[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Fully agree Brillo.

Sometimes you feel you are hitting your head against a brick wall - no doubt it would be different if male equality was being challenged in this way.

Many pay lip service to believing in female equality, but talk is cheap and actions really do speak louder than words in my book.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Sometimes you feel you are hitting your head against a brick wall - no doubt it would be different if male equality was being challenged in this way.

Many pay lip service to believing in female equality, but talk is cheap and actions really do speak louder than words in my book.

Very true. People often say wearing such paraphernalia is the woman's choice except in reality it isn't really her choice, she does what she is conditioned to do by men. It is disturbing how so many non Muslims collude with that.

Why would any woman think her face is immodest?

[VanessaFeltz.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I don't see that expecting people who chose to live a certain country to respect the values and culture of that country as oppression.

Integration is key to success and wearing clothing that shouts female subjugation and undermines equality is not integration.

%100 disagree.

A country's laws should respect and protect EVERYONE not just the majority. Yes people entering a new country should respect other people and their rights but you cant make other people wear whatever you want them to wear. Not every women wants to wear burka in countries like saudi arabia but they are forced to wear those clothes. They dont have a chance to live in another country and they suffer because of other peoples actions. That is why i am upset with majority of the muslim people because they get upset at people who dont grant the rights they deserve while they dont respect or grant the rights other people deserve. If we do the same thing, then how we can ask respect from other people?

In short saying "respect the laws" is a weak argument to make when laws dont respect the people who work and contribute to the said society.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by VanessaFeltz.

Also banning burkas are not going to be a solution.. or china banning muslim names. You cant get your point across against oppression when you are oppressing them yourself.

As long as the burka ban is not a blanket ban it should work.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by VanessaFeltz.

Also banning burkas are not going to be a solution.. or china banning muslim names. You cant get your point across against oppression when you are oppressing them yourself.

Exactly!

And banning a garment does not protect women from the cultural backlash. it has to start with a freedom of choice and equity for women. Right now I feel laws banning the garment will only add to the shaming and negative connotation that is put on these religious or cultural garments.

Some women choose to wear this garment proudly, some hate that they have to wear it. Its a socially constructed issue that no law can fix. Even if laws were made that gave each person a choice to wear or not wear the applicable attire, that wouldn't change the general consensus of acceptable behaviour in dress.

That is something only time and greater acceptance can accomplish.

[Northern Monkey]

Does anybody even want to ban headscarves?
I don't see why they're a problem.
I thought it was just the full letterbox style assassin mask that people want banned?Which i totally agree with.
People's faces shouldn't be unrecognisable in public.For one it diminishes the whole idea of CCTV.

[Brother Leon]

TiBB coming like Stormfront these days with the propaganda. What a mess.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

TiBB coming like Stormfront these days with the propaganda. What a mess.

Typical left wing rubbish. Pot and kettle.

[DemolitionRed]

The banning in France has caused more trouble than its worth. Some women are no longer allowed to leave their front door by their patriarchal husbands/fathers and for those that protested by ignoring the ban, there have been a number of hate crimes, including a pregnant woman who was so badly beaten, she lost her baby.

[DemolitionRed]

Have you ever been stopped and searched by your bank?
Have you ever seen anyone in a bank being stopped and searched?
If a woman wearing niqab was suspected of shop lifting she would have to wait with the security men for the police to arrive.

niqab crimes are so low they are hardly worth a mention. The latest one was a British white guy from Watford in 2015. He could just as easily of donned a biker full face helmet.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Have you ever been stopped and searched by your bank?
Have you ever seen anyone in a bank being stopped and searched?
If a woman wearing niqab was suspected of shop lifting she would have to wait with the security men for the police to arrive.

niqab crimes are so low they are hardly worth a mention. The latest one was a British white guy from Watford in 2015. He could just as easily of donned a biker full face helmet.

I think you miss the point. Full face helmets are not allowed in banks and no doubt other public places. The same should apply to burkhas - anyone could be under that contraption.

[Livia]

I also have the freedom to wear what I want. Didn't stop a Muslim spitting at me on the Tube because I was wearing a tiny Star of David on a chain. But I'm not expecting everyone to wear a Star of David in solidarity.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Livia

I also have the freedom to wear what I want. Didn't stop a Muslim spitting at me on the Tube because I was wearing a tiny Star of David on a chain. But I'm not expecting everyone to wear a Star of David in solidarity.

Really sorry to hear you had that nasty experience Liv.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

I also have the freedom to wear what I want. Didn't stop a Muslim spitting at me on the Tube because I was wearing a tiny Star of David on a chain. But I'm not expecting everyone to wear a Star of David in solidarity.

But the compassionate lot would if it was a planned event and was a regular occurrence. Almost wonder if it would have happened at all if these solidarity events were more regular, but some people, evidently, are just opposed to any form of compassion, empathy and understanding of anybody outside of their bubble... Maybe that Austrian bloke is on to something..

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

But the compassionate lot would if it was a planned event and was a regular occurrence. Almost wonder if it would have happened at all if these solidarity events were more regular, but some people, evidently, are just opposed to any form of compassion, empathy and understanding of anybody outside of their bubble... Maybe that Austrian bloke is on to something..

You wear one then.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You wear one then.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Is there a law that says men can't do so? Put your money where your mouth is if you really believe in such 'solidarity'.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I also have the freedom to wear what I want. Didn't stop a Muslim spitting at me on the Tube because I was wearing a tiny Star of David on a chain. But I'm not expecting everyone to wear a Star of David in solidarity.

He was wrong in the same way as those who harass women in headscarves then.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He was wrong in the same way as those who harass women in headscarves then.

Not he... she. In a headscarf.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Not he... she. In a headscarf.

Well anyone who exhibits prejudice then, whether it was a he or a she of whichever faith.

[jaxie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39784721

Interesting article. "Young men as conservative as their fathers." "The majority of men, up to 90% in some places expected to control their wives' freedoms, from clothing to how often the couple had sex." "70% of women wanted to work but felt men should have the priority where work is scarce." "Yet if father's had more liberal attitudes their younger son's were more likely to as well." It's about patriarchal religious conditioning.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39784721

Interesting article. "Young men as conservative as their fathers." "The majority of men, up to 90% in some places expected to control their wives' freedoms, from clothing to how often the couple had sex." "70% of women wanted to work but felt men should have the priority where work is scarce." "Yet if father's had more liberal attitudes their younger son's were more likely to as well." It's about patriarchal religious conditioning.

A very high figure for the 21st century. And so the cycle continues. An interesting article which demonstrates how things don't change because men don't want to.

These men don't want to change - they like having it all their way - It's no more complicated that that in my opinion.

They shout loudly about white mans' racism whilst at the same time practicing the worst kind of sexism - big fat hypocrites who don't care - they just want everything their way.

I could never respect such 'values' that only exist to suit men.

Then some soft touch Austrian politician has a bright spark of an idea - let's not expect such people who choose to come to our countries to integrate with us - let us integrate with them. Wow.

Who knows maybe he isn't such a soft touch - just a sexist pig sympathiser.

[Niamh.]

I'm kind of on the fence with this one, I've read most of the posts in here and I agree with some of both sides tbh. Whilst I wouldn't like to dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't wear, I do also agree that alot of this religious attire (mainly the ones that cover the face etc) are oppressive to women and so for that reason i probably wouldn't wear a head scarf or whatever as protest to something I actually think is draconian. I mean I'm not going to try and force people not to wear them either but I'm not going to support something I think is outdated, i wouldn't protest for any religious stuff really because I think the world would be a better place without religions

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm kind of on the fence with this one, I've read most of the posts in here and I agree with some of both sides tbh. Whilst I wouldn't like to dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't wear, I do also agree that alot of this religious attire (mainly the ones that cover the face etc) are oppressive to women and so for that reason i probably wouldn't wear a head scarf or whatever as protest to something I actually think is draconian. I mean I'm not going to try and force people not to wear them either but I'm not going to support something I think is outdated, i wouldn't protest for any religious stuff really because I think the world would be a better place with religions

Obviously I'm not going to agree totally with the last bit, but on the whole... I agree with this.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Obviously I'm not going to agree totally with the last bit, but on the whole... I agree with this.

I know, you can't stop people believing what they want but it should be kept away from state and having any kind of impact on everyday life - work, school, laws etc