[Shaun]

I think it's futile arguing that the word should be "forgotten" or "not used any more" because words aren't "forgotten", especially when they carry such weight.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I think it's futile arguing that the word should be "forgotten" or "not used any more" because words aren't "forgotten", especially when they carry such weight.

Which is why words need to be shaped to mean something else. I think the n word has a long way to go before it reaches that level and part of the problem is the (understandly) defensive nature that rests over who is and isn't allowed to use the word. By reclaiming it only for a certain group of people, it means for everyone outside of that group the word remains taboo but has a new edge to it because it no longer means just one thing which just makes it more confusing, not clearer.

[Ninastar]

I agree with what you're saying Zee. i just wish i could put it into words as well as you do

Originally Posted by Zee

But I don't think it's been adequately disarmed. Within the black community, some black people now use it as a term more along the lines of comrade, friend, brother; but as it's not accepted widely (by virtue of it being exclusively okay for black people to use) the word is therefore still loaded and now it's not clear what it means and depends completely on context and perception. That girl got kicked out of Big Brother for saying the n word despite not using it in a hostile, offensive way which I think sums up the entire problem - it's not clear what the word really means anymore. It's all good and well saying white people shouldn't go near the word as it is, because they shouldn't, but it doesn't help to remove the problematic nature of the word itself.

The fact that black people use it with each other, and are not having it shouted at them constantly whilst being whipped, means the word is being automatically disarmed, added to the fact it is no longer (rightfully) used in any relationship between white and black people.

I don't know why it's such a big issue for us honkeys to try and retain some control over the context and parameters of the word, and if we don't get those privileges, automatically claim it's not fair.

[Shaun]

I always feel awkward when singing (lol) along to songs that use it but I think that's the only instance I've ever felt the need to say it (because then I'm just quoting someone else).

[smeagol]

no one should be allowed to say it , i think its pathetic people jumping up and down screaming people are racist but then they go and use that word themselves then wonder why theres racist people.
There is no reclaiming the word its just a excuse to cause a divide and be different but whats ironic is it took how many to be treated the same. talk about undoing good.
There will never be one world all the time people are finding ways to cause divides.

i find it offensive in every way.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by InOne

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

this sums it up

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

The fact that black people use it with each other, and are not having it shouted at them constantly whilst being whipped, means the word is being automatically disarmed, added to the fact it is no longer (rightfully) used in any relationship between white and black people.

I don't know why it's such a big issue for us honkeys to try and retain some control over the context and parameters of the word, and if we don't get those privileges, automatically claim it's not fair.

I'm not saying anything about it being fair or unfair, I'm saying that the word has not been disarmed because it hasn't been. Not all black people are comfortable with using the word because, just like when white people use it, the word conjures up historical grievances that the world has slowly started to move on from. Throwing the word around now without really doing anything to change its meaning to something positive is stalling progress, in my opinion. All it would take is a popular movement to take off to redefine the word, officially, to mean 'friend', a positive campaign that takes the edge off the word. But really, I think the word should be laid to rest. That won't happen of course, it's entered the vernacular of several music genres which ensures the word isn't going anywhere any time soon, but I think that constantly using it without really defining what it means and continuing to have an us vs them attitude with regards to the word is just prolonging the problem when the guilty party has tried its best to make the word taboo and drum it into people that it is no longer okay to use the word. If there is no context and there are no parameters over what the word means, it ensures that the problem continues to exist.

[Kizzy]

I feel that way too zee, it appears it's still rubbing salt into so many wounds and the 'reclaiming' of the word isn't about positivity or strength but highlighting the division that generationally no longer exists.

[Headie]

All you people generalising 'black people say it all the time'... well I never say it and if I ever hear someone else say it I get really annoyed tbh. Don't like the word, although if someone used it to me in a non-hostile way (providing they were black) I wouldn't be too offended, I'd just tell them that I don't use that word.

[Ninastar]

^ i dont think anyone has said that... but i'm glad to hear that you hate the word too

[Livia]

I wouldn't dream of using the word and don't know any white person who would, even in jest to a black person who was a good friend. If black people want to say it, it's up to them. I figure they've earned the right.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by smeagol

no one should be allowed to say it , i think its pathetic people jumping up and down screaming people are racist but then they go and use that word themselves then wonder why theres racist people.
There is no reclaiming the word its just a excuse to cause a divide and be different but whats ironic is it took how many to be treated the same. talk about undoing good.
There will never be one world all the time people are finding ways to cause divides.

i find it offensive in every way.

Totally agree.........as I said earlier it is an offensive word and no one should use it. There is no "reclaiming" the word for Black people that's just street talk. Fact is the word is always going to give offence and so should be allowed to fade from use

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Zee

I'm not saying anything about it being fair or unfair, I'm saying that the word has not been disarmed because it hasn't been. Not all black people are comfortable with using the word because, just like when white people use it, the word conjures up historical grievances that the world has slowly started to move on from. Throwing the word around now without really doing anything to change its meaning to something positive is stalling progress, in my opinion. All it would take is a popular movement to take off to redefine the word, officially, to mean 'friend', a positive campaign that takes the edge off the word. But really, I think the word should be laid to rest. That won't happen of course, it's entered the vernacular of several music genres which ensures the word isn't going anywhere any time soon, but I think that constantly using it without really defining what it means and continuing to have an us vs them attitude with regards to the word is just prolonging the problem when the guilty party has tried its best to make the word taboo and drum it into people that it is no longer okay to use the word. If there is no context and there are no parameters over what the word means, it ensures that the problem continues to exist.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Totally agree.........as I said earlier it is an offensive word and no one should use it. There is no "reclaiming" the word for Black people that's just street talk. Fact is the word is always going to give offence and so should be allowed to fade from use

Who are white people to decide that though? We weren't the ones it was used against in such a disgusting way. Personally, I think white people should have no say in it at all. I think maybe white people want it to disappear because they don't want to be reminded of what was done to black people at the hands of white people

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its best to just avoid it, its an American problem mainly. America still have a lot to work out that in this country we settled long ago (like abortion).

Originally Posted by Zee

I'm not saying anything about it being fair or unfair, I'm saying that the word has not been disarmed because it hasn't been. Not all black people are comfortable with using the word because, just like when white people use it, the word conjures up historical grievances that the world has slowly started to move on from. Throwing the word around now without really doing anything to change its meaning to something positive is stalling progress, in my opinion. All it would take is a popular movement to take off to redefine the word, officially, to mean 'friend', a positive campaign that takes the edge off the word. But really, I think the word should be laid to rest. That won't happen of course, it's entered the vernacular of several music genres which ensures the word isn't going anywhere any time soon, but I think that constantly using it without really defining what it means and continuing to have an us vs them attitude with regards to the word is just prolonging the problem when the guilty party has tried its best to make the word taboo and drum it into people that it is no longer okay to use the word. If there is no context and there are no parameters over what the word means, it ensures that the problem continues to exist.

The fact that word has been moved from a word that dehumanises black people to a word that is just used by some in the black community is a positive. Redefining words seems a bit nonsensical to me.

No one redefined the words gay or queer for example, they just embraced them in the same way that many black people do. But more than that, it's none of our business. A campaign to redefine the meaning it would be one of the most embarrassingly cringe-inducing things imaginable.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Who are white people to decide that though? We weren't the ones it was used against in such a disgusting way. Personally, I think white people should have no say in it at all. I think maybe white people want it to disappear because they don't want to be reminded of what was done to black people at the hands of white people

I agree white people cannot rule on this and black people can use the word if they feel they can move beyond the offensive meaning it has.

Keeping this word alive or "reclaiming" it might be seen as a solution but ultimately the offensive meaning of the word would still be there and I feel black people would never be truly comfortable using it regardless of what meaning or context it now has.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

The fact that word has been moved from a word that dehumanises black people to a word that is just used by some in the black community is a positive. Redefining words seems a bit nonsensical to me.

No one redefined the words gay or queer for example, they just embraced them in the same way that many black people do. But more than that, it's none of our business. A campaign to redefine the meaning it would be one of the most embarrassingly cringe-inducing things imaginable.

It's a step in the right direction but by being fiercely protective of the word, which I completely understand, it means the word is not truly redefined because only certain people are using its new definition while others (of all different races) still associate the word with its pejorative definition and therefore whenever they hear the term, they find it awkward.

You make a point about embracing the words - the n word has not been embraced by the world at large because it has not been allowed, ownership has been claimed over the word and while I can completely understand why that is, that is also the reason the word has not completely moved on from its negative connotations. If it's none of our business then it wouldn't be a taboo. It's very much all of our business, collectively, the problem hasn't been solved because there are still racist grievances occuring in the world today and white people still have a lot of apologies to be making. It might not be up to us to decide how the word is used but it's certainly down to all of us to make sure that the world moves past the racist, colonial era that created the tension behind the n word.

[Z]

And if the word selfie can enter the dictionary in 2014, I think the n word can have its other definition added to the dictionary too. It's been used in that way for a number of years now. Maybe you think that's cringe worthy but it's how some people use the word, that it hasn't been recognised is proof enough that people are too nervous about the n word to dare mutter it under their breath, which to me shows that there is still a problem there.

[Niall]

No. It's not my place to use that word, and when I do it just perpetuates the privilege I have and further entrenches the inherently racist qualities of that word.

It's just like straight people shouldn't dare use the words 'faggot' or 'dyke'.

They're all words of oppression, and the respective groups of oppressors have no place in using those words if they wish to wish to move on from what's happened in the past.

[Marsh.]

Is this like gay people being allowed to call themselves fags but if a straight person says it they are homophobes?

[Vicky.]

I use fag got and queer. To friends mind, who call themselves it, not to randomers

[Gstar]

Why am I only just seeing this thread? :s

I try not to say it around non-black people (without a sense of humor), other than that I say it all the time

[Headie]

Why has this thread about black people turned into a discussion about gay friends