[user104658]

Originally Posted by jet

There can always be improvements, but how is the way things are going nowadays going to improve anything? Do ‘the ‘UK is institutionally racist! Ott Warrior types think for example that throwing the accusation ‘racist’ around simply because some people dislike someone or people losing their jobs because they don’t believe what a mixed race person says is going to improve things or make them worse?

They must be thick if they think that kind of OTT behavior is going to lead to improvements. IMO they don’t care about improvements, they just want a reason to bring people and their country down.That is destructive and undemocratic.
Those that do this, don't put forward ideas on HOW to improve things, how to change minds that need changed, they just use accusations and aggressiveness which is totally counter - productive.

If there are issues, and you think other people's reactions and solutions to those issues are not going to work or even be counter-productive, surely the sensible thing to do is point out how/why you think those solutions are counter-productive or even contribute to the debate other ways in which you think things could be tackled, productively...

... ... the answer isn't just denying that the issue exists in the first place and bleating that anyone who has a problem with things "can just go live elsewhere"

[GiRTh]

Almost forgot, that bloke - no idea who he is or why he's relevant - says he's experienced a 'tiny' bit of racism. Whats a 'Tiny' bit of racism? and in comparison what would be a 'large' bit of racism?

Great vid LT.

[Liam-]

Well, if you don’t like our racism, you can bloody well bugger off can’t you

[Jordan.]

well this is the least racist country I can think of so why try be any better - this thread

[bots]

all we can realistically do is compare ourselves against other countries. People were quick enough to use that when discussing covid afterall. If there are other countries that are seen as better, then please name them.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

all we can realistically do is compare ourselves against other countries. People were quick enough to use that when discussing covid afterall. If there are other countries that are seen as better, then please name them.

It isn't all we can realistically do though! Even if we were literally the best in the world on this, what sort of reasoning is "Yeah there are still problems but who cares, we're better than everywhere else so let's stop trying to tackle those problems".

Why wouldn't it be "Wow we're doing great on this, but there are areas to keep looking at so let's do that".

How is it constructive to view it as a competition? In fact there's little if any reason to compare ourselves to other countries at all, other than to identify the things we're getting right in comparison, and to borrow ideas that might help in areas that still need work.

Honestly I just don't get the argument at all. If a kid goes to their school teachers and says "I'm being bullied", does the headmaster unveil a whiteboard with facts and figures showing that actually that school has the best record on anti-bullying of all the schools in the area and then insist that - with that in mind - this kid CANNOT possibly be being bullied, because it's not a school where much bullying happens, and if he doesn't like that reply he can bugger off elsewhere and "see how he likes it there"?

Or does he say, "We pride ourselves on being against bullying so we're going to stamp out the bullying that still exists here".

You'd hope for the latter and I apply the exact same logic here.

If Britain is one of the least racist countries in the world, then when remaining instances of racism are pointed out we should WANT TO STAMP IT OUT, because that's something to be proud of! What sort of reaction is "Umm we are not racist and if you think so you can **** off somewhere else". Just nonsense.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It isn't all we can realistically do though! Even if we were literally the best in the world on this, what sort of reasoning is "Yeah there are still problems but who cares, we're better than everywhere else so let's stop trying to tackle those problems".

Why wouldn't it be "Wow we're doing great on this, but there are areas to keep looking at so let's do that".

How is it constructive to view it as a competition? In fact there's little if any reason to compare ourselves to other countries at all, other than to identify the things we're getting right in comparison, and to borrow ideas that might help in areas that still need work.

Honestly I just don't get the argument at all. If a kid goes to their school teachers and says "I'm being bullied", does the headmaster unveil a whiteboard with facts and figures showing that actually that school has the best record on anti-bullying of all the schools in the area and then insist that - with that in mind - this kid CANNOT possibly be being bullied, because it's not a school where much bullying happens, and if he doesn't like that reply he can bugger off elsewhere and "see how he likes it there"?

Or does he say, "We pride ourselves on being against bullying so we're going to stamp out the bullying that still exists here".

You'd hope for the latter and I apply the exact same logic here.

If Britain is one of the least racist countries in the world, then when remaining instances of racism are pointed out we should WANT TO STAMP IT OUT, because that's something to be proud of! What sort of reaction is "Umm we are not racist and if you think so you can **** off somewhere else". Just nonsense.

and yet after all of the fluff you typed above, you still haven't named a country that is better

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

and yet after all of the fluff you typed above, you still haven't named a country that is better

Did you even read it? I was saying it's irrelevant, it doesn't matter. I haven't looked. If we are the best in the world, that doesn't mean we've "won" and get to stop trying to improve. Having less institutional racism than elsewhere doesn't mean we have none, or that people should "just be grateful it's better here than elsewhere". If it still happens at all it still happens too much and people should shine a spotlight on it, and anyone who is not themselves complicit in racism should be happy to HAVE a spotlight shone on it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

and yet after all of the fluff you typed above, you still haven't named a country that is better

An embarrassing response that shows that you didn't even read the post you quoted.

It doesn't matter if we've got the best approach to racism in the world, if there's areas to improve upon, pointing out that other countries are worse won't fix that problems, it just fuels our constant national arrogance and delusion.

To go back to the covid example you brought up earlier, it doesn't matter that we're vaccinating more people than most countries, it doesn't change the fact that the government's inaction led us to some of the highest death numbers in the world at points during this pandemic, being on top of a table doesn't mean we can't do better.

I'm so bored of nationalism, Covid and racism is not the ****ing premier league. Stop treating it as such.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

An embarrassing response that shows that you didn't even read the post you quoted.

It doesn't matter if we've got the best approach to racism in the world, if there's areas to improve upon, pointing out that other countries are worse won't fix that problems, it just fuels our constant national arrogance and delusion.

To go back to the covid example you brought up earlier, it doesn't matter that we're vaccinating more people than most countries, it doesn't change the fact that the government's inaction led us to some of the highest death numbers in the world at points during this pandemic, being on top of a table doesn't mean we can't do better.

I'm so bored of nationalism, Covid and racism is not the ****ing premier league. Stop treating it as such.

Simply untrue. I have posted a link to a Cambridge epidemiology professor who says the complete opposite. You have no idea about if the government did this or that deaths would be up or down; noone has.

It may be your opinion but that is all it is.

[Crimson Dynamo]

current Talk radio poll

Is Britain a racist country

NO 85%

87,000 votes

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

all we can realistically do is compare ourselves against other countries. People were quick enough to use that when discussing covid afterall. If there are other countries that are seen as better, then please name them.

Why don't you start us off by explaining how comparing ourselves is all that can be realistically done to tackle racism? I'm sure we'll be waiting longer for that reply than someone needlessly naming a "better" country.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The commission's report concluded that the UK is not yet a "post-racial
country" - but its success in removing race-based disparity in education and, to
a lesser extent, the economy, "should be regarded as a model for other
white-majority countries".

I hope these other countries learn from our success

"In a statement issued after the report was published, Prime Minister Boris Johnson said it was "right" that ministers now consider its recommendations in detail and assess "the implications for future government policy".

He added: "The entirety of government remains fully committed to building a fairer Britain and taking the action needed to address disparities wherever they exist."

[Livia]

Everyone on the Left is outraged by this report, while upholding there was never any anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. Because that's not real racism, is it.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Livia

Everyone on the Left is outraged by this report, while upholding there was never any anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. Because that's not real racism, is it.

Couple of facts.

No one said antisemitism doesn't/didn't exist in the labour party.

antisemitism within labour is lower than society as a whole.


I raised this same point albeit for different reasons; right wingers can't tell us there's no racism when they've been screaming about labour since Corbyn gave them a scare.

[The Slim Reaper]

Well then...

[The Slim Reaper]

Racists always get ahead of themselves to jump on anything that might initially appear favourable to them, until the eventual facts always drip out.

[Ammi]

...not a made to measure, built to fit...u wanna report ‘ere guvnor, I got some nice ones you’ll like ‘em.../type thing...?...surely not, surely...

[Alf]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Well then...

You can't trust Downing Street, it's full of Tories.

[Crimson Dynamo]

here is Doctor Tony, a black man, talking about the report wot he done

Youtube video

[Tom4784]

Well, well, well.

The silence certainly is deafening.

[Ammi]

....we got some nice headphones as well, guv’nor...u want nice headphones...?...made to order and fit ‘specially for that noise level....

[GiRTh]

Any level headed person knew this report was a bit too good to be true, but people got to hear what they wanted to hear.

[Crimson Dynamo]

not people still cross we are an inclusive and welcoming country?


colour me shocked

[Tom4784]

Imagine having the author and experts saying that Downing Street interfered with the report and still believing the report they put out.

It's sad how so many people in the UK seem to fear reality so much that they choose to abandon it and seek refuge in their preferred fiction. It's sad how people choose a comforting lie over the truth. I only hope one day, they can find the courage to rejoin the rest of us in reality.