[andyman]

That is so true, i dont want to buy mums & jugs monthly

[Sticks]

Originally posted by KawaiiSakura1
i hate Breastfeeding. no way will be Breastfeeding my baby when i have one. I'm to young to have one now

But according to the experts, it gives many benefits for both mother and child, and also is free.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by bigbr0ther
Hey, Gazbo, do you like to eat your meals in a bathroom?

I am afraid that the counter argument to this is, "Well me eating in public is not illegal"

This is the problem I have been stating, the law.

There are contrary legal opinions floating around as to whether it is illegal to breastfeed in public.

The press said that it in theory a mother could be charged with indecency or a public order offence, so someone has given them that legal opinion, that it may be unlawful.

The blogger I referenced earlier and the government minister in her letter gave a legal opinion to say the opposite.

The law will only be clearer in England and Wales, when we have proper statute law, along the lines of the law in Scotland, or when we have case law.

For case law to do it, a mother will have to be arrested for simply breastfeeding in public, and the CPS bringing a prosecution. It is suggested on the blog, the CPS will not be doing so, so a woman being made to accept a police caution would do it, but in that case it would confirm that breastfeeding in public would be illegal. If that would occur, given government policy, there would have to be emergency legislation. However this may come too late for the woman who may have been forced to sign the sex offenders register loosing her baby to social services in the process.

BTW is there anyone here with a working knowledge of the SS? Would they take a baby away because the mother had been made to sign the sex offenders register?

How likely is that scenario?

Not as far fetched as one would like

[KawaiiSakura1]

Originally posted by Sticks

But according to the experts, it gives many benefits for both mother and child, and also is free.

i don't give a s***t what the experts say i'm not doing it

[Sticks]

Out of interest, what was the nature of your objection?

[KawaiiSakura1]

Originally posted by Sticks
Out of interest, what was the nature of your objection?

It dosen't make any difference at all, my sister's baby was breast feed and he's not even one yet but he's had chickenpox and bronchitis even before he was six month's old so much for protecting you from infection.And women should not be made to feel like a bad mother if they don't want to do it.

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by Sticks

I am afraid that the counter argument to this is, "Well me eating in public is not illegal"

This is the problem I have been stating, the law.

I know from other posts that you are pro-breastfeeding so you should tell whoever made this argument that it is appeal to authority, a logical fallacy, and thus not valid.

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by KawaiiSakura1

i don't give a s***t what the experts say i'm not doing it

Why not babe? Breastfeeding reduces your baby's risks of cancer and diabetes later in life and nurtures a healthy bond between you and him/her.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by KawaiiSakura1
It dosen't make any difference at all, my sister's baby was breast feed and he's not even one yet but he's had chickenpox and bronchitis even before he was six month's old so much for protecting you from infection.And women should not be made to feel like a bad mother if they don't want to do it.

I was not trying to pass judgement, sorry if I came across that way, I do realise that for some this is not an option. There is a couple in our church who have had a new baby and that is the position.

What I was getting at, is that you have an aversion to this, and wondered what were the reasons? Did your sister have a bad experience?

[bigbr0ther]

^^ It's hello kitty!

[Sticks]

Originally posted by bigbr0ther


^^ It's hello kitty!

Que?

can we get back on topic?

[Sticks]

Yesterday I was in McDonalds and was speaking to a worker there about what happened in Bournemouth. They had not heard of the incident, but were aware of McDonald's pro-breastfeeding policy. I did think that after what had happened in Bournemouth, the corporate would have sent out some memo to remind staff, just so no one make that error again. They missed a golden opportunity.

[pinkmichk]

if a mother wants to breastfeed in public then there shouldnt be no issue its not like a mother is sat there with all on show and surely discreetly feeding a child is far better than a screaming baby
i know lots of mothers who have breastfeed and they all do it discreetly so it looks purely like they are giving their child a hug or they use slings or cloths etc to cover
i am a mother but didnt breastfeed as for me its just not me (fair play to those who do it plus at the time i wanted other people to be able to feed my daughter)
it has not affected our bond in the slightest we are incredibly close plus she is ahead for her age in almost everything which supposedly isnt supposed to be the case for bottle feed children
i think its actually ridculus that this is even up for discussion

[Sticks]

Originally posted by pinkmichk
if a mother wants to breastfeed in public then there shouldnt be no issue its not like a mother is sat there with all on show and surely discreetly feeding a child is far better than a screaming baby

SNIP

Originally posted by pinkmichk
i think its actually ridculus that this is even up for discussion

I am sympathetic to this, and I have witnessed at least two breastfeed in my presence.

It is an issue because there are still some who believe it should be banned in public and there are those who say it should be allowed.

I believe it should be allowed, and we should have the same legislation as they have in Scotland. I am not certain that it is not unlawful to breastfeed in public.

I have given links to blogs that says it is perfectly legal and even a statement by a government minister, but I am not sure that a government minister can deem something legal. The SDA 1975 has been cited as well as further anti-discrimination legislation, but these are civil laws, as far as I am aware, what counts is the criminal law, indeceny legislation and public order legislation.

The press said a mother could be charged under either. The blog and the Minister says that is not so with indeceny, but is that correct or is that just a legal opinion. This was why earlier I would like to see what happens if a mother discretely breastfeeding is arrested at least under those laws and possibly charged. Then we would see what the criminal law actually says

If she is let off, that sets a precedent one way, but if convicted, it should spur the government to bring in legislation to decriminalise it. In the case of a conviction, there may be a route through the Human Rights act, but that would be for the courts to decide.

[bigbr0ther]

http://www.gotopless.org/

Even though it's not about breastfeeding specifically, it's pretty much the same issue.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by bigbr0ther
http://www.gotopless.org/

Even though it's not about breastfeeding specifically, it's pretty much the same issue.

Thank you for that I think though if you want to discuss the issue raised in that website, best to start a new thread.

Back on topic

Today at another McDonalds I was talking to a member of staff and they told me that there was an incident where someone complained about a woman breastfeeding, and the complainers were told where to go. However she then said she told the woman a complaint had been made, even though she was not being told to stop. I did wonder if the mother should have been told as that could be seen as implied criticism of the mother.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Sticks

Thank you for that I think though if you want to discuss the issue raised in that website, best to start a new thread.

Back on topic

Today at another McDonalds I was talking to a member of staff and they told me that there was an incident where someone complained about a woman breastfeeding, and the complainers were told where to go. However she then said she told the woman a complaint had been made, even though she was not being told to stop. I did wonder if the mother should have been told as that could be seen as implied criticism of the mother.

But why should she be told to stop? If some people find someone in a cafe/restaurant have disgusting table manners and people complain, that person wouldn't be kicked out, spoken to or told to stop eating so why should a baby have to stop *eating*?

[Sticks]

I may not have been clear, the mother was not being reprimanded for breastfeeding at McDonalds, in fact the employee I spoke to was well aware of the pro-breastfeeding policy at McDonalds and was in favour of it, the mother was told that a complaint had been made, even if the complainers had been shown the door.

So the scenario is this

Woman discreetly breastfeeding

Another customer complains saying it is not appropriate.

The customers complaining are told in no uncertain terms that the store is in favour of breastfeeding, the mother will not be told to stop and if the complainers don't like it they can move.

So far so good

But should the mother be told someone objected?

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Tom
But why should she be told to stop? If some people find someone in a cafe/restaurant have disgusting table manners and people complain, that person wouldn't be kicked out, spoken to or told to stop eating so why should a baby have to stop *eating*?

I believe we are on the same side here, sort of.

I say sort of, because of the status of the law. If a mother breastfeeds in public, is she in breach of the criminal law?

Some say yes, like the various newspapers who reported on the Equality bill, others like the blogger and the minister, Barbara Follett MP say no.

Who is right?

Well that should be for parliament or the courts to decide.

The closest we got to an arrest was the 2005 case in Norwich when the police officer allegedly said to the breast feeding mother, "We can't do you for it" implying, they did want to do her for it.

I await either the first arrest to be made of a mother for breastfeeding an infant in a public place, to see how the courts decide and the fall out from that or preferably the enacting in the English law, the same legislation as they have in Scotland where it is a criminal offence to interfere with a woman breastfeeding.

The first option means a woman would have to be the proverbial sacrificial lamb, the second option would no one need suffer.

So perhaps it is time to lobby a few MP's to ensure the Equality Bill is passed and amended to remove the ridiculous six month upper limit.

[Sticks]

OK got more details on that incident at McDonalds from that employee

The guy who was the problem, was making rude gestures from what I heard and he was told to leave the woman alone. The woman was then told she was ok to feed her child, which is in accordance with McDonalds policy.

I did mention that I had wondered why McDonalds with it's declared pro policy did not have displayed the international breast feeding friendly symbol as it would avoid what happened in other McDonalds elsewhere, like Bournemouth and be good PR.

The view point from staff, seemed to be that although it is allowed, (corporate policy), they do not want to encourage it.

Is that the same as actively discouraging it - if so it does seem at variance with their stated policy

The female employee then kind of spoiled things by suggesting it would be easier if mothers bottle fed their babies as it would mean they would not have to expose themselves - Which mothers don't, I know because I once sat next to a mother feeding her son and she was very discrete I did point out, that the problem with botles is heating them up. This did seem like defeatest talk.

Anyway I have put my question to McDonalds about the symbol, and if they answer I will let you know.

[KawaiiSakura1]

Originally posted by bigbr0ther

Why not babe? Breastfeeding reduces your baby's risks of cancer and diabetes later in life and nurtures a healthy bond between you and him/her.

I'm sister's baby was breast feed and he's not even one yet but he's had chickenpox and bronchitis two time even before he was six month's old

[KawaiiSakura1]

Breastfeeding at McDonalds? come on we all don't want to see someone's breasts why we are eating at mcdonalds

[Sticks]

Originally posted by KawaiiSakura1
Breastfeeding at McDonalds? come on we all don't want to see someone's breasts why we are eating at mcdonalds I actually feel like vomitting

I once sat next to someone breastfeeding at a coffee shop, the way most mothers do it, they are mostly covered and it is discrete. You hardly see anything.

[KawaiiSakura1]

Originally posted by Sticks

I once sat next to someone breastfeeding at a coffee shop, the way most mothers do it, they are mostly covered and it is discrete. You hardly see anything.

mostly covered up is not covered up

[Sticks]

This is a feature on the BBC

Can you see anything?