[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You’re women so I can’t call your opinions and theories names? But it’s everybody else shielding themselves from scrutiny with their identity, got it

I think you can put your point across without implying I have nothing between my ears yes?

Where have I said that? There are opportunists in every group in the world, there always will be unfortunately, but there also aren’t hate movements against other groups to punish them for the wrong doings of those few people, the anti-trans movement hasn’t been about asking actual legitimate questions for a long time and everybody knows it, so let’s not get on this ‘hijacked movement’ nonsense

I think you can put your point across without implying I have nothing between my ears yes?

You keep mentioning hate, the only hating on anyone is the people who do not care about women's safety in society and look like they want us to live as second class citizens and will not enter to any meaningful discussion to address it

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think you can put your point across without implying I have nothing between my ears yes?

You keep mentioning hate, the only hating on anyone is the people who do not care about women's safety in society and look like they want us to live as second class citizens and will not enter to any meaningful discussion to address it

I said the comparison was braindead, not you personally, but you know that and just like to try and score points, crack on if you want to I guess

Nobody wants people to live like second class citizens, funny though considering every ‘debate’ that happens about this just seems to be had just included straight cis people, no sense of even wanting to hear from trans people, unless of course they agree with them, there’s never an actual balanced debate or discussion about it and that comes from both sides of the aisle

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Even trying to compare the trans rights movement to the horrific, historical, systematic abuse and cover ups of the church is actually just braindead

It's not, it's actually quite accurate as parallels go. The vast majority of clergymen were sincere religious people who would never have directly harmed a child. The church was seen as being beyond question and to do so was blasphemy. Paedophiles and sex offenders abused that, alongside the access clergy had to children, to commit terrible crimes against children with impunity. Various other members of the church, who would never harm anyone themselves, nonetheless either turned a blind eye ("it doesn't happen/it's not happening") or made excuses and covered things up to protect the image of the church, and in order to "not give the secularists ammo" to use against religiosity.

And that's why it's the same. The important part is the first part - the vast majority of trans people are sincere and would not directly harm anyone. Yes there are those out there who genuinely would rather there be no trans people - but that's far from the majority of people. Most people know and understand that genuine trans people just getting on with their lives are not a risk to anyone.

HOWEVER, the aggressive pursuit of "quick, unquestionable" progression of rights has led us to a situation where there was a hard pseudo-religious dogma around "not questioning" when it comes to LGBTQ issues, to do so is seen as a form of "blasphemy" and people branded bigots in the same way those questioning the church were branded heretics. It's all but inevitable that when a "shield" like that is created, individuals acting in bad faith will abuse that level of protection to circumvent safeguarding measures and access victims, and to get away with their activities for a prolonged time under the ruse that anyone who notices "is just a bigot".

And then you have the "allies". The people who would never harm anyone themselves... but will turn a blind eye, claim it's not an issue, or outright brush clear examples under the carpet, again for the exact same reasons - to protect the image of all LGBT people, and to not "give ammo" to the genuine bigots.



It is exactly the same. Sociologically speaking, the current LGBTQ+/Trans Rights (and a lot of other progressive activism) has more in common with religiosity than anything else. There are rules, there's dogma, there's accepted terms and enforced language. Unbelievers are cast out. People who start questioning are to be immediately regarded with suspicion. That's all religion.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Even trying to compare the trans rights movement to the horrific, historical, systematic abuse and cover ups of the church is actually just braindead

Fair Points


But should a 11 year old boy and girl
learn about anal sex?


To me, they are too young

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Even trying to compare the trans rights movement to the horrific, historical, systematic abuse and cover ups of the church is actually just braindead

That's not exactly what I said though is it? I said that paedophiles are opportunists and will use any loopholes, access or protections they can to get access to children like the way they used the Church for that reason. I didn't say it was on the same scale. No need for the insults either Liam, I thought you were on the "be kind" side of history?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Even trying to compare the trans rights movement to the horrific, historical, systematic abuse and cover ups of the church is actually just braindead

You going to keep pretending there isn't an alarming rise in attention seeking 'trans' people who treat women like garbage? , Whilst demanding respect yet shouting & threatening abuse at others ......When anyone doesn't agree with them they get screamed at "terf terf" , what intelligent conversations they must have with people . Most of them don't even have 'Gender dysphoria ', they just jump on tik tok to get views and to influence little kids to change their bodies,which is pretty scary.

And it is a fair comparison as any pervert will get to children anyway they can . And I hope you practice what you're saying re: "historical cover ups" , because the way things are going with this new trend of sex ed drag & story time drag, don't be surprised if there's a sudden pile of grooming abuse in schools, that's been missed....due to teachers going along with this nonsense in fear of being labelled a 'bigot' , therefore common sense goes out the window.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

You going to keep pretending there isn't an alarming rise in attention seeking 'trans' people who treat women like garbage? , Whilst demanding respect yet shouting & threatening abuse at others ......When anyone doesn't agree with them they get screamed at "terf terf" , what intelligent conversations they must have with people . Most of them don't even have 'Gender dysphoria ', they just jump on tik tok to get views and to influence little kids to change their bodies,which is pretty scary.

And it is a fair comparison as any pervert will get to children anyway they can . And I hope you practice what you're saying re: "historical cover ups" , because the way things are going with this new trend of sex ed drag & story time drag, don't be surprised if there's a sudden pile of grooming abuse in schools, that's been missed....due to teachers going along with this nonsense in fear of being labelled a 'bigot' , therefore common sense goes out the window.

Yes, there are people very angry that there’s a hate movement against an already marginalised demographic, orchestrated by the media and religious fundamentalists, absolutely there are, but there is also a large portion of the anti-trans movement which are just as hateful and spiteful, planning to turn up to a vigil for a dead teenager ti disrupt it because they don’t people paying respects to a trans person, hate and intolerance is a two way street.

And once again, nobody is influencing little kids to change their bodies, read something other than the daily mail please, I’m actually begging you, before you go further down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.

If there’s ever a full scale government and trans co-op coverup of abuse, then we can talk about the comparison being legitimate, until then, I won’t converse about things that haven’t happened just because you think gay people are perverts, soz.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yes, there are people very angry that there’s a hate movement against an already marginalised demographic, orchestrated by the media and religious fundamentalists, absolutely there are, but there is also a large portion of the anti-trans movement which are just as hateful and spiteful, planning to turn up to a vigil for a dead teenager ti disrupt it because they don’t people paying respects to a trans person, hate and intolerance is a two way street.

And once again, nobody is influencing little kids to change their bodies, read something other than the daily mail please, I’m actually begging you, before you go further down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.

If there’s ever a full scale government and trans co-op coverup of abuse, then we can talk about the comparison being legitimate, until then, I won’t converse about things that haven’t happened just because you think gay people are perverts, soz.

TBH it's fine to not want to discuss it so long as you aren't of the ilk who want to stop actual professionals, academics and safeguarding experts from discussing it, and will accept it when there are safeguarding issues identified and measures implemented, rather than applying political pressure for them to be ignored.

Unless we're pretending "that doesn't happen" as well.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yes, there are people very angry that there’s a hate movement against an already marginalised demographic, orchestrated by the media and religious fundamentalists, absolutely there are, but there is also a large portion of the anti-trans movement which are just as hateful and spiteful, planning to turn up to a vigil for a dead teenager ti disrupt it because they don’t people paying respects to a trans person, hate and intolerance is a two way street.

And once again, nobody is influencing little kids to change their bodies, read something other than the daily mail please, I’m actually begging you, before you go further down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.

If there’s ever a full scale government and trans co-op coverup of abuse, then we can talk about the comparison being legitimate, until then, I won’t converse about things that haven’t happened just because you think gay people are perverts, soz.

This is why the LGBTQ movement will just continue to go backwards. The progressive left will just keep adding extra alphabet soup letters = what is it now LGBTQIAA??, the maps have probably already sneaked into it .. without anything being said about it . There's no addressing of the hijackers, it's always turning a blind eye or instead name calling at anyone who disagrees.

you can't even have a proper discussion with me about the problematic issues. You've already accused me of thinking "gay men are all perverts", and I never said that .

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

This is why the LGBTQ movement will just continue to go backwards. The progressive left will just keep adding extra alphabet soup letters = what is it now LGBTQIAA??, the maps have probably already sneaked into it .. without anything being said about it . There's no addressing of the hijackers, it's always turning a blind eye or instead bane calling at anyone who disagrees.

you can't even have a proper discussion with me about the problematic issues. You've already accused me of thinking "gay men are all perverts", and I never said that .

I can’t have a proper discussion with you because you spout reactionary nonsense like ‘alphabet soup’ and sex offenders being welcomed into the lgbt fold, it’s complete jibberish you’re reciting because you’ve been told you should be scared of it

[Crimson Dynamo]

“A lot of children are just too traumatised to even talk to their parents," Eliza
Cox, vice-chairman of Marown Commissioners, told Energy FM Isle of Man.

Parents at the school launched a petition calling for an “immediate
investigation into the alleged actions of teachers delivering the age-
inappropriate material to children”.

The petition, addressed to the school’s headteacher and signed by more than
500 people, stated: “We consider the attendance of a ‘drag queen’ in class
and alienating students clearly confused about the information discussed
during this session wholly inappropriate.

“How, who and why was this guest speaker permitted to discuss gender
issues to an inappropriate child audience by an inexperienced and untrained
adult?”

A teacher at the school was said to be so uncomfortable with the content of
the PSHE curriculum that they told pupils: “Please don’t listen to me."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/school-su...ew-drag-queen/

[Zizu]

I’d be ok with far fewer labels

Hetero / Lesbian / Gay / Trans ..

There are kids with so many different labels to learn that they rarely think or talk about ANYTHING else .. it’s all-consuming .. sod actually trying to get an education!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Liam-]

Alright, completely avoid the point I made that’s fine, this place is fast turning into mumsnet, it’s actually wild

[Crimson Dynamo]

at the end of the day we have major 2 concerns here

1. why was a man dressed up as a sexualized caricature of a woman allowed into a school to abuse children with lies and inappropriate sexual material? WHat adult teacher agreed this?

2. Why did a man want to dress as a sexualized caricature of a woman and talk to children about adult sexual matters?

[bots]

the kids should have asked the guy to list the 73 genders

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the kids should have asked the guy to list the 73 genders

Yeah

[arista]

Yes LT


USA is far worse

[Cherie]

Nothing to see here, its only a minority....sucks for the kids but hey as long as the adults are okay thats fine and dandy

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes LT


USA is far worse

and the agenda is clear

[user104658]

The argument will be that "you can't use a few examples to say that all trans people are predators" and it's obviously true that the majority are not, however at this point, clearly - VERY CLEARLY - LGBTQ (and especially Q) is being used as a Trojan Horse by some very dangerous and troubled individuals to gain access to vulnerable people and groups. #

This should be a matter of serious concern to the entire LGBT community but there's seemingly a culture of denial/refusal to admit that there's any issue. I do actually understand the reasons, but at some point they're going to have to realise that, to a casual observer, this starts to look like complicity, and not just in the eyes of "bigots and -phobes".

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The argument will be that "you can't use a few examples to say that all trans people are predators" and it's obviously true that the majority are not, however at this point, clearly - VERY CLEARLY - LGBTQ (and especially Q) is being used as a Trojan Horse by some very dangerous and troubled individuals to gain access to vulnerable people and groups. #

This should be a matter of serious concern to the entire LGBT community but there's seemingly a culture of denial/refusal to admit that there's any issue. I do actually understand the reasons, but at some point they're going to have to realise that, to a casual observer, this starts to look like complicity, and not just in the eyes of "bigots and -phobes".

The liberal LGBT folk will always turn a blind eye and downplay it ,
and get defensive like they're personally being attacked in their home.

From what I've seen it's only the more right leaning / conservative minded ones who actually speak out against it ...I keep hoping more of them on a whole speak out , because regardless of your politics you should be seeing this as wrong and innapropriate .