[Z]

I think nuclear bombing Japan twice is a gigantic step too far regardless of how the Japanese chose to treat prisoners of war. Disagree with me by all means, but I don't think any amount of reading personal accounts of torture would change my mind about that - the actions of the Japanese military towards prisoners of war do not justify causing hundreds of thousands of deaths and causing damage to generations of people and irradiating entire cities.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Zee

I think nuclear bombing Japan twice is a gigantic step too far regardless of how the Japanese chose to treat prisoners of war. Disagree with me by all means, but I don't think any amount of reading personal accounts of torture would change my mind about that - the actions of the Japanese military towards prisoners of war do not justify causing hundreds of thousands of deaths and causing damage to generations of people and irradiating entire cities.

Which is why I said look more into it. It wasn't just a couple of POWs.

Like I said to Dezzy, if they'd known then what we know now... it would have been different. Germany gassed 6 million of my people, and people still whine about Dresden being bombed, despite the fact Jewish slave workers who could have been killed any minute were cheering while the bombs dropped.

It's all well and good sitting in the comfort and safety of a home other people died to keep free, and say we were wrong.

Isn't that what history is about? If you can't look at things objectively 70 years after the event, and reach a conclusion based on right or wrong, then the old line about failing to learn from history, means were bound to repeat the same mistakes, holds true.

Why isn't the goal to be better, rather than at the same level?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Isn't that what history is about? If you can't look at things objectively 70 years after the event, and reach a conclusion based on right or wrong, then the old line about failing to learn from history, means were bound to repeat the same mistakes, holds true.

Why isn't the goal to be better, rather than at the same level?

can't look at history objectively? you won't even let us look at history PERIOD without bitching about terminology and semantics.

Look who's talking.

and we don't have to try to be better, We're already better. That's the point you don't understand. You don't understand how good you have it dude.

Originally Posted by lostalex

can't look at history objectively? you won't even let us look at history PERIOD without bitching about terminology and semantics.

Look who's talking.

and we don't have to try to be better, We're already better. That's the point you don't understand. You don't understand how good you have it dude.

You're better than that reply. I know that much.

The only thing I've really stated repeatedly in this thread is that you can't assign traits that don't exist (like evil) to a whole nation of people.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Livia

Which is why I said look more into it. It wasn't just a couple of POWs.

Like I said to Dezzy, if they'd known then what we know now... it would have been different. Germany gassed 6 million of my people, and people still whine about Dresden being bombed, despite the fact Jewish slave workers who could have been killed any minute were cheering while the bombs dropped.

It's all well and good sitting in the comfort and safety of a home other people died to keep free, and say we were wrong.

I'm well aware it wasn't just a couple of POWs. Of course it's all good and well for me to say I think it's wrong to nuclear bomb innocent civilians, I didn't live through World War II, but my opinion is that it was wrong to do so. I would hate to see another nuclear bomb be dropped anywhere in the world ever again. Looking at pictures and reading interviews with hibakusha in Japan is just tragic on so many levels; these people are outcast in society for something that they had nothing to do with, I don't know how anyone can say that people deserve to be nuclear bombed, I mean it's just cruel. Obviously at the time emotions were running high and the war had been long and arduous and this was America's big secret weapon coming to fruition but to me it just came across as the ultimate muscle flexing exercise in modern history, it was unnecessary and vicious.

[arista]

"Japan did some terrible things but what# we did to those two cities can never be justified. "


Yes but those Atomic Bombs got finished
with Hitlers Science men - who then became USA Citizens
it was a Rush as the Americans wanted real Big Tests done
before Russia built theirs

[lostalex]

I want the people that think all countries are equal to actually go live in some other countries.

Go live in Russia, or Cuba, or China, or any communist country, and then come back and tell me that we are all the same, that we are all equal.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

We are not all equal, we are better.

[arista]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I want the people that think all countries are equal to actually go live in some other countries.

Go live in Russia, or Cuba, or China, or any communist country, and then come back and tell me that we are all the same, that we are all equal.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

We are not all equal, we are better.

true

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I want the people that think all countries are equal to actually go live in some other countries.

Go live in Russia, or Cuba, or China, or any communist country, and then come back and tell me that we are all the same, that we are all equal.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

We are not all equal, we are better.

No one ever said we were equal? I'm just saying that no one came away squeaky clean after WW2, both sides committed atrocities.

[Z]

It'd be like claiming everyone from France is a pervert because they're French or everyone from Norway is a psychopath because they're from Norway. I don't understand why you would believe in that logic.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Zee

It'd be like claiming everyone from France is a pervert because they're French or everyone from Norway is a psychopath because they're from Norway. I don't understand why you would believe in that logic.

as an American i'm used to being generalized about, and guess what, all of the generalizations, although not true for ME, still have some truth to them and most of the topics are to do with things that are worth having conversations aout in america...

American stereotypes... obesity, gun laws, foreign policy, all things that are worth talking about. there are ways of talking about things in a general sense in a respectful way,. just because every American doesn't own a gun doesn't mean that we can't tok about America's gun laws.

I could just shut down every conversation by saying,. NOT ALL AMERICANS OWN GUNS! i don't own a gun, i've never seen someone use a gun or threaten anyone with a gun, but i can still have a conversation with someone about gun laws in America without immediately shutting them down screaming about how dare you generalize about me!

IT's okay to talk about issues and use generalizations if you do it in a respectful way/

[Z]

Originally Posted by lostalex

as an American i'm used to being generalized about, and guess what, all of the generalizations, although not true for ME, still have some truth to them and most of the topics are to do with things that are worth having conversations aout in america...

American stereotypes... obesity, gun laws, foreign policy, all things that are worth talking about. there are ways of talking about things in a general sense in a respectful way,. just because every American doesn't own a gun doesn't mean that we can't tok about America's gun laws.

I could just shut down every conversation by saying,. NOT ALL AMERICANS OWN GUNS!

There's a huge difference between generalising about mindsets ("Japanese people are evil") and actual issues ("America has a problem with obesity/guns") - do you not see the difference? Are you the same as every other American? No, you're you and everybody else is everybody else. There might be some aspects of your personality and outlook on life that are shaped by your nationality, which would in this case explain why so many Japanese soldiers committed acts of cruelty in WWII, but that doesn't mean all Japanese people are uninitiated psychopaths just waiting for an unfortunate Westerner to turn their back so they can torture them... And especially to judge a country based on something that happened 70+ years ago is a bit ridiculous; are all Germans Nazis right now in 2014? No. The world has moved on, it's a very different country now. Were all Germans ever Nazis? No, the Nazis were a political party, they had supporters and they had people who disagreed with them.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Zee

There's a huge difference between generalising about mindsets ("Japanese people are evil") and actual issues ("America has a problem with obesity/guns") - do you not see the difference? Are you the same as every other American? No, you're you and everybody else is everybody else. There might be some aspects of your personality and outlook on life that are shaped by your nationality, which would in this case explain why so many Japanese soldiers committed acts of cruelty in WWII, but that doesn't mean all Japanese people are uninitiated psychopaths just waiting for an unfortunate Westerner to turn their back so they can torture them... And especially to judge a country based on something that happened 70+ years ago is a bit ridiculous; are all Germans Nazis right now in 2014? No. The world has moved on, it's a very different country now. Were all Germans ever Nazis? No, the Nazis were a political party, they had supporters and they had people who disagreed with them.

Who said Japanese people were evil? Say their name, because it would be racist to say that and you should report anyone who said that. No one said that. There's a difference between saying Japan's actions in ww2 were evil vs. Japanese people are evil.

You(not only you) are the one manipulating everything said about Japan's actions and behaviors as a nation, into personalized attacks on Japanese people, and it's obnoxious.

[Z]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Who said Japanese people were evil? Say their name, because it would be racist to say that and you should report anyone who said that. No one said that. There's a difference between saying Japan's actions in ww2 were evil vs. Japanese people are evil.

You(not only you) are the one manipulating everything said about Japan's actions and behaviors as a nation, into personalized attacks on Japanese people, and it's obnoxious.

How did this get flipped round onto me when I've been the one saying it's not fair to generalise people exactly? I'm saying it's wrong to generalise an entire nation of people and claim they all think the same way or believe the same things because of their nationality.

[Kizzy]

If you want to be fastidious modern day Americans decend from Europeans I guess.
Anyhow.... Is what our government is doing to denigrate the 'underclass' in this country an example of the
Stanford prison experiment?
'Them' and 'us'... divide and conquer, old..infirm, incompetant, incapacitated = drain on resources surplus to requirements.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you want to be fastidious modern day Americans decend from Europeans I guess.
Anyhow.... Is what our government is doing to denigrate the 'underclass' in this country an example of the
Stanford prison experiment?
'Them' and 'us'... divide and conquer, old..infirm, incompetant, incapacitated = drain on resources surplus to requirements.

Who are you talking to?