[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Livia

The fact that there are people on this thread who think that Muslims taking over a whole area and telling a British person "go away and don't come back, you shouldn't be here" is perfectly fine is the reason that people voted Brexit and the reason that people voted Trump. I'm so tired of it being insinuated that people are racist, conditioned or any other silly word used by the Left to push their own agenda.

Like I said before, well done The Left, Trump's victory is yours.

[Kizzy]

And I agree it is all about conditioning, you see an intimidating figure...I see a woman in an ice cream van.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And I agree it is all about conditioning, you see an intimidating figure...I see a woman in an ice cream van.

Actually, you see the eyes of a person, sex not verified. And that's exactly the point.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And I agree it is all about conditioning, you see an intimidating figure...I see a woman in an ice cream van.

You see a woman in an ice cream van, I see conditioning and control.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You see a woman in an ice cream van, I see conditioning and control.

Good for you.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Good for you.

Not good for you when you throw the explanation of 'conditioning' into the mix to attack critics whilst constantly attempting to defend those most guilty of that. It sounds ridiculous.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not good for you when you throw the explanation of 'conditioning' into the mix to attack critics whilst constantly attempting to defend those most guilty of that. It sounds ridiculous.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not good for you when you throw the explanation of 'conditioning' into the mix to attack critics whilst constantly attempting to defend those most guilty of that. It sounds ridiculous.

'Most guilty'... define most guilty in the context of social conditioning.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And I agree it is all about conditioning, you see an intimidating figure...I see a woman in an ice cream van.

Your view that opposes some other views that some Niqab wearing Muslim women are 'conditioned' into doing so, is frankly baffling Kizzy.

There are hundreds of complaints from oppressed Muslim women denouncing this very practice of being intimidated and threatened and conditioned into wearing these types of medieval garments against their will.

Many young 'Anglicised' Muslim girls have even been murdered by their extremist families for NOT obeying these strict dress codes.

And for further proof that these women are 'conditioned' into this; read this below from a young Muslim woman, actually note the terminology, and the tell me that she is not 'conditioned' and even 'brain-washed':

Mahmood Vesali, I've studied in seminary school

What is the philosophy of necessity of hijab?

1. Safety or security with all its aspects is seen as one of those issues that has been sufficiently taken into consideration in Islamic thoughts. ‘Nudity’, which means no or bad covering in the society, may lead to horrible consequences such as make up, self-ornamentation, and coquettish behavior if it is underestimated or given little attention.

It in turn causes men, especially young ones, to be exposed to constant nervous stimulation, inflammation and false excitement, which are ephemeral and transient. This excitement and inflammation is such that it may turn the individual into a mental patient and hence make him do such acts that may consequently become the source of other corruptions and sins; as some of the scientists have pointed out: “there is no critical incident in which a woman is not involved.”

2. A very brief review of families’ attempts in different communities and the statistical review of the reasons behind ‘divorce’, this horrible phenomenon, sheds light on the point that violating family’s privacy, increasing nudity in human society, and disintegration of families consequently lead to bitter and heart-rending phenomenon of “children of divorce”. In fact in the free market of nudity, at least in non-sexual stage, woman is seen as a ‘common good’, and marriage loses its sanctity and purity between the two people, who belong to each other, and every day men and women are entrapped by other men and women and hence their family life is weakened

‘Hijab’ is an Arabic word which literally means to put on, to cover, curtain, veil or covering (noun); however, among all these meanings, curtain or veil is more common and as a result it has led many people to suppose that Islam wants women to always stay at home behind the curtains and not to go out. In this regard, the great scholar, Martyr Morteza Motahhari states: “Covering for women in Islam means that in their interactions with men, women cover their bodies and don’t try to exhibit themselves or have coquettish behavior”.

[1] The related verses in Qur’an as well as jurists’ Fatwa in this regard refer to and highlight this principle. The module for covering in Islam can be achieved via Qur’an and tradition sources. In related verses, the term ‘hijab’ is not directly used. In other words, the verses in this regard, in holy chapters of either Noor or Al-Ahzaab indirectly refer to the limitations with regard to dress code and the interaction between men and women without using the word ‘hijab’.

So the wearing of 'Western' attire by women will turn MEN - especially the young ones - into Mental patients.

FFS.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Your view that opposes some other views that some Niqab wearing Muslim women are 'conditioned' into doing so, is frankly baffling Kizzy.

There are hundreds of complaints from oppressed Muslim women denouncing this very practice of being intimidated and threatened and conditioned into wearing these types of medieval garments against their will.

Many young 'Anglicised' Muslim girls have even been murdered by their extremist families for NOT obeying these strict dress codes.

And for further proof that these women are 'conditioned' into this; read this below from a young Muslim woman, actually note the terminology, and the tell me that she is not 'conditioned' and even 'brain-washed':

Mahmood Vesali, I've studied in seminary school

What is the philosophy of necessity of hijab?

1. Safety or security with all its aspects is seen as one of those issues that has been sufficiently taken into consideration in Islamic thoughts. ‘Nudity’, which means no or bad covering in the society, may lead to horrible consequences such as make up, self-ornamentation, and coquettish behavior if it is underestimated or given little attention.

It in turn causes men, especially young ones, to be exposed to constant nervous stimulation, inflammation and false excitement, which are ephemeral and transient. This excitement and inflammation is such that it may turn the individual into a mental patient and hence make him do such acts that may consequently become the source of other corruptions and sins; as some of the scientists have pointed out: “there is no critical incident in which a woman is not involved.”

2. A very brief review of families’ attempts in different communities and the statistical review of the reasons behind ‘divorce’, this horrible phenomenon, sheds light on the point that violating family’s privacy, increasing nudity in human society, and disintegration of families consequently lead to bitter and heart-rending phenomenon of “children of divorce”. In fact in the free market of nudity, at least in non-sexual stage, woman is seen as a ‘common good’, and marriage loses its sanctity and purity between the two people, who belong to each other, and every day men and women are entrapped by other men and women and hence their family life is weakened

‘Hijab’ is an Arabic word which literally means to put on, to cover, curtain, veil or covering (noun); however, among all these meanings, curtain or veil is more common and as a result it has led many people to suppose that Islam wants women to always stay at home behind the curtains and not to go out. In this regard, the great scholar, Martyr Morteza Motahhari states: “Covering for women in Islam means that in their interactions with men, women cover their bodies and don’t try to exhibit themselves or have coquettish behavior”.

[1] The related verses in Qur’an as well as jurists’ Fatwa in this regard refer to and highlight this principle. The module for covering in Islam can be achieved via Qur’an and tradition sources. In related verses, the term ‘hijab’ is not directly used. In other words, the verses in this regard, in holy chapters of either Noor or Al-Ahzaab indirectly refer to the limitations with regard to dress code and the interaction between men and women without using the word ‘hijab’.

So the wearing of 'Western' attire by women will turn MEN - especially the young ones - into Mental patients.

FFS.

I don't mean to be hyper critical but the tone of previous posts do not suggest that the well being of Muslim women are the uppermost in your thoughts in relation to this issue.
There are cultural issues that affect women predominantly the world over, they are being addressed from within those communities, to simply stand shouting and pointing from the sidelines is useless.
As is demonising any and all Muslims, this has been addressed many many times the religious and cultural differences of that faith are as diverse as the next.

I have also seen the passages you posted cross referenced with similar biblical old testament text in these threads many times, therefore this cherry picking of information can go on ad infinitum.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...-passages.html

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;9052987]I don't mean to be hyper critical but the tone of previous posts do not suggest that the well being of Muslim women are the uppermost in your thoughts in relation to this issue.

More misrepresentation. Who the hell mentioned that "the well being of Muslim women are the uppermost" in my "thoughts in relation to this issue."?

I never did - anywhere. I clearly stated at the beginning of my post what the purpose of that post was:

"Your view that opposes some other views that some Niqab wearing Muslim women are 'conditioned' into doing so, is frankly baffling Kizzy.

There are hundreds of complaints from oppressed Muslim women denouncing this very practice of being intimidated and threatened and conditioned into wearing these types of medieval garments against their will.

Many young 'Anglicised' Muslim girls have even been murdered by their extremist families for NOT obeying these strict dress codes.

And for further proof that these women are 'conditioned' into this; read this below from a young Muslim woman, actually note the terminology, and the tell me that she is not 'conditioned' and even 'brain-washed': "

Now is not the above clear enough to define the purpose of my post, and NOWHERE do I mention or allude to; "the well being of Muslim women" being uppermost" in my "thoughts in relation to this issue."

You just made that up. :laugh - Just like you did this below:

"There are cultural issues that affect women predominantly the world over, they are being addressed from within those communities, to simply stand shouting and pointing from the sidelines is useless. "

More Deflection and totally meaningless and irrelevant within the context of my post.

In addition, what the hell does "to simply stand shouting and pointing from the sidelines is useless." actually mean? This is mere waffle in the hope of deflecting that you have no real argument Kizzy.

I am not shouting or pointing from any sideline, I am posting my view on a forum in response to points which you made that I do not agree with.

"As is demonising any and all Muslims, this has been addressed many many times the religious and cultural differences of that faith are as diverse as the next."

This above from you is disgusting and unfair.

I have NOT "Demonised ALL Muslims" either in this post OR ANY OTHER and the rest of your sentence is yet more deflective waffle.

"I have also seen the passages you posted cross referenced with similar biblical old testament text in these threads many times, therefore this cherry picking of information can go on ad infinitum."


WHAT "Cherry Picking of information"?

I used a Muslim Woman's OWN voluntary testimony to substantiate my rebuttal of your claim that some Muslim women are NOT 'conditioned' into wearing Niqabs.

Now that I have - and destroyed your claim - you once again start making spurious claims in your response posts about what I have and have not written, but the truth of all this is here for anyone impartial to read.

If you do not WANT to debate, then stop trying to always have the last word - especially when that last word is false.

Incidentally, your link to Biblical Passages is totally irrelevant deflection in the context of this post and this entire thread.

[jaxie]

[QUOTE=kirklancaster;9053034]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't mean to be hyper critical but the tone of previous posts do not suggest that the well being of Muslim women are the uppermost in your thoughts in relation to this issue.

More misrepresentation. Who the hell mentioned that "the well being of Muslim women are the uppermost" in my "thoughts in relation to this issue."?

I never did - anywhere. I clearly stated at the beginning of my post what the purpose of that post was:

"Your view that opposes some other views that some Niqab wearing Muslim women are 'conditioned' into doing so, is frankly baffling Kizzy.

There are hundreds of complaints from oppressed Muslim women denouncing this very practice of being intimidated and threatened and conditioned into wearing these types of medieval garments against their will.

Many young 'Anglicised' Muslim girls have even been murdered by their extremist families for NOT obeying these strict dress codes.

And for further proof that these women are 'conditioned' into this; read this below from a young Muslim woman, actually note the terminology, and the tell me that she is not 'conditioned' and even 'brain-washed': "

Now is not the above clear enough to define the purpose of my post, and NOWHERE do I mention or allude to; "the well being of Muslim women" being uppermost" in my "thoughts in relation to this issue."

You just made that up. :laugh - Just like you did this below:

"There are cultural issues that affect women predominantly the world over, they are being addressed from within those communities, to simply stand shouting and pointing from the sidelines is useless. "

More Deflection and totally meaningless and irrelevant within the context of my post.

In addition, what the hell does "to simply stand shouting and pointing from the sidelines is useless." actually mean? This is mere waffle in the hope of deflecting that you have no real argument Kizzy.

I am not shouting or pointing from any sideline, I am posting my view on a forum in response to points which you made that I do not agree with.

"As is demonising any and all Muslims, this has been addressed many many times the religious and cultural differences of that faith are as diverse as the next."

This above from you is disgusting and unfair.

I have NOT "Demonised ALL Muslims" either in this post OR ANY OTHER and the rest of your sentence is yet more deflective waffle.

"I have also seen the passages you posted cross referenced with similar biblical old testament text in these threads many times, therefore this cherry picking of information can go on ad infinitum."


WHAT "Cherry Picking of information"?

I used a Muslim Woman's OWN voluntary testimony to substantiate my rebuttal of your claim that some Muslim women are NOT 'conditioned' into wearing Niqabs.

Now that I have - and destroyed your claim - you once again start making spurious claims in your response posts about what I have and have not written, but the truth of all this is here for anyone impartial to read.

If you do not WANT to debate, then stop trying to always have the last word - especially when that last word is false.

Incidentally, your link to Biblical Passages is totally irrelevant deflection in the context of this post and this entire thread.

Very well put Kirk.