[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Obviously it depends on the context.

I’d say anti-semitism is hating a people because of a combination of their religion and race just as racism is hating a people because of their skin colour or race.

Criticising a religion or even the actions of followers of that religion imo doesn’t constitute(and should’nt).

Most rational people don’t hate Muslims or Christians or Jews because they choose to follow a religion.They judge people as they find them on an individual basis.
They do criticise aspects of their religion.Especially the current most oppressive and dangerous religion we are encountering.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So it’s anti-semitic to criticise a religion?

The day that becomes a law then we know we’re in John McDonell’s cosy little authoritarian nightmare

There's nothing wrong with criticism so long as its not constant. When it becomes focussed and constant on just one religeon then it could be seen as anti-semitic.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

There's nothing wrong with criticism so long as its not constant. When it becomes focussed and constant on just one religeon then it could be seen as anti-semitic.

Not imo.I’d say that hating people because of their religion is anti-semitism.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

There's nothing wrong with criticism so long as its not constant. When it becomes focussed and constant on just one religeon then it could be seen as anti-semitic.

Doesn’t that depend on what they are saying and whether it is true. If someone says it is a misogynistic religion, that would not be a spurious lie and such a religion is then open for criticism. Who gets to decide how much is constant - you it seems.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So it’s anti-semitic to criticise a religion?

The day that becomes a law then we know we’re in John McDonell’s cosy little authoritarian nightmare

Someone apparently looked it up, DR I think, and informed us all, after Islamophobia had been called out for what it is - a non-word, that the real word was anti-Semitic.

[DemolitionRed]

An couple of examples. Before WW2 and as the Nazi party were forming, a general distaste for Jewish people started to spread throughout Germany. This of course was prompted through propaganda media channels and radio. Was there a stirring of anti-semitism and if not why not?

More recently we've been the spectators of war in the Middle East by both tribal natives and the West. We then started to see terrorist attacks on our own shores and suddenly we were all talking about Muslims. Every day for years we have had something in one paper or other condemning the Islamic faith and on every political forum we've had many debates about the sinfulness of Islam. Is that a stirring up of anti-semitism? and if not why not?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

An couple of examples. Before WW2 and as the Nazi party were forming, a general distaste for Jewish people started to spread throughout Germany. This of course was prompted through propaganda media channels and radio. Was there a stirring of anti-semitism and if not why not?

More recently we've been the spectators of war in the Middle East by both tribal natives and the West. We then started to see terrorist attacks on our own shores and suddenly we were all talking about Muslims. Every day for years we have had something in one paper or other condemning the Islamic faith and on every political forum we've had many debates about the sinfulness of Islam. Is that a stirring up of anti-semitism? and if not why not?

Because before WW2 the Jews were not bombing the citizens of Germany, cutting off their heads, capturing women for rape and sex slavery etc. etc. etc. Hut hey, nice try in comparing the Muslim situation with the Holocaust. I'd laugh if I didn't think you were serious.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

Because before WW2 the Jews were not bombing the citizens of Germany, cutting off their heads, capturing women for rape and sex slavery etc. etc. etc. Hut hey, nice try in comparing the Muslim situation with the Holocaust. I'd laugh if I didn't think you were serious.

Oh please don't fake outrage Livia. I didn't for a single moment compare it with the Holocaust.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

An couple of examples. Before WW2 and as the Nazi party were forming, a general distaste for Jewish people started to spread throughout Germany. This of course was prompted through propaganda media channels and radio. Was there a stirring of anti-semitism and if not why not?

More recently we've been the spectators of war in the Middle East by both tribal natives and the West. We then started to see terrorist attacks on our own shores and suddenly we were all talking about Muslims. Every day for years we have had something in one paper or other condemning the Islamic faith and on every political forum we've had many debates about the sinfulness of Islam. Is that a stirring up of anti-semitism? and if not why not?

You answered it yourself

1.Yes obviously because “a general distaste for Jewish people“

2.No because “condemning the Islamic faith“

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

An couple of examples. Before WW2 and as the Nazi party were forming, a general distaste for Jewish people started to spread throughout Germany. This of course was prompted through propaganda media channels and radio. Was there a stirring of anti-semitism and if not why not?

More recently we've been the spectators of war in the Middle East by both tribal natives and the West. We then started to see terrorist attacks on our own shores and suddenly we were all talking about Muslims. Every day for years we have had something in one paper or other condemning the Islamic faith and on every political forum we've had many debates about the sinfulness of Islam. Is that a stirring up of anti-semitism? and if not why not?

Is it any different to how everyone was talking about the IRA in the 90s, Muslims lived in the UK then as well but they weren't talked about. there was plenty anti Irish rhetoric in the DM though, its just what is relevant at the time, there was no name for anti Irish rhetoric either

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Candy Cane

Is it any different to how everyone was talking about the IRA in the 90s, Muslims lived in the UK then as well but they weren't talked about. there was plenty anti Irish rhetoric in the DM though, its just what is relevant at the time, there was no name for anti Irish rhetoric either

Just use anti-Semitism, Cherie, seems it's now a catch-all phrase.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Just use anti-Semitism, Cherie, seems it's now a catch-all phrase.

I appreciate it is predominantly used to cover slights aimed at anything related to the Jewish and/or the Jewish faith... but why?
If Islamophobia is not acceptable as an umbrella term and Muslims are by definition Semites where's the issue?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I appreciate it is predominantly used to cover slights aimed at anything related to the Jewish and/or the Jewish faith... but why?
If Islamophobia is not acceptable as an umbrella term and Muslims are by definition Semites where's the issue?

Criticizing the religion of islam shouldn't need a special term, because in its current manifestation and the effects it has on the world, there is plenty to criticize.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Well go on, explain why...

You know why. Although it would be useful for Labour supporters who refuse to believe their own party is anti-Semitic. Now apparently, the term will cover Muslims. Which is interesting... Because Semitism was born waaaaaay before Islam. Islam is less than 2000 years old and Judaism over 5000 years old. But hey, if it suits your particular agenda, then go for it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Just use anti-Semitism, Cherie, seems it's now a catch-all phrase.

seems to be


I think I will make up my own

Paddyphobia

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Candy Cane

seems to be


I think I will make up my own

Paddyphobia

Opinionphobia.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

An couple of examples. Before WW2 and as the Nazi party were forming, a general distaste for Jewish people started to spread throughout Germany. This of course was prompted through propaganda media channels and radio. Was there a stirring of anti-semitism and if not why not?

More recently we've been the spectators of war in the Middle East by both tribal natives and the West. We then started to see terrorist attacks on our own shores and suddenly we were all talking about Muslims. Every day for years we have had something in one paper or other condemning the Islamic faith and on every political forum we've had many debates about the sinfulness of Islam. Is that a stirring up of anti-semitism? and if not why not?

I think the concerns by many about the aforementioned terrorism and hate-speeches/threats made on our streets from many of said religion as well as how we see women and others treated over-seas and here in the name of said religion puts a different slant on it not surprisingly.

It’s a completely different scenario to what the Nazis did to the Jewish people.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I think the concerns by many about the aforementioned terrorism and hate-speeches/threats made on our streets from many of said religion as well as how we see women and others treated over-seas and here in the name of said religion puts a different slant on it not surprisingly.

It’s a completely different scenario to what the Nazis did to the Jewish people.

I'm not talking about what the Nazis did to the Jewish people. I was talking about the rise of the Nazi party before the holocaust began. I was talking about how Jewish people were demonized and subjugated, not only by the rising Nazi party but by the German people.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm not talking about what the Nazis did to the Jewish people. I was talking about the rise of the Nazi party before the holocaust began. I was talking about how Jewish people were demonized and subjugated, not only by the rising Nazi party but by the German people.

Were the Jews' actions at the time comparable to a number of muslims' actions today?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by The_Hogfather

Were the Jews' actions at the time comparable to a number of muslims' actions today?

Even if it was, would the Jewish people of deserved what happened to them. The answer is a clear 'NO'.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm not talking about what the Nazis did to the Jewish people. I was talking about the rise of the Nazi party before the holocaust began. I was talking about how Jewish people were demonized and subjugated, not only by the rising Nazi party but by the German people.

But as far as I am aware the Jewish people didn’t have factions preaching hate and violence against them. They didn’t have millions pouring into their country and refusing to integrate into their way of life. Jewish people integrated well whilst still having their own religion and culture. They learned the language and were not trying to tell others how to live. They were generally very productive to the economy for example.

Many see a significant difference.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

But as far as I am aware the Jewish people didn’t have factions preaching hate and violence against them. They didn’t have millions pouring into their country and refusing to integrate into their way of life. Jewish people integrated well whilst still having their own religion and culture. They learned the language and were not trying to tell others how to live. They were generally very productive to the economy for example.

Many see a significant difference.

Neither do most Muslim families.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

An couple of examples. Before WW2 and as the Nazi party were forming, a general distaste for Jewish people started to spread throughout Germany. This of course was prompted through propaganda media channels and radio. Was there a stirring of anti-semitism and if not why not?

More recently we've been the spectators of war in the Middle East by both tribal natives and the West. We then started to see terrorist attacks on our own shores and suddenly we were all talking about Muslims. Every day for years we have had something in one paper or other condemning the Islamic faith and on every political forum we've had many debates about the sinfulness of Islam. Is that a stirring up of anti-semitism? and if not why not?

To be fair, attacks on the Jewish folks had been going on for centuries prior to the uprising of the Nazi party. Jews were primarily blamed for the killing of the jesus, which bred mistrust and led to lies such of blood libel (the murdering of Christian children for their blood) being laid against them.

The nazi's just made it a policy, but the resentment and mistrust of Jews had been built up by the catholic church in the middle ages.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

To be fair, attacks on the Jewish folks had been going on for centuries prior to the uprising of the Nazi party. Jews were primarily blamed for the killing of the jesus, which bred mistrust and led to lies such of blood libel (the murdering of Christian children for their blood) being laid against them.

The nazi's just made it a policy, but the resentment and mistrust of Jews had been built up by the catholic church in the middle ages.

That's true, they have spent centuries being demonized by different faiths and they still got demonized when they escaped Nazi occupation and came to places like the UK. We were very cruel to the escaping Jewish people. Most Jews arriving here, including my farther-in-law (as a small child) had to change their name and were advised not to let neighbors know they were Jewish. The Daily Mail put out daily propaganda about how the Jewish men were raping our women and kidnapping our children. English people were encouraged to fear the incoming Jews and that to me, feels very similar to what the Daily Mail is doing today. Different religion, same propaganda.

[Niamh.]

Deleted more posts in here, I'm just going to close the thread if you all can't stick to the topic and not eachother