[Omah]

Originally Posted by arista

Sure they can save there lives but not the tanks and other Army Trucks.

They have bunkers hidden I would think.

Cruise missiles can go down air-shafts and find their way round tunnels .....

[Omah]

1850: France's air force has destroyed some tanks and armoured vehicles in Libya, a French defence ministry official confirms. Al-Jazeera had reported earlier that four Libyan tanks were destroyed to the south-west of Benghazi.

1904: A US defence official tells Reuters that the US Navy has three submarines in the Mediterranean preparing for operations in Libya.

#
1921: US President Barack Obama will make a statement on Libya to reporters in Brasilia, Brazil, within the hour, the White House says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[arista]

The yanks
have Fired some long range missiles
hitting East Tripoli


SkyNews
and Fox News

[Omah]

#
1954: Reuters quotes a senior US military official saying US, British, French, Italian and Canadian forces are to launch a strike along the Libyan coast.

[arista]

Our Tornado Jets

[Grimnir]

West intervene because they claim Gaddafi killing his own people and they emphasise the world brutally everytime they appear?

How many innocent people will die from all the bombings that will happen?

Its pathetic and everyone so blind to the truth

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12796972

The UK, the US and France have begun attacking Libya as enforcement of the UN-mandated no-fly zone gets under way.

Pentagon officials say the US and the UK have fired more than 110 missiles.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Oh ****. the beginning of world war 3 ya'll!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Oh ****. the beginning of world war 3 ya'll!

I don't think it will get to that point but a new precedence has now been set as to where in a Country's civil war, outside intervention with UN backing is on the agenda.
Libya will not be the last Nation in the area to have this unrest and if we go in for one then after that it will hard not to follow on into other Countries.
That will be a massive problem and also a very long and arduous involvement that will drain the West and the UK particularly.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

0028: A US military spokesman, Vice-Admiral William Gortney, has said the initial air and missile strikes by Western powers were "just the first phase of what will likely be a multiphase military operation designed to enforce the United Nations resolution and the deny the Libyan regime the ability to use force against its own people". "This is an international military effort urged by the Libyan people themselves and by other Arab nations," he told a news conference in Washington.

Shock and awe .....

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418



Shock and awe .....

No, not shock and awe, surgical strikes, to take out fixed air defence positions, military command and control centres etc.

Tomahawk Cruise Missiles are more accurate and reliable than even laser guided smart bombs. Only one integrated system to go wrong, whereas you have the bomb, its guidance and control system then a separate laser targetting system.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Shasown

No, not shock and awe, surgical strikes, to take out fixed air defence positions, military command and control centres etc.

Tomahawk Cruise Missiles are more accurate and reliable than even laser guided smart bombs. Only one integrated system to go wrong, whereas you have the bomb, its guidance and control system then a separate laser targetting system.

So the Libyan Army and Air Force won't be shocked and awed, then .....

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omah

So the Libyan Army and Air Force won't be shocked and awed, then .....

Not if they have any sense. If they work at a fixed air defence position (Medium Air defence Missile, entrenched ant aircraft cannons) or any of the other probable targets (C&C centres, etc). They would be well advised to keep their ears open.

If they hear a buzzing (cruise missile motor) they should either bend over and kiss their arse goodbye or run rapidly away from the position.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Not if they have any sense. If they work at a fixed air defence position (Medium Air defence Missile, entrenched ant aircraft cannons) or any of the other probable targets (C&C centres, etc). They would be well advised to keep their ears open.

If they hear a buzzing (cruise missile motor) they should either bend over and kiss their arse goodbye or run rapidly away from the position.

Ah, so just just a minor inconvenience .....

[Grimnir]

cameron just admitted the real reason they attacking libya

i heard the words come out his mouth stood outside downing street

he said what they doing is in UK's interest

just like same thing Blair said back during Iraq war

how has invasion of Iraq benefitted UK? unless hundreds of dead soldiers and billions of pounds spent is considered a benefit by government

bunch of evil people they are

even though the propaganda is so transparent most people STILL fall for it, even after it was proven they lied about Iraq

retarded public

[arista]

Rubbish he said we can not standby and let him kill all the people.


WarMonger Evil Blair had Ground troops
so this is nothing like Iraq.


Iraq was a Criminal Invasion.

[Grimnir]

I saw him say it on the news at around 6am

I listen carefully to all the politicians say

It is exactly the same as Iraq

They want to take control of Libya same as they wanted to take control of Iraq

[Grimnir]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12797618

watch it quickly before they take off the air

at the very end he says its in our nations interest

all what he says before is a script, the end he slips out the truth

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

1003: Planes from Denmark are among the Western aircraft arriving at Mediterranean bases. Danish Defence Minister, Gitte Lillelund Bech, said she hoped the mission succeeded in bringing Col Gaddafi to justice. "The military action is not about killing Gaddafi. My hope is that what we can do is that we can make sure we can get Gaddafi, we can put him towards the International Criminal Court, and then it will be the International Criminal Court who actually judges him."

[Grimnir]

watching nicky campbell debate show on tele

everyone getting their knickers in a twist

most interesting part so far was a very knowledgeable guest stating a number of the rebels have been identified as terrorists previously wanted by the US

before that they were repeating over and over again how Gaddafi is killing his own people and killing innocent people, yet when someone mentions that some of the rebels are known terrorists the room fell silent

at the start someone said if we dont intervene hundreds of people are gonna die, then someone raised them and said if we dont intervene thousands of people are gonna die, then some crazy nutjob pulled a royal flush and said if we dont intervene 700,000 people are gonna die

talk about over exaggeration in the extreme

so this rebel army is 700,000 strong? really? most i ever seen on tv coverage is more like 70 maybe i would add a zero if i used my imagination. but 700,000? dont think so somehow

a terrorist with a gun is not an innocent civilian in my opinion

an innocent civilian is someone walking past a building that gets hit by a huge bomb with made in UK on the side

[joeysteele]

I think that's a good point and also part of the problem on this one, it may well be that some of those rebelling against Gaddaffi are indeed terrorists, what are we going to do, help put them into power in Libya?
It's why I still agree with Kelvin Mckenzie after QT on Thursday.we don't know who all these people are that are taking a stand against the Libyan dictatorship,we don't know who we are really benefiting by being involved in this and we should not be there at all.

[Omah]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yvonne_Fletcher

WPC Yvonne Joyce Fletcher (15 June 1958 – 17 April 1984)[1] was a British police officer who was shot and killed in London's St James's Square while on duty during a protest outside the Libyan embassy. Her death resulted in a police siege of the embassy, which lasted for eleven days. The shooting also caused the breakdown of diplomatic relations between the United Kingdom and Libya. Her death was the third murder or manslaughter of an on-duty mainland British policewoman, only 18 months after the first.

Fletcher was born in Wiltshire and joined the Metropolitan Police in 1977. At 5 ft 2ľin (159 cm) tall, she was believed to be Britain's shortest police officer (at the time, police officers were generally subject to minimum height requirements).

Nobody has ever been convicted of her murder, though after 15 years the Libyan government finally accepted responsibility for her death and agreed to pay compensation to her family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign...kerbie_bombing

In November 1991, two Libyan intelligence agents, Abdelbaset al-Megrahi and Lamin Khalifah Fhimah, were charged with the December 1988 Lockerbie bombing. Libya refused to extradite the two accused to the U.S. or to Scotland. As a result, United Nations Security Council Resolution 748 was approved on March 31, 1992, requiring Libya to surrender the suspects, cooperate with the Pan Am Flight 103 and UTA Flight 772 investigations, pay compensation to the victims' families, and cease all support for terrorism. The UN imposed further sanctions with Resolution 883, a limited assets freeze and an embargo on selected oil equipment, in November 1993. In 1999, six other Libyans who had been accused of the September 1989 bombing of Union Air Transport Flight 772 were put on trial in their absence by a Paris court. They were found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment.

The Libyan government eventually surrendered the two Lockerbie bombing suspects in 1999 for trial at the Scottish Court in the Netherlands and UN sanctions were suspended. On January 31, 2001, at the end of the Pan Am Flight 103 bombing trial, Megrahi was convicted of murder and sentenced to 27 years in prison. Fhimah was found not guilty and was freed to return to Libya. Megrahi appealed against his conviction but this was rejected in February 2002. In 2003, Libya wrote to the UN Security Council admitting "responsibility for the actions of its officials" in relation to the Lockerbie bombing, renouncing terrorism and agreeing to pay compensation to the relatives of the 270 victims.

Of course, there's lots more Libtan state-sponsored terrorism and aggreaaion :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Libya

[joeysteele]

Indeed Omah, you are right to point out those things, it shows that Gaddaffi has not turned into a tyrant/dictator/west hated figure just over the last few weeks,he always has been but I feel sure you may agree that none of those things you listed prompted military action at those times against him and Libya by our then Govts.

Throughout the last 15 years, the UK govt has edged closer to Libya despite all those events you list,wrongly in my view.

So why does those events not justify action against Gaddaffi then, while something now that he is likely doing to his own people but not directly at us or the West does.

Why don't we help the suffering of Burma for instance, their legitimate opposition leader has lived in fear of her own life for decades and been under house arrest until recently,what about what Mugabe does to his people,we turn a blind eye to that, what will we do if Saudi Arabia rebels against its rulers.where will all this end?

In my view we should have never have started to get involved,we are hated enough in the region anyway,if its true that any civilians get killed because of these air strikes and they will because you can never be sure you cannot not kill civilians in these actions, then the opinion and tide will turn against the UK and its allies doing this.
As a Nation we are hardly ever going to be top of the pops in these areas of the World.

I hope the people get rid of Gaddafi,I hope a better power and govt. comes for Libya from it, but like with Tunisia and Egypt,it is for them to do it not outside intervention from us.

[Grimnir]

When it was Gaddafi and his army vs rebel forces I didn't care which side won really as they both as bad as each other. Only thing that bothered me was the incessant lies of the media and government and we are backing one side over the other. Reason they backing rebels is they want Gaddafi out, they want regime change, they want to take control. Deja vu Iraq. They even using the same script they used for justifying Iraq invasion.

But now the west is bombing the country and innocent civilians will die, could be hundreds or even more, It makes me angry and sad because these people would not be dying if UK and US kept their noses out of other countries business and stop stirring up trouble throughout the middle east.

As well as innocent Libyans dying in may well lead to future terrorist attacks in this country.

[joeysteele]

The moment there is any substantiation of innocent civilian people in Libya being killed as a result of the UK,USA,French air strikes then most certaianly that will be used massively against the West, the death of civilians by outside forces is unacceptable,especially with no declaration of war between the Countries involved.

It will lead to a massive condemnation by States who hate the West as to propaganda of the West trying to dictate who rules where and it is sadly, as Grimnir says above, very likely to increase the likelihood of severe terrorist attacks against the coalition forces Countries.

We should keep our noses and our forces out,unless we are directly threatened by Nations.