[Pyramid*]

All manner of things are the catalyst to a person taking their own life.

From someone who was left having to deal with the aftermath: I have a double edged view on this. Is it selfish? Yes - for those that are left but I do not for one second imagine that the person committing the act can see further than trying to 'stop the pain/suffering/ending the problem' - so intense it is for them. They feel there is no other way out and aren't able to rationalise past that because they are emotionally not in the right place. From the point of those left behind - I think it is selfish - albeit not being done out of selfishness deliberately: that's the kicker, it's not a deliberate attempt at being selfish: but of not being able to see any other way out, and the mistaken belief that the family is better of without them - they believe THEY are the cause of the problem.

Many of us with a few decades under our belts, have gone through life being 'pushed to the limit / depressed / stressed /worried sick' to the point that we think we cannot take any more: not to the point of being suicidal: but to the point that we think we will 'crack' if having to put up with more 'pressure' - imagine that on a very grand scale - and that's what I imagine the person planning to take their own life has reached. They simply 'crack'.

The flip side is that I think it takes an unparalled amount of courage to go about ending your life to ensure that there are no mistakes and that it will result in death - I cannot even begin to imagine the fear inside as the person makes those final steps and stages - to not stop. Particularly when it is a suicide that is not 'quick' but one that takes time to effect - when there would have been enough time to put a halt to it. To override that fear and fight that natural inbuilt ability for the body to survive - I imagine - must be one of the most hellish feeling to have to ride out whilst waiting for death to come.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

depression is caused by a chemical not being produced in the brain,
unless you have been there you can never fully understand it.

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

she is better off without them,
medication only covers up the cracks.

The way to correct that chemical imbalance is by taking medication - until the balance may be restored. (of course there are those who have to remain on medication for a very long time).

[Alf]

is suicide the easy way out?

i dont know, i haven't tried it

[billy123]

Has anybody here ever seen the documentary The bridge it is a very emotional and well made documentary made in 2006 where a film company filmed the golden gate bridge solidly for a year a place where nearly 1 person every week decides to end their lives and caught many of those moments on film and followed them up with interviews with the familys of the jumpers.

The subject is very sensitive and very emotive yet very well dealt with and goes into depth with the events that lead up to the sometimes quite distressing scenes that were captured during the years filming.

Some of the familys had even come to terms with the fact that loved ones were due to be lost within the next few weeks and had asked the jumpers just for a quick call to say goodbye before they went.

It is available to watch online but i wont post it here as it contains quite upsetting scenes so its just the trailer.

Youtube video

There are always two sides to a story and there is no right and wrong in a subject like this but some of the comments calling the act of suicide "a beautiful thing" or calling someone elses opinion "idiotic" or "moronic" or "ridiculous" is both out of line and outright silly.

The act of suicide that is deemed essential by the person that commits it can also be viewed as the easy way out by people who cared about that person none of them are wrong and certainly shouldnt be criticised for thinking that way.

Mental illness is a horrible saddening and still not a widely understood disease and it doesnt just effect the sufferer it effects their whole family and everybody they know.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

All manner of things are the catalyst to a person taking their own life.

From someone who was left having to deal with the aftermath: I have a double edged view on this. Is it selfish? Yes - for those that are left but I do not for one second imagine that the person committing the act can see further than trying to 'stop the pain/suffering/ending the problem' - so intense it is for them. They feel there is no other way out and aren't able to rationalise past that because they are emotionally not in the right place. From the point of those left behind - I think it is selfish - albeit not being done out of selfishness deliberately: that's the kicker, it's not a deliberate attempt at being selfish: but of not being able to see any other way out, and the mistaken belief that the family is better of without them - they believe THEY are the cause of the problem.

Many of us with a few decades under our belts, have gone through life being 'pushed to the limit / depressed / stressed /worried sick' to the point that we think we cannot take any more: not to the point of being suicidal: but to the point that we think we will 'crack' if having to put up with more 'pressure' - imagine that on a very grand scale - and that's what I imagine the person planning to take their own life has reached. They simply 'crack'.

The flip side is that I think it takes an unparalled amount of courage to go about ending your life to ensure that there are no mistakes and that it will result in death - I cannot even begin to imagine the fear inside as the person makes those final steps and stages - to not stop. Particularly when it is a suicide that is not 'quick' but one that takes time to effect - when there would have been enough time to put a halt to it. To override that fear and fight that natural inbuilt ability for the body to survive - I imagine - must be one of the most hellish feeling to have to ride out whilst waiting for death to come.

great post!
suicide comes in many forms and every person and their situation is different,
it can be triggered by all sorts problems and fear,s
at the point someone decides to kill them self they are detacheted from real life and and their heads are raceing and over loaded ,
i too have real experiences with this subject.

on the selfish part i will add this,
image being in resuse with someone you love they are lying life less on the table and the only sound you can hear is the heart monitor you watch them as they take each breath not knowing if it will be their last,
then as you sit there you think of your young daughter at home in bed.you think if she dies how am i going to face telling her in the morning that her mum is dead!.
at that point you think of the person on the table as sefish.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

All manner of things are the catalyst to a person taking their own life.

From someone who was left having to deal with the aftermath: I have a double edged view on this. Is it selfish? Yes - for those that are left but I do not for one second imagine that the person committing the act can see further than trying to 'stop the pain/suffering/ending the problem' - so intense it is for them. They feel there is no other way out and aren't able to rationalise past that because they are emotionally not in the right place. From the point of those left behind - I think it is selfish - albeit not being done out of selfishness deliberately: that's the kicker, it's not a deliberate attempt at being selfish: but of not being able to see any other way out, and the mistaken belief that the family is better of without them - they believe THEY are the cause of the problem.

Many of us with a few decades under our belts, have gone through life being 'pushed to the limit / depressed / stressed /worried sick' to the point that we think we cannot take any more: not to the point of being suicidal: but to the point that we think we will 'crack' if having to put up with more 'pressure' - imagine that on a very grand scale - and that's what I imagine the person planning to take their own life has reached. They simply 'crack'.

The flip side is that I think it takes an unparalled amount of courage to go about ending your life to ensure that there are no mistakes and that it will result in death - I cannot even begin to imagine the fear inside as the person makes those final steps and stages - to not stop. Particularly when it is a suicide that is not 'quick' but one that takes time to effect - when there would have been enough time to put a halt to it. To override that fear and fight that natural inbuilt ability for the body to survive - I imagine - must be one of the most hellish feeling to have to ride out whilst waiting for death to come.

Great post, eloquently put. This pretty much sums up my feelings on this matter. I think until you are at that point it is completely impossible to understand the thought process that people go through.

For those on here with personal experience of this awful subject my thoughts are with you.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by bobnot

Has anybody here ever seen the documentary The bridge it is a very emotional and well made documentary made in 2006 where a film company filmed the golden gate bridge solidly for a year a place where nearly 1 person every week decides to end their lives and caught many of those moments on film and followed them up with interviews with the familys of the jumpers.

The subject is very sensitive and very emotive yet very well dealt with and goes into depth with the events that lead up to the sometimes quite distressing scenes that were captured during the years filming.

Some of the familys had even come to terms with the fact that loved ones were due to be lost within the next few weeks and had asked the jumpers just for a quick call to say goodbye before they went.

It is available to watch online but i wont post it here as it contains quite upsetting scenes so its just the trailer.

Youtube video

There are always two sides to a story and there is no right and wrong in a subject like this but some of the comments calling the act of suicide "a beautiful thing" or calling someone elses opinion "idiotic" or "moronic" or "ridiculous" is both out of line and outright silly.

The act of suicide that is deemed essential by the person that commits it can also be viewed as the easy way out by people who cared about that person none of them are wrong and certainly shouldnt be criticised for thinking that way.

Mental illness is a horrible saddening and still not a widely understood disease and it doesnt just effect the sufferer it effects their whole family and everybody they know.

I've heard of this documentary and have been meaning to watch ot for a while, but keep putting it off.

There is something about suicide that fascinates me (morbid as it may sound) but the state of mind in somebody that chooses to end their life must be so hard to comprehend.

And just to throw this out there for those that say all suicide is selfish, what about those that jumped from the towers in 9/11. They knew they were going to die either way, it was either burn or jump. Was that a selfish act?

[Ammi]

[QUOTE=ukturtle;5543284]I've heard of this documentary and have been meaning to watch ot for a while, but keep putting it off.

There is something about suicide that fascinates me (morbid as it may sound) but the state of mind in somebody that chooses to end their life must be so hard to comprehend.

And just to throw this out there for those that say all suicide is selfish, what about those that jumped from the towers in 9/11. They knew they were going to die either way, it was either burn or jump. Was that a selfish act?[/QUOTE]

..maybe it was a choice of death...or possibly just an instinctive reaction..?

...it's not something that will ever get answered...only hope that we're never in that situation to be able to know, ourselves...

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Sam:)

Not really, if someone is thinking of killing themselves they obviously need some help... These pills are proven to help and thats what she needs.

this is one of those, you have to have been there and done that,
in my last post i said more people where killing them selfes while in the early stages of taking meds,
meds block the receptors in your brain,

[thesheriff443]

[QUOTE=Ammi;5543287]

Originally Posted by ukturtle

I've heard of this documentary and have been meaning to watch ot for a while, but keep putting it off.

There is something about suicide that fascinates me (morbid as it may sound) but the state of mind in somebody that chooses to end their life must be so hard to comprehend.

And just to throw this out there for those that say all suicide is selfish, what about those that jumped from the towers in 9/11. They knew they were going to die either way, it was either burn or jump. Was that a selfish act?[/QUOTE]

..maybe it was a choice of death...or possibly just an instinctive reaction..?

...it's not something that will ever get answered...only hope that we're never in that situation to be able to know, ourselves...

you are talking about two totaly different situations and trying to compare them,


i knew someone that had a brain tumor that was going to kill him at somepoint,
he had a row with his wife beacuse the tumor was changeing him as a person,
he went and hung him self!
every situation and reasons behind suicide are different.

[Glenn.]

The 9/11 issue is completely different. The jumpers knew they were going to die and chose to do it their way.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

this is one of those, you have to have been there and done that,
in my last post i said more people where killing them selfes while in the early stages of taking meds,
meds block the receptors in your brain,

that's a very good point. Many antid's for example: do state that feelings of suicide may be felt, or increased during the initial stages of being on the medication.



The point that UKT made about what goes through the mind of a person taking their own life being so very difficult to comprehend - I'd say that was pretty spot on. People who have never had a (serious) thought about suicide and have never seriously contemplated it: quite simply are dumfounded as to how bad a person must be, the depths of despair that are reached that makes them decide that is the only option available.

Understandably - it is incredibly puzzling to others never having experienced that depth of despair, ie; the need (or rather 'the want') of another human wanting to take their own life. I think that's the very hard part for people to come to terms with.

The 9/11 situation I think isn't quite the same. The poor people knew they were in reality, going to die: and chose what they possibly saw as a less painful, less horrific way rather than burn alive. Well, that's not a given obviously, It's what I'd imagine went through their heads - as well as some possible irrational thought that perhaps they could survive the jump?

[chuff me dizzy]

No ,I think its far from an easy way out,it takes guts

[the truth]

i dont think its a matter of easy or not easy, nothing is easy. it also varies totally on personal situations and of course health too

it is the quickest way out, whereas rebuilding a life take long term planning, luck, hard work, dedication, vision, strong will, time, imagination, usually good friends and family too

id advice anyone who feels that low to think again. find things that you enjoy, take comfort in the smaller things in life, the landscape, a gentle walk, a cup of tea, stroking your cat, I have to say I think alcohol is a total waste of time and energy too, as is smoking and drugs, utterly mindless preoccupations....i wish someone in power would just come out and say, smoking drinking and drugs is plain stupid....try and enjoy a sunday free of hangovers, sickness, debts, injuries from fighting, free from drug addiction, sometimes we go for the big things and dont take enough pleasure in the little things, try and remember your dreams as a child, not just i want to be an astronaut, but i want to ride a horse, walk up snowdon, swim in the sea, fly a kite, ride your bike, build a boat, write a play, learn to play music, read all those great books....stay sober, avoid conflict, save your energy and engage in positive creative pursuits

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

No ,I think its far from an easy way out,it takes guts

it takes more guts to face it head on and think of your children up stairs in their beds!

dying is easy its living thats hard!

[the truth]

to all those down or depressed or frustrated private message me, I the truth will always at least try to cheer you up. I believe most problems are practical and physical, if you can ease the practical and physical problems, then you can attack the mental, spiritual emotional, thats just my theory

but better that that, may I suggest you get a copy of desiderate on your wall and have a read every other day

Desiderata-Lust for life!

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

© Max Ehrmann 1927

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

to all those down or depressed or frustrated private message me, I the truth will always at least try to cheer you up. I believe most problems are practical and physical, if you can ease the practical and physical problems, then you can attack the mental, spiritual emotional, thats just my theory.............. etc. etc. etc.

I think if someone was so depressed they were contemplating suicide, reciting the Desiderata isn't going to help much. Neither is telling them to go for long walks and to take pleasure in the little things. If they could do that, they would.