[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by arista

People vaccinated up to and including 25 February 2021

First dose: 19,177,555

Second dose: 736,037

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Wow, that's amazing!

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

That’s expected anyways though when they’re all staying safe at home and not even getting visitors ?!


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[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zizu

That’s expected anyways though when they’re all staying safe at home and not even getting visitors ?!


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...but they have been doing that for months now...if it was that, rather than the vaccine, it wouldn't have taken til now to show

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Zizu

That’s expected anyways though when they’re all staying safe at home and not even getting visitors ?!


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I can kinda see this guy’s point though ..




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[Vicky.]

Gavins booked in for next friday now

Not had mine, but am probably about as low risk as they come..despite my experience with covid having me laid up for 2 days, and with an ongoing cough too

[Nicky91]

Netherlands: no new vaccinations done today

[arista]

[People vaccinated up to and including 27 February 2021

First dose: 20,089,551

Second dose: 796,132]

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[Vanessa]

We're getting there.
Can't wait for summer now. I want to go to the seaside

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

We're getting there.
Can't wait for summer now. I want to go to the seaside

All seasides will get busy
I would keep a good mask on outside

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by arista

All seasides will get busy
I would keep a good mask on outside

Yes definitely. I'll bring it with me.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

If they arent using it, just bloody give it to the poorer countries. Like, we are going t have to pool together and help them anyway really..no point letting it go to waste as there are sudden concerns, saying it might not be the best idea to give vaccines that seem rather likely to give side effects to a few people, to 95 year old cancer patients as the side effects could be more deadly than covid potentially (probably unlikely, on reflection but..my mother in law didnt even know she had covid, then got ill from the vacine fr a short time so definitely possible). I am not sure why thats news, like..it was not a good idea..and is almost impossble to monitor too including such high age groups, who could have died of a few things, could be the side effects, could not..like with that age group, I am sorry but its so up in the air for most, with any illness or potential treatment/meds/whatever, we need to admit that really. It seems to be much shouting about 'the over 60s' but the vast majority of over 60s will be fine, even if they DO get fluey symptoms for a day or two which seems about the worst of it?!

Like yeah, basically your average 100 year old might not handle a day or 2 of diarrhea well, shock horror. But, your average 60 year old potentially induces 2 days of bad stomach every weekend when allowed to by drinking or..other things!

Mixing in 'the over 60s' with the most in danger people on the planet really, at any stage, covid or no covid..is quite daft but seems to be happening a lot, totally illogical groupings for stuff? This appears to be behind a lot of the antivaxxing sentiment actually...this purposeful fudging between the extremely very very vulnerable very elderly or very ill population, with 'the over 60s' as if they are the same. They aren't..while the latter group includes the former, thats not to say the risks are anywhere near the bloody same. Yet on and on the media go...reminds me a bit of when they appeared to be trying to scare younger people into complying with restrictions actually..so it took quite some time for readily available figures on the acual demographic thats in danger here, to come out in the mainstream. Instead it was a barrage of 'X died from covid, only 20 and FIT!!!!' and stuff. I half blame the media reaction and OTT catastrophizing for many of the covid conspiracy crap really. I can sort f (if I squint hard enough and have a whiskey first) see why some assume its all a lie, based on the obvious manipulation that can often be proven easily, by a few secnds online. I find 'its fake' to be an extreme reaction to media manipulation though, I have to say. Much more likely to have a 'media is doing what media does, irresponsibly IMO during the pandemic, but never the less, doing whats expected and will see their copies sold...but they are constantly being total dementors right now, so I will look at actual stats/hospital records, etc, instead of taking the media as gospel.' reaction though myself, seems more logical than assuming its all just made up, for seemingly no reason. Plausible?

A family member of a friend is actually thinking of taking action against their local rag (luckily it did not hit any of the bigger papers..that would be a hell of a fight in court eh..) I think it was, as they used their young teens death to be a 'stay at home' thing, when he actually killed himself because of the restrictions (obviously not just because of that as suicide is never really about one thing and its quite irresponsible to make out it is according to the samaritans, but that seemed the 'trigger' as it were, there were issues before). It was worded vaguely, really, but most would read it as died OF covid, commentors were saying that off the back of it, on the whole. She says its the purposeful angling of it she dislikes most..and also fears making them retract could inspire suicides. Long story short, despite this being a life story seemingly..was her that got me so interested in samaritans guidelines about suicide, and basically, even reporting on a suicide in the area, can inspire more, its often almost social contagion they say, hence all the hell on about 13 reasons why 'suicide baiting'. Apparently pretty much any mention of suicide, especially around vulnerable people (or giving specific details, like the reasons given, or method and such), is like a rag to a bull :S

The above para was not me trying to minimise the risks or anything. I do know it seems luck of the draw and some people, some very young and fit, have died, seemingly randomly at times. I can acknowledge the risk, while also thinking the media have behaved more twatty than usual and have fueled a LOT of the panic aroud this topic, the panic buying for sure, the hugely irrational fear so many friends seem t have, about being about t drop dead the second they leave their house, despite being like..mid twenties, fit as a fiddle, and so on...potentially the panic over vaccines too. Though interestingly, that seems to have, among those I know, came from the LACK of media reporting about the actual likely side effects/how many are actually getting them, along with the claim..and not sure if this is true but seen it said,,that theres been no publicising death rates from the vaccine either. I cannot believe we finally have a vaccine that won't kill anyone, and I have sympathy with the press there as they cannot d right for ding wrong really. Admit some are dying (mainly VERY old and frail though, which does matter with the topic really. And face cries of 'you are scaring people away from it' 'antivaxxer!!!' or, dont report and look bad. Rock and hard place with some stuff, but the mainstream reporting has been dire, and almost even the total opposite at times to what the actual numbers were saying :S

So to me, common sense approach. Which would definitely mean get on with using the vaccines you have, or risk just chucking them when thats so bad for everyone really. IF you are worried about it, give it to others who will put it to good use, no need in wasting, especially now!

TLDR as this has gone on a bit...give them out or give them away. And press, reign it in ffs. I swear the only fitting word for so many of them through this is...dementors.

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Yes definitely. I'll bring it with me.

If it makes you feel safer then no reason not to. I can see loads keeping on with the mask thing even when its not needed. Makes a lot of sense really, if..for example..you have to go to work with a cold or something..stop spreading it about. I think if you are wearing it for your own peace of mind though, its worth getting a proper one rather than a cloth one? Will touch on this later but it seems the cloth ones offer minimal (if any) protection for the wearer, and apparently some things, like snoods I think it was, could potentially make you MORE at risk not less. Am personally not convinced masks are the magic bullet that some seem to think, and evidence is sketchy (and yes, there seems to be some 'both sides' and not even sure whats fake or biased or whatever either) but in short..I cannot see them making things worse aslong as the wearer is not being a dick and expecting a cloth mask to give them protection to lean in someone elses space and cough, or something...assming a basic level of sense when I say that, that seems lacking in a few of the public from what I have seen tbf. And they can potentially make things better though we cannot really prove it (I wouldnt necessarily say masks/distancing/measures basically eradictating flu is a good thing either, though I can see why some would think that, especially given the death numbers this year generally speaking...if we had had a 'normal' flu season ontop it would have been horrendous) I think if its worked that well on flu, its chance to have worked quite well on covid also (though apparently they spread VERY differently. But logic does kind of say, given theres been so little (other) illness this year, chances are the measures have also impacted covid fairly heavily Bloody hell, proofreading that before posting even though will have errors anyway, and my god, that was a longwinded way of saying, get a mask that actually protects you as am not too convinced on most masks ability to keep YOU safe, rather than 'just' those around you.

Read some huge paper thing that said with flu you can expect every person to infect 2 more or something, and thats what the modelling early in the pandemic was based on. Said thats why they were so off..basically. As apparently SARS spreads in...clusters rather than every person infecting a few others? So covid spread has been basically a huge, international superspreader event..with loads spreading at the same time. Memory says 1/10 people are expected to infect like..near all the others who are infected too. Came across like..if you have 10 people with flu, the average will spread it to 2 people and it will be about even spread, as such, spread could be tracked with test and trace. Apparently test and trace fell at the first hurdle as...10 people with covid, 9 will probably not pass it to anyone. 1 will infect 20 people (numbers off and made up), the theory was that test and trace as we were ding it was backwards, as you dont want to forward contact trace, what you need to do is look for cluster outbreaks, and find out where they came from, then quarantine that person who started the cluster by quarantining every person who was there at the time of the cluster...made so much sense (and was backed up with much SARS related studies and such too) but I may be explaining wrong. I can try and find the paper thing if anyones interested and am not just waffling into nothing for arista to say 'thank you wise vicky' or something, then ignored I remember it made so much make sense to me. Even the likes of how some countries/areas were hit much harder, seemingly randomly, and how some countries who got a quick lid on it managed to stay that way (backwards tracing)



IF we could feasibly 'get rid of noro' I would literally pay any amount, I would save for life to be able to never see that thing again believe me, unfortunately, while its been good having no illnesses all year...I see a disaster waiting to happen really once things 'open' properly and theres proper mixing outside of hospitals/work..as an aside, covid secure is such bollocks. Some places you can make it 'safer', or a few inches more spread out which will technically help I guess, but the things being classed as 'secure' have been quite pitiful from the start. Some bars I saw did REALLY good mind, and went above and beyond the usual guidelines and I did feel much 'safer' there, though 'safety' I think is...silly to ask when you are going to the pub for a drink really. Seems a bit daft to me, to expect the staff to baby you in such a way, when you are knowingly taking a risk? Might be in the minority there though. Seems too much mucking on, for the sake of a few centimeters in asome cases. Which theoretically will help with distancing, but not really. Our local chippy declared itself totally covid secure, IIRC actually went to the point of saying that noone will ever catch covid here (which seemed a nightmare waiting to happen but its a little town, they may have got away with it!) and all they had done, was put some tape on the floor, showing the way to go in..god knows why they switched the usual entrance and exit at the same time, so you can imagine how well that went. I have yet to see anyone be told to stay to the lines or go the right way either, so yeah, thats covid secure apparently

Until we have a universal vaccine for all nasty bugs which am almost sure will never happen, I do think we should expect a LOT of illnesses this coming year mind. I mean, even after 6 weeks off school...my kids almost always catch at least 3 bugs in their first month or so back, once mixing with other kids again..I think a lot of people underestimate how gross so many kids actually are. As a way t try and explain this, at this point I will let the forum know that only 2 weeks back, I had to tell my son to stop licking the inside of his sisters nose man...and she was giggling away letting him too. And this is while they also are aware to be more hygienic than usual!

Basically this is...a years worth of carefulness and extra cleaning...and it probably (most likely tbh) doesnt work this way, but I kind of picture a dam about to break, with illnesses (not covid, dont worry!) behind it, ready to sweep the country. This is along with my doomsday prediction of some alcohol/sanitizer/soap resistant superbug appearing in the near future..which I REALLY hope I am wrong about but my NHS mother put it in my head months back and I have been worried since really. Bundle of joy this morning eh...

I am genuinely wondering if noro does go round as I am dreading. Question I am wondering is while death numbers are being kept in the press, will noro death rates be mentioned? Or will it remain covid only.. I am not meaning that from a 'covid is not that bad' kind of view, though I know its usually said that way, my reason for asking is basically..the carehome besides my dad had an outbrea of noro a few years back, and staff said 8 of the residents actually died. There was 'reportedly' a huge outbreak on the maternity ward in our local round about the time I was due to have skye, I only remember it as it scared the crap out of me and everyone kept saying 'its ONLY noro...its fine!' which really put me in a rage..when I went in that outbreak was gone like, but the nurses kept going on about sme young mother who had died because of it, and another who was in intensive care...lack of fluids apparently, which culd happen anyway if severe, but was likely linked to blood loss/exhaustion too I think coz it sounded like she had such a rough ride in general (was told that bit by other women on ward, not staff..when I was whinging about 30 hour labour, being denied drugs/admission despite obvious progress and stuff, being cut without them actually asking, and stitches resulting from that, they told me a REAL horror story to shut me up I think!) So...even illnesses that are just kinda annoying to most (horror to me, with emetphbia though, literally my worst nighmare and maybe why am focussing on it so much now) are deadly as **** to carehomes, and some areas in hospitals it seems. The year my gran died (so like 4 years back maybe) flu finished off 3 of the residents over winter I used to get a bit depressed when the staff would tell us stuff like that...they are so so frail, its terrifying really.

Anecdotally, a friend who works in the NHS(admin, not frontline) has been suffering with a mask for a while and now has a sicknote basically stating its a reasonable adjustment to give her own office, or allow no mask in some other way, or allow her to work from home (they had her homeworking for the first month or so, but now its 'not possible' which she finds odd as apparently they all got a lot of praise for how well it was going and were tld productivity was UP..where I would have thought the opposite would happen really, like, so many I knew 'worked from home' but spent the days in the garden drinking and sunbathing, while answering the occasional call, actually started assuming that was the norm, but of course people/sectors will be different)...and since that, in 2 months not sure if its bad timing or anything (think I may be suffering confirmation bias, and looking too much into this though, as I remain convinced this year wil be a very ill one for a lot), but shes had 2 colds, and a sickness bug :S You wouldnt think masks make that much difference, especially to the wearer (been touted for ages you wear a mask to protect others..incase anyone starts (exception n95 I think? Which protect wearer and others), as have had this SO many times on facebook.) but...from my huge data pile of...1...I have decided I am indeed right and we will have a constant runny nose and bad tummy, prob from about may onwards! If it doesnt happen, its a bonus at this stage, I have worked myself up so much..


Lowkey expecting TS to pick me up on where am remembering the SARS/flu spreading stuff wrong though, as he seems tibbs resident scientist recently, on covid stuff anyways

TLDR; like most? Get a mask that protects you if it makes you feel better, dont rely on cloth ones if you are worried about being next to people outdoors, random illness filled year doomsday rant and probably broken/misremembered science and waffle. No point as such, besides hoping vanessa enjoys her day at the beach!

[arista]

[Vicky.]

****s sake, the size of that post...have been trying to do it for over an hour now and...what a wall of text

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

****s sake, the size of that post...have been trying to do it for over an hour now and...what a wall of text

Well worth it Vicky.
A bloody good read.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Well worth it Vicky.
A bloody good read.

Haha glad someone did, thanks..

I ate when I get all soapboxy and put walls and walls and always kind of stress that noone at all will answer Not that it matters, but the small things seem to..very odd on here

[Ammi]

...I’ve just read you post, Vicky..(...because you incredibly took that time to make it with stuff going around in your thoughts.....)...I’ll need to absorb it a bit more and maybe re-read, which it deserves...but as great as your thoughts always are, I really wish I could see you sleep more and your head to have a little rest...

...anyway...

...just going back to one bit and the suicide of a family friend’s child...I’m so very, very sorry......I’ve always felt and said and experienced myself that not everyone has lived the same COVID and lockdown etc...one particular thing that happened on a family/pupil video call in the first lockdown, is something that will be there forever with me...the mental stress/anxiety for some has been horrific and I think, very long lasting into futures and I fear, will ‘mould’ some lives in terms of future mental health, also....and my big fear also, is that funding won’t allow for enough health care for the ‘mental fallout’ of these times we’re experiences and what some families have gone through...all too, too sad...


...(...please try to rest your thoughts a little, though and get more sleep...)...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

****s sake, the size of that post...have been trying to do it for over an hour now and...what a wall of text

Nice of you to bless us,
with that.

[Cherie]

I haven't had the opportunity to read war and peace yet, but I will

The situation with the vaccines in the EU needs addressing swiftly though, it was only three weeks ago Bojo was being urged to stop vaccinating once the over 50s were complete and hand over surplus to poorer countries

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I haven't had the opportunity to read war and peace yet, but I will

The situation with the vaccines in the EU needs addressing swiftly though, it was only three weeks ago Bojo was being urged to stop vaccinating once the over 50s were complete and hand over surplus to poorer countries

Some of them don't want the vaccine.
I think they should donate it to those countries who can't afford it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Some of them don't want the vaccine.
I think they should donate it to those countries who can't afford it.

yeah I mean I get it given what has been said by Macron etc, though he seems at odds with the EMA over that, but they need to ship them on, it's unlikely the public will change their mind I think

[smudgie]

I can totally understand your worry about going into hospital to have Skye.
Docs wanted me in about 15 months ago after 4 months of antibiotics failed to sort my leg out.
Anyhow I refused, and they continued with more antibiotics, we manage to dress the leg ourselves so no need for hospital, and it cleared up not long after.

[bots]

i do agree with Vicky. Misinformation ferments distrust. and we have had misinformation from scientists, the government and the media. The media have an awful lot to answer for and when the inquiry finally happens, i hope their role in it all is highlighted too. I have always had a certain contempt for the media, but they have been several levels worse during this pandemic

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i do agree with Vicky. Misinformation ferments distrust. and we have had misinformation from scientists, the government and the media. The media have an awful lot to answer for and when the inquiry finally happens, i hope their role in it all is highlighted too. I have always had a certain contempt for the media, but they have been several levels worse during this pandemic

So much rationale from those who seem to believe the (obvious nonsense really) conspiracy theories about it all being fake and that...I really can see how they got to the point of not trusting anything they read/heard. There has been a steady stream of misinformation for like a year now, just tapping away. Its easy to see why people turn to 'alternate sources' really.

Other conspiracy theories often shoved into the same bracket, STILL include anyone saying they think theres even a tiny possibility, that it could have been a lab leak. I guess thats maybe 'the opposite end' of the problem in a way, as..not sure if its me spending too long online thinking but..that one genuinely seems so plausible to me. Infact, it seems more likely that other explanations I have heard, about cross species, perfect storm, etc. I think being labelled a 'covid denier' forviews such as the above is kind of counterprductive? Hell, I was called a denier for questioning if it was time to end lockdown. Thats not a bloody denier to me?! Militant, battlegrunds drawn stuff like that just pushes people further to the extremes really. Accuse people of being a denier, chances are they might look up the arguments, and honestly, a few I have seen are semi believable if you were already kind of in the mindset for a huge scandal, if that makes sense. A lot of conformation bias searching would probably happen. But..its easy to see why the extreme factions appear to be growing really :S

My dad said a while back, it will be 50 years before 'the truth' is all there really. So it seems, I shall pass on the baton to Skye/James, as I plan to be LONG gone by then thanks!

[user104658]

The absolute worst of the media in terms of the pandemic has been flipping from "Reeeee the virus! Stupid government saying go out when people are getting sick!" straight to "Reeeee the lockdown! Stupid government telling us to stay home when mental health is suffering" as soon as one or the other is in effect.

I'm no fan of the govt response in general and it's a nuanced topic and a balancing act between physical and mental health effects, yes, but where is that nuanced discussion in the press? They just flop from one extreme to the other... It's almost like gaslighting.