[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The Serious debates feuds

We can’t leave Morsh behind and bewildered in the 2010s

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Morgan.

When they were young? The **** are you on about?! Non binary isn’t just some teenage phase people invented to be edgy.

They don't think they're being edgy, I know they genuinely believe they actually are nonbinary until they grow out of it.

[Morgan.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

They don't think they're being edgy, I know they genuinely believe they actually are nonbinary until they grow out of it.

You obviously didn’t pick up on my point. It’s not something people ‘grow out of’. Years ago people said the same thing about being gay - ‘oh it’s just a phase, you’ll grow out of it’ and, well, that didnt happen.

Honestly the world would be a better place if people just let others get on with whatever they want to and respect their wishes, it’s really not hard.

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Morgan.

You obviously didn’t pick up on my point. It’s not something people ‘grow out of’. Years ago people said the same thing about being gay - ‘oh it’s just a phase, you’ll grow out of it’ and, well, that didnt happen.

Honestly the world would be a better place if people just let others get on with whatever they want to and respect their wishes, it’s really not hard.

Preach it

[Morgan.]

I really hope anyone struggling with gender identity isn’t reading this thread in which someone has basically just told them they’re not valid or accepted and that they’ll ‘grow out of it’.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Morgan.

You obviously didn’t pick up on my point. It’s not something people ‘grow out of’. Years ago people said the same thing about being gay - ‘oh it’s just a phase, you’ll grow out of it’ and, well, that didnt happen.

Honestly the world would be a better place if people just let others get on with whatever they want to and respect their wishes, it’s really not hard.

Absolutely however things like this do impact on others so why does one persons rights trump anothers? Comparing someones sexual preference to something that's asking people to pretend they believe something they don't or else get taken to court/fired is ridiculous and quite frankly scary, 1984 territory. It's gotten to a point where people are saying biological sex is not real, sorry but I'm not going along with that. I challenge anyone to watch this video from Teen Vogue and not think that the world is gone insane

Youtube video

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Morgan.

I really hope anyone struggling with gender identity isn’t reading this thread in which someone has basically just told them they’re not valid or accepted and that they’ll ‘grow out of it’.

Nonbinary isn't the same as trans, people with actual issues regarding gender identity need all the acceptance and validation that's out there.

[Morgan.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Absolutely however things like this do impact on others so why does one persons rights trump anothers? Comparing someones sexual preference to something that's asking people to pretend they believe something they don't or else get taken to court/fired is ridiculous and quite frankly scary, 1984 territory. It's gotten to a point where people are saying biological sex is not real, sorry but I'm not going along with that. I challenge anyone to watch this video from Teen Vogue and not think that the world is gone insane

Youtube video

I do agree that legal action being taken over it is ridiculous, and of course biological sex is real. My point was more that people can and should be able to identify however they please and that should be accepted. It’s such a new thing, so those identifying with different pronouns or identities should also understand that it can be difficult for the average person to adapt or get used to that..

I have multiple nb friends, and yes I am guilty of using the wrong pronouns or deadnaming them just out of habit. They’ll normally just politely remind me, I’ll apologise, and we move on, which is how it should be.

But to completely disregard nb people and tell them its just a phase is uncalled for.

[Morgan.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Nonbinary isn't the same as trans, people with actual issues regarding gender identity need all the acceptance and validation that's out there.

Tell me where I said it was the same as trans

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Morgan.

I do agree that legal action being taken over it is ridiculous, and of course biological sex is real. My point was more that people can and should be able to identify however they please and that should be accepted. It’s such a new thing, so those identifying with different pronouns or identities should also understand that it can be difficult for the average person to adapt or get used to that..

I have multiple nb friends, and yes I am guilty of using the wrong pronouns or deadnaming them just out of habit. They’ll normally just politely remind me, I’ll apologise, and we move on, which is how it should be.

But to completely disregard nb people and tell them its just a phase is uncalled for.

Also, what about the census and issues that need actual biological sex information for services and planning and statistics? If sex and gender are different things then why is there a push to remove the F/M sex option and replace it with gender and non binary options? Imo Sex based information is important and it is reality and shouldn't be erased.

[Niamh.]

Just to add, I'm not trying to offend anyone here or be unsympathetic but to accept Non Binary as a thing, is to accept that stereotypes define men and women and as someone who's always been pretty feminist that seems like a massive step backwards for women (probably for men too but more so for women as we've spent years trying to get rid of those boxes)

[Morgan.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Also, what about the census and issues that need actual biological sex information for services and planning and statistics? If sex and gender are different things then why is there a push to remove the F/M sex option and replace it with gender and non binary options? Imo Sex based information is important and it is reality and shouldn't be erased.

I don’t know much about the whole F/M sex option so I can’t really comment in case I get something wrong or misinterpret. I would say though that a simple ‘Male, Female, Other’ option works fine, and if they need to know their biological sex then just change the wording of the question to ‘gender assigned at birth’.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Morgan.

I don’t know much about the whole F/M sex option so I can’t really comment in case I get something wrong or misinterpret. I would say though that a simple ‘Male, Female, Other’ option works fine, and if they need to know their biological sex then just change the wording of the question to ‘gender assigned at birth’.

To be honest I just find the whole concept of "gender" suffocating and stifling. When did we as a society stop trying to be individuals regardless of sex? This article explains my feelings on the whole thing better

https://medium.com/4th-wave-feminism...y-7a7e5ec539ba

[Morgan.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

To be honest I just find the whole concept of "gender" suffocating and stifling. When did we as a society stop trying to be individuals regardless of sex? This article explains my feelings on the whole thing better

https://medium.com/4th-wave-feminism...y-7a7e5ec539ba

I agree that we shouldn’t need labels to be able to identify however we like, but if that’s how somebody feels comfortable expressing themselves then who am I to tell them to stop.