frank Carson's dressingroom. What's the big deal? How is that malicious and underhand? Linda's a blinking battleaxe and as hard as nails. Once she'd got a nice big group on her bed, she was back bitching about something else. As far as Jim appearing to backtrack and deny that he'd said to Luisa to ask about the dressingroom, we don't know what was going on in his head, but if, as it appeared, he was trying to wriggle out of responsibility, then he wouldn't be the first person to tell a porky pie to avoid a scene.

It's malicious and underhanded because brought it up to humiliate her deceased husband. How many times does that have to be stated before you get it?

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Jim didn't 'send Luisa to ask'. He told Luisa that if she wanted to know, then she'd have to ask Linda herself. There is a subtle difference there, and I think that is why Jim initially denied Linda's first accusations - because she wasn't actually getting it right.

His exact words were "You should ask her. Ask her about Frank Carson's dressing room." Which is exactly what Linda accused him of doing. Your fan fiction does have a nice spin to it though, I'll give you that.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Since you cannot read minds, you cannot tell if the recipients of these comments found them patronising and conscending or not, because they didn't say. However, the only people who'd find such innocuous comments to be patronising or condescending would be people who have an enormous chip on their shoulder, or an inferiority complex.

If they didn't find them patronizing or condescending, they wouldn't have reacted the way they did. And they actual value themselves as women so they're not going to let a known misogynist make subtle and sly digs at them.