[Ruth]

Originally posted by Ella

How do you know its not true? Can you post some sources on that please...and I didnt say it WAS true, I just said I read it somewhere...

Was I accusing you of lying?! No. You just said that you read something somewhere and I said it wasn't true. It wasn't a personal attack on your honesty or anything like that. You seem to have taken it very personally.

[Ruth]

I should be working but a quick google search found these two articles...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_infe.htm

http://www.fwhc.org/qa/ab-multiple.htm

I could look for more, but frankly, I have far too much work to do. I have not been able to find one single article which suggests that abortion affects fertility (except for rare complications).

As I said before, I wasn't questioning your honesty - which you seem to think I was. What's the point of having a debate if someone isn't allowed to tell someone else when something isn't correct?

[Sunny_01]

I am very much pro-choice.

I do think that you should discuss it with your partner, but I think the ultimate decision lies with woman who has to go through with the procedure.

[Ella]

Originally posted by Ruth
I should be working but a quick google search found these two articles...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_infe.htm

http://www.fwhc.org/qa/ab-multiple.htm

I could look for more, but frankly, I have far too much work to do. I have not been able to find one single article which suggests that abortion affects fertility (except for rare complications).

As I said before, I wasn't questioning your honesty - which you seem to think I was. What's the point of having a debate if someone isn't allowed to tell someone else when something isn't correct?

I wasn't having a go at you! I was just wondering if you have any sources, Becuase I am interested to know. And don't try making out like I am saying your point wasn't valid. I was simply asking for proof! Which I think I have a right to!

[Ruth]

Okay Ella, looks like there was a breakdown in communication. When I wrote "That isn't true," it probably looked a bit abrupt, but to tell the truth I was posting in a real rush. I wasn't accusing you of lying or anything like that. Sorry if I misunderstood what you posted. It was a very stressful day yesterday

[Ruth]

Ella, check your u2u honey
x

[Z]

I think that there are two particular "types" of situation that really annoy me; where one prospective parent blocks the intended action of the other (e.g. the father makes the mother abort, or the mother refuses to abort for the father - in both cases, without any serious discussion.) or when people take advantage of the system and just abort every time. It's saddening.

[Ella]

Originally posted by Ruth
Okay Ella, looks like there was a breakdown in communication. When I wrote "That isn't true," it probably looked a bit abrupt, but to tell the truth I was posting in a real rush. I wasn't accusing you of lying or anything like that. Sorry if I misunderstood what you posted. It was a very stressful day yesterday

I'm sorry if you thought I was having a go at you. I really wasn't, Its just my way of speaking that some people misunderstand I think. And thanks for the U2U, That was really nice.

x

Right now thats sorted...Back to the topic!

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Z
I think that there are two particular "types" of situation that really annoy me; where one prospective parent blocks the intended action of the other (e.g. the father makes the mother abort, or the mother refuses to abort for the father - in both cases, without any serious discussion.) or when people take advantage of the system and just abort every time. It's saddening.

Discussion is the key Z! I truly believe that discussions should take place between everyone involved but the ultimate decision is the womans, after all its her body.

A potential father has no legal rights over a foetus. The decision to terminate a pregnancy is made between the woman and her doctor. Which I am not saying I agree with but things would become very difficult if it were not that way, I mean how do you force a woman to continue with a pregnancy she does not want, she will do everything with in her power to stop this!

[Ruth]

I agree with Sunny. I do believe that the father should be able to have a say, but there is no way that he should be able to force a woman to abort, or force a woman to have a baby that she does not want.

[Ella]

I agree to a certain extent..But at the end of the day. I feel that ultimately it is the womens choice her body ect ect. As long as she explains and talks through her decision with the Father.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Dr43%er
"So what you're saying is that abortion is cruel unless somebody deems the baby imperfect enough to be subject of an abortion?" I totally agree. That is more Hitler like than having a choice.

I am pro choice. How anyone can use terms like murders and slaughter is beyond me.

Can I ask, the people who are against it. Are you religious?

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. Should the man have say? After all, it is half his.

To answer one question. No I am not religious at all. My views are not based on religious belief but instead on right and wrong. Put simply would pro abortionists like to be destroyed because you are an inconvenience to someone!!!

My post has no doubt offended some. When I here people defending the slaughter of the unborn without good reason then I too am offended and have to put up with hearing it.

As for the male having a choice. It takes two to tango so two should decide.......

It is said the woman has the right to decide because it is her body. Not any more there are now two bodies. One of which has no say and nobody to save them from the slaughter of convenience... Lazy birth control....Oh I am expecting a baby!!! Oh how inconvcenient....I know I'll go and get advice on how to kill it.......Typical of todays cold blooded selfish society....

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Ruth

Well, I sure hope the view from up there on the moral high ground is nice.

People have abortions for all sorts of reasons. Many women are terrified, desperate and alone. Likening them to Hitler does not help anybody - that in itself is cruel and un-necessary, and not to mention that it is a ridiculous comparison.

I'm very surprised actually - I certainly never thought that the most offensive post I ever read on this forum would be one of yours.

Have to smile at the irony of a post that slates abortion, but then deems it okay, if the baby has severe health problems. So what you're saying is that abortion is cruel unless somebody deems the baby imperfect enough to be subject of an abortion?

Moral high ground I don't think so. Not supporting the needless destruction of life is not a moral high ground simply of knowing right from wrong.

You find my post offensive. I find the support of killing for convenience offensive.

The abortion debate is a very hot potato and will raise very strong passions from both sides of the fence.....In such a debate if one is to speak true to oneself then there is always the possibility of offence......

Ruth. To put the record straight as my original post was beneath your post. My comments were not targeting you in particular. It was a general comment for all people who think killing for convenience is just fine and dandy...

You query my comment on supporting abortion for the possibly severly disabled unborn. By disabled I mean if the would be child were to have an existance that would be a life long torture of illness and suffering. In such cases if it were certain that a baby may be born to that fate then abortion for reasons of humanity is in my view acceptable just like some belive that severly sick and suffering adults should have the right to have there lives prematurly terminated.Now thats another hot potato of a debate

[Ruth]

If you are against abortion, fair enough. I wasn't criticising you for that opinion, but more for your Hitler comparisons. And that you seem to think it's not okay for someone to decide to abort a healthy baby, but it's okay for them to make a decision about what kind of life a disabled baby would have, and then to take the decision to abort. What say does that baby get?

Also, I would say that while a lot of unwanted pregnancies are as a result of lazy birth control, many aren't. Sometimes you can do everything right, and still get pregnant.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Ruth
If you are against abortion, fair enough. I wasn't criticising you for that opinion, but more for your Hitler comparisons. And that you seem to think it's not okay for someone to decide to abort a healthy baby, but it's okay for them to make a decision about what kind of life a disabled baby would have, and then to take the decision to abort. What say does that baby get?

Also, I would say that while a lot of unwanted pregnancies are as a result of lazy birth control, many aren't. Sometimes you can do everything right, and still get pregnant.

The reason I use the Hitler comparison is because that was the culture of Hitler. Kill what he does not approve of....Thats a fact I am afraid of which there is no escape.

I have explained in detail my view on when abortion is justifiable perhaps you may wish to read again as I don't understand your logic on that point!!!

Of course its true pregnancy can occure even with the best of planning.......An inconvenient baby still does not mean the poor child should be killed. Why not adoption!!!

What we have at present is effectivel abortion on demand. The killing of the unborn for no justifiable reasons other than they are not wanted.....Hitler did not want the Jews.So what did he do.....You guessed. He killed them.....I am sorry but I cannot say sorry for the comparison because the sentiment is the same....Regards......bananarama

[Sunny_01]

At what stage do you say that they will be handicapped "enough" to justify abortion? surely by your logic we have no right to decide this!

I just feel that rather than bring more unwanted children into this world a termination is the best option for some people. Childrens homes are busrting at the seams in this country so adoption is not always an option.

I just feel strongly that women have the right to end an unwanted pregnancy. I have 2 beautiful children but had no desire to have more so had I by some chance ended up pregnant again I would have had to seriously consider a termination.

I have a friend who has had a termination and it was not a decision she made easily but she has not regreted it, she was not at a good place in her life and had nothing to offer to a child. I certainly wouldnt want her to be treated badly for this decision or called cruel names for it.

[Ruth]

[quote]Originally posted by bananarama

Originally posted by Ruth
Of course its true pregnancy can occure even with the best of planning.......An inconvenient baby still does not mean the poor child should be killed. Why not adoption!!!

Well obviously we are not going to agree on this point...fair enough.

However, seeing as you have asked 'why not adoption' - there are literally thousands of children who need homes in the UK. Most of them have no hope of getting adopted. The hard fact is that there are nowhere near the amount of prospective adoptive parents to take in the amount of children who hope to be adopted.

[Lil-Lindz]

Im not sure about abortion, i dont think people should do it unless it is for a medical reason, however if i was in the situation of being pregnant when i didnt want to be im not sure what i would do

[InTheFade]

I personally don't think that abortion is the worst thing in the world and I'm the furthest thing away from ignorant on this subject but it is a matter of opinion and I can understand why so many people are against it. I do believe that the time limit in which abortion can be carried out should be reduced as 24 weeks is far too late into pregnancy and also, the number of abortions a woman can have should be restricted.

[sarahtheangel]

abortions !!! well my view is unless the mother is raped , in serious danger of carrying the child or there is enough evidence that the baby will have no quality of life int the world then it should not happen there is to much abortions being used for contraceptive reasons and this is not a reason to have 1 what with the contraceptive available now adays there is no excuse.

[001steven]

depends on circumstances

[Psylocke]

Individuals choice.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by sarahtheangel
abortions !!! well my view is unless the mother is raped , in serious danger of carrying the child or there is enough evidence that the baby will have no quality of life int the world then it should not happen there is to much abortions being used for contraceptive reasons and this is not a reason to have 1 what with the contraceptive available now adays there is no excuse.

And what if the contraception fails?Accidents do happen.

Originally posted by Psylocke
Individuals choice.

Agreed.

[sarahtheangel]

how many fails should a woman be able to have

[Stu]

Anybody ever hear of Dr. Gunn?! He was a pro choice abortionist who was killed by pro-lifers. Marilyn Manson did a song on him entitled 'get your gunn' claiming that it was the greatest hypocricy he witnessed growing up.

Anyway im pro choice. I have the position that you must live in order to die. And then death is wrong.

In that respect theirs nothing wrong with abortion in my point of view.