[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"Maureen Lipman"

Yes Joey

Things Change.


But also the Observer
is Not Right Wing

I never said it was arista. However,I still don't go with the excessive drama the papers are trying to present as to this issue,from in the main so called,anonymous,unnamed MPs and sources.
I have little time,indeed no time at all ,for cowards who want to say something or want something done but will not identify themselves fully in the process.

I still also believe that Tristram Hunt has likely been misquoted and his comments taken out of context too, as is the case for most politicians of all parties with journalists.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I never said it was arista. However,I still don't go with the excessive drama the papers are trying to present as to this issue,from in the main so called,anonymous,unnamed MPs and sources.
I have little time,indeed no time at all ,for cowards who want to say something or want something done but will not identify themselves fully in the process.

I still also believe that Tristram Hunt has likely been misquoted and his comments taken out of context too, as is the case for most politicians of all parties with journalists.

Sure on T.Hunt


But many are Shocked at the Left Wing Observer
attacking Ed.

As for names
when they get a Leader confirmed
then the names could come

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Sure on T.Hunt


But many are Shocked at the Left Wing Observer
attacking Ed.

As for names
when they get a Leader confirmed
then the names could come

I would guess the Observer would prefer to see a Labour victory in 2015 and it does likely feel that a new leader would make such a victory more assured.
However the polling suggest not a great deal of change no matter who was leader.

For me, and I still think it is a really good and strong one, the mesage of Labour's policies is what matters in the end.
Despite the reservations many have as to Ed Miliband,the more he sticks to his guns and presses on,I think voters will come to at least respect that and continue to support those policies,even if they cannot the man at the helm.

If,in Govt. he really delivers all he says he will as PM,(and I am convinced he would),then there could be a whole turnaround for him.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I would guess the Observer would prefer to see a Labour victory in 2015 and it does likely feel that a new leader would make such a victory more assured.
However the polling suggest not a great deal of change no matter who was leader.

For me, and I still think it is a really good and strong one, the mesage of Labour's policies is what matters in the end.
Despite the reservations many have as to Ed Miliband,the more he sticks to his guns and presses on,I think voters will come to at least respect that and continue to support those policies,even if they cannot the man at the helm.

If,in Govt. he really delivers all he says he will as PM,(and I am convinced he would),then there could be a whole turnaround for him.

Sure
or until he makes a Tragic Error

In Politics alot can happen in just 5 days

[arista]

[JohnnyBB]

Suppose this is what labour gets for pissing off Murdoch there all his papers.

[arista]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBB

Suppose this is what labour gets for pissing off Murdoch there all his papers.

Sure
and now all the Left Wing Papers /mags
have also got it in for ED.


He Can't Escape it

The more he talks
the worse it gets

[arista]

Joey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_MacKinlay

Andrew MacKinlay was just live on BBCNews
older than us
he is 65 and former Labour MP

He said Ed Miliband is not rallying the troops
and in a speech he goes wrong.
he has seen other Labour Leaders
like that , and they did not win

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Joey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_MacKinlay

Andrew MacKinlay was just live on BBCNews
older than us
he is 65 and former Labour MP

He said Ed Miliband is not rallying the troops
and in a speech he goes wrong.
he has seen other Labour Leaders
like that , and they did not win

Former MPs have had their day and many of them grumbled at Harold Wilson,James Callaghan,Neil Kinnock, and even more at Tony Blair.
Just as many former MPs have attacked Conservative leaders and PMs too

I have said and I agree with a present MP, that Ed Miliband needs to push to the front his team of shadow ministers.
I have said the presentation is a problem,that doesn't however make the content of the presentation invalid at all.

You must hope he won't win. for you that is,for me I on the other hand want him to,I also believe that the way politics is at present, he is the one with the best, if not only chance of coming nearer to an overall majority,if he turns things around a bit in Scotland he likely will scrape an overall majority.

He won me over for one,I am in no way unique,I am sure he has many others thinking too, no matter what they may think of him personally.

As for the press, I never take any notice of the press at all, whether it supports the party I do or if it doesn't.
The press are a dying breed as to influencing voters, people get more truth as to politics from other outlets on the internet without reading the biased and often vitriolic lies and nonsense that journalist print about all politicians, from all parties.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Former MPs have had their day and many of them grumbled at Harold Wilson,James Callaghan,Neil Kinnock, and even more at Tony Blair.
Just as many former MPs have attacked Conservative leaders and PMs too

I have said and I agree with a present MP, that Ed Miliband needs to push to the front his team of shadow ministers.
I have said the presentation is a problem,that doesn't however make the content of the presentation invalid at all.

You must hope he won't win for for you that is,for me I on the other hand want him to,I also believe that the way politics is at present, he is the one with the best, if not only chance of coming nearer to an overall majority,if he turns things around a bit in Scotland he likely will scrape an overall majority.

He won me over for one,I am in no way unique,I am sure he has many others thinking too, no matter what they may think of him personally.

As for the press, I never take any notice of the press at all, whether it supports the party I do or if it doesn't.
The press are a dying breed as to influencing voters, people get more truth as to politics from other outlets on the internet without reading the biased and often vitriolic lies and nonsense that journalist print about all politicians, from all parties.

Sure
some others like you also backed
the Walking Dead PM Brown

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Sure
some others like you also backed
the Walking Dead PM Brown

I never backed Gordon Brown at all, I helped vote him out.

I wanted to be able to vote Conservative in 2010 with my first ever vote but I lost trust in David Cameron as to his ideas for the NHS.
I didn't really believe his assurance that there would be 'no top down re-organisation of the NHS under him'.
I was proven right to have done that as he mislead the voters.

So I voted Lib Dem, hoping for a hung parliament, whereby they would moderate the Conservative policies and keep down tuition fees and help protect the NHS.
I saw that vote as a hopeful insurance policy that if it was Labour they kept in power, that they would curb any borrowing by Labour, keep them to their plan of halving the deficit in 4 years, no rise in tuition fees and protecting and investing in the NHS.

Well what a shock I got from the Lib Dems too, they threw all my and the other voters who did, trust right back in my face and completely betrayed their voters in return for crumbs from the Conservative party.

What I have seen happen and the devastation caused as to the poorest, the most vulnerable, sick and disabled from this govts.policies is what has brought me to Labour and Ed Milibands door and also my main concern, the NHS which even with their faults as to it, I see Labour as the only party that can really be trusted with the NHS now.
Even the Lib Dems have lost my trust in that direction too.

I was a Conservative until I was 17 arista,this heartless current Conservative is nothing what I expect a decent party of the UK to be or act.

This govt. has in fact lost over a third of what it got in 2010,down from 61% of votes cast for the 2 parties, running at 38% in the polls now.
Only UKIP, Greens and Labour have gone up in votes since 2010.

It still seems voters are at a bit of a loss who to vote for to get rid of this coalition Govt.
I just really hope they realise in time that there is really only one way to 100% ensure this Govt. is sent packing conclusively in 2015, and that is to vote Labour.
Voting UKIP may help get rid of them too but to be sure,it is really only votes for Labour that will get this heartless,rotten shower out,once and for all.
That is what I hope and still think will happen on election day too.

Voters cannot believe anything David Cameron and Nick Clegg say.
It may also well be that Ed Miliband may not be able to be trusted too,maybe he will,that cannot be said true one way or the other.
However we have seen what this PM and Deputy PM have done with power,it is far from acceptable or right.
We haven't however seen what Ed Miliband will really do and like them he now deserves a shot at it,in my opinion.

[JoshBB]

Sometimes I like ed (eg. when he did a speech slating the bedroom tax), then at other times I don't. Imo it would be best for Labour if he stands down, however UKIP may have damaged the Conservative vote enough for them to still get in - plus a lot of tories aren't happy with Cameron's leadership.

[arista]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Sometimes I like ed (eg. when he did a speech slating the bedroom tax), then at other times I don't. Imo it would be best for Labour if he stands down, however UKIP may have damaged the Conservative vote enough for them to still get in - plus a lot of tories aren't happy with Cameron's leadership.

Yes

Also UKIP takes Labour Voters
as well

[arista]

Also On Ch4NewsHD , just now
if they changed to Alan Johnson
the backing numbers would go right up.

Under Miliband
they keep going down

[arista]

I Know you never backed Brown
I said other "Like " you

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

I Know you never backed Brown
I said other "Like " you

Oh I see.
It has been really enjoyable chatting with you on this arista, it always is,I am sure we will return to some issue like this again.
Possibly after the Rochester by election when it may be another leader struggling to keep some order in his party.

[arista]

"Miliband Out - If A Labour MP Breaks Cover"

Yes Please

http://news.sky.com/story/1369979/mi...p-breaks-cover

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by arista

"Miliband Out - If A Labour MP Breaks Cover"

Yes Please

http://news.sky.com/story/1369979/mi...p-breaks-cover

matter of days.......

[joeysteele]

No way is Ed Miliband going anywhere and I doubt he will be even after the elction. Because at the very least Labour,I believe will still be the largest party after the election.

With more likely guarded support to govern from the Natonalists,who would never I believe allow the Conservatives to continue and also the support of the SDLP in N. Ireland,no way will the Conservatives and Lib Dems win enough seats to erode that scenario.

There is simply no real appetite or evn time from the vast majority of the Labour movement to now embark on a leadership election.
There is in all truth and in all fact, no vacancy and that vast majority of the Labour movement, don't want there to be a vacancy either.

Now let us settle down to hear all David Cameron's likely problems with his party after the farce in the Commons yesterday and then the result of the Rochester by election next week.
Far more substance in those issues than in Ed Milibands already assured position as Labour leader for the 2015 election and I also believe well beyond it too as he is still likely to be the next Prime Minister.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

No way is Ed Miliband going anywhere and I doubt he will be even after the elction. Because at the very least Labour,I believe will still be the largest party after the election.

With more likely guarded support to govern from the Natonalists,who would never I believe allow the Conservatives to continue and also the support of the SDLP in N. Ireland,no way will the Conservatives and Lib Dems win enough seats to erode that scenario.

There is simply no real appetite or evn time from the vast majority of the Labour movement to now embark on a leadership election.
There is in all truth and in all fact, no vacancy and that vast majority of the Labour movement, don't want there to be a vacancy either.

Now let us settle down to hear all David Cameron's likely problems with his party after the farce in the Commons yesterday and then the result of the Rochester by election next week.
Far more substance in those issues than in Ed Milibands already assured position as Labour leader for the 2015 election and I also believe well beyond it too as he is still likely to be the next Prime Minister.

Yes let's, the media hatchet job was most likely expected, he needs to just stand firm and watch the conservatives implode.

[joeysteele]

Furthermore all this as to Ed Milibands low poll ratings, there is little he can do to show he would be a good PM until he becomes one.
The amazing thing is of those polled in the same poll, nearly two thirds of those polled said they didn't rate Cameron either and Cameron has been doing the job for the last 4 and a half years.

Nothing really positive for him either then, he is PM but only just over a third rate his premiership, now let see what the ratings may be for Ed Miliband after 4 and a half years of being PM.
I'd dare bet they'd be higher than procrastinator Cameron's.

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Nedusa]

I'm sorry but I am sticking to my earlier prediction that Mr Miliband will be replaced soon. He had an opportunity today to give a speech allaying fears he was affected by the current press clamour for his removal. But the audience were hand picked and his message is landing on deaf ears.

The majority of mainstream labour voters do not think Mr Miliband has what it takes to beat the Conservatives and run the Country.

No amount of speeches by Mr Miliband will change this perception. The Labour hierarchy now have to decide whether to stick with The labour leader and risk losing the election or cut and run , replace him with a more charismatic leader but also run the risk of doing this too close to the election for voters to get to know the new leader.
Either way Labour are in trouble, they have dillied and dallied with Mr Miliband for 3 or 4 years now knowing he was a risk to voters. They never groomed a credible understudy who could strip in should Mr Miliband falter.

Now they are left between a rock and a hard place. Thank goodness Mr Cameron is equally unpopular and with the UKIP on the rise taking voters from both main parties the best the Labour Party can hope for is a coalition govt with Labour the senior party but well short of a parliamentary majority.

Watch this space.

[joeysteele]

I thought his speech today was a good one but an unnecessary one,it wss however far more relevant to the UK at large than the childish sniping from the media and their inventions of stories that sadly politicians of all parties have to put up with nowadays.

He re-iterated his values, the policies of compassion as to KLabour policies, the NHS and also his determination not to be sidestepped from standing up to those who not only get at him but also the business giants who rip their customers off right,left and centre.

He took on UKIP too and stressed his determination not to be put off course from doing all he has promised to if elected.

Contrast that with rthe deceit and lies we were told by the Conservatives and Lib Dems in 2010 and likely even now too.
By the Conservatives as to not only likely doubling tuition fees but actually trebling them, as to no top down re-organisation for the NHS then doing it,without any mandate from the voters to do so too.
Then the slimy Lib Dems, who threw every promise made to their voters out the window for to secure a miserable 5 years of shared power and a few Ministerial positions for themselves.

Contrast just those few things with the speech Miliband made today and I know, for one,who I will give the chance to prove themself now and it is neither of the pevious misleading and lying two,the aforementioned David Cameron and Nick Clegg.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I thought his speech today was a good one but an unnecessary one,it wss however far more relevant to the UK at lasrge than the childish sniping from the media and their inventions of stories that sadly politicians of all parties have to put up with nowadays.

He re-iterated his values, the policies of compassion as to KLabour policies, the NHS and also his determination not to be sidestepped from standing up to those who not only get at him but also the business giants who rip their customers off right,left and centre.

He took on UKIP too and stressed his determination not to be put off course from doing all he has promised to if elected.

Contrast that with rthe deceit and lies we were told by the Conservatives and Lib Dems in 2010 and likely even now too.
By the Conservatives as to not only likely doubling tuition fees but actually trebling them, as to no top down re-organisation for the NHS then doing it,without any mandate from the voters to do so too.
Then the slimy Lib Dems, who threw every promise made to their voters out the window for to secure a miserble 5 years of shared power and a few Ministerial positions for themselves.

Contrast just those few things with the speech Miliband made today and I know, for one,who I will give the chance to prove themself now and it is neither of the pevious misleading and lying two,the aforementioned David Cameron and Nick Clegg.

That's the sad irony of this whole affair is that the best leader is not necessarily the best looking most eloquent or most charismatic. But they are the ones that get voted in, it's the way of politics now where the voter is voting for the leader not the party so only the personal qualities of the leader are judged above the policies of the party.

It's totally wrong I know but it happens every time. Look at Tony Benn and Michael Foot both would have made great leaders but they never got the chance.

I hope Mr Miliband survives and wins the election but honestly can't see it as once the hounds attack the sniping gets louder and louder until a labour front bencher breaks ranks and openly criticises the leader forcing him to hold a vote of confidence and by then I'm afraid it's pretty much game over for Mr Miliband.

I think if he survives to Christmas then he will be OK, but I suspect there are further pitfalls and bear traps lying in wait for him. It could be a long 7 weeks.




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