[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He's a wily old git, take what he did tonight to casey for instance... that was horrid and she was gutted, he humiliated her and he and lee were laughing like drains about it with a total disregard for her feelings.
Casey really likes him too, so he wasn't retaliating there was he? just being a rude nasty old drunk.
The Paula Thompson interview with him in the Daily Echo proves he only thinks of women as T&A.

He was telling her straight that Lee isn't seriously interested in her. Yeah - she was gutted.. but people have already told her less bluntly to back off Lee and she didn't want to hear it.. It was time someone put her straight. If she takes it on board, it'll save her a lot of heartache later on, because we know exactly what will happen the moment Lee gets her alone outside of the BB house. Jim was not laughing like a drain. He was serious and hopefully she'll think about what he said and act accordingly.

[Kizzy]

You just contradicted yourself seraphim, in one comment you said he didn't send luisa to ask but said 'if you want to know ask linda' and another that he said 'ask about Frank Carsons dressing room'....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

He was telling her straight that Lee isn't seriously interested in her. Yeah - she was gutted.. but people have already told her less bluntly to back off Lee and she didn't want to hear it.. It was time someone put her straight. If she takes it on board, it'll save her a lot of heartache later on, because we know exactly what will happen the moment Lee gets her alone outside of the BB house. Jim was not laughing like a drain. He was serious and hopefully she'll think about what he said and act accordingly.

How does he know... what's he the all seeing eye? house oracle?

[Seraphim]

I haven't time to respond to your post. Sorry about that.. Just a couple of things before I sign off though:

Well if you're a woman yourself and you'd accept a few patronizing comments from a known sexist that's quite a shame isn't it.

I said that everyone makes digs at the opposite sex, including Linda. I make them myself - sometimes in jest, sometimes as generalisations, and I afford men the same kind of latitude as they afford me. That's simple courtesy.

With regard to the query about Luisa not missing having a man.. He did not say it sharply: he said it in a normal tone. And yes - he could equally well have asked a man the same question. It is neither offensive or patronising.

It's malicious and underhanded because brought it up to humiliate her deceased husband. How many times does that have to be stated before you get it?

He didn't bring it up to 'humiliate' her deceased husband. He brought it up in response to Luisa's question about why Linda was so angry with him. Note that Luisa herself was having to ask what the problem was - so Jim couldn't have been as obnoxious and sexist as you are making out, otherwise Luisa wouldn't have been asking what the problem was. As far as I'm concerned, if Jim had wanted to bring up Linda's husband, he would have done so far, far earlier. And if he had done so, Linda's reaction would have been the same. She was spoiling for a fight, and trying to goad Jim into one the whole time. You can state otherwise until you are blue in the face, but I am not going to "get it" just because you keep repeating it.

If they didn't find them patronizing or condescending, they wouldn't have reacted the way they did.

You haven't actually given me examples of any incidents when someone other than Linda reacted angrily or badly to anything Jim said.

And they actual value themselves as women so they're not going to let a known misogynist make subtle and sly digs at them.

I quite agree. That is why we saw Luisa and Dappy have one hell of a row over Dappy's double standards. She quite rightly didn't let him off with it. When Luisa nominated Jim, she didn't nominate him because of sexist comments and sly digs. She said he was a "grumpy bastard".

Okay - I'm off. Good night.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

With regard to the query about Luisa not missing having a man.. He did not say it sharply: he said it in a normal tone. And yes - he could equally well have asked a man the same question. It is neither offensive or patronising.

It was a very sharp and disproving tone, and my point is that he wouldn't ask that to a man because as usual, Jim has no problems with any of the men in there.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

He didn't bring it up to 'humiliate' her deceased husband. He brought it up in response to Luisa's question about why Linda was so angry with him. Note that Luisa herself was having to ask what the problem was - so Jim couldn't have been as obnoxious and sexist as you are making out, otherwise Luisa wouldn't have been asking what the problem was. As far as I'm concerned, if Jim had wanted to bring up Linda's husband, he would have done so far, far earlier. And if he had done so, Linda's reaction would have been the same. She was spoiling for a fight, and trying to goad Jim into one the whole time. You can state otherwise until you are blue in the face, but I am not going to "get it" just because you keep repeating it.

If he wanted to bring it up in response to Luisa's question he would've said because of what happened in Frank Carson's dressing room. Instead, he employed Luisa to ask Linda herself what happened in Frank Carson's dressing room, reminding Linda of a very dark time in her dark enough life and rubbing salt in all of her wounds.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

You haven't actually given me examples of any incidents when someone other than Linda reacted angrily or badly to anything Jim said.

I mean, I didn't think I needed to if you've been watching the show? If you're asking for a serious answer, there were many instances with Luisa and Jasmine (Jim telling Jasmine to **** off, Luisa's refusal to cook for him, everything with Jim's noise complaints at night, etc.)

Originally Posted by Seraphim

When Luisa nominated Jim, she didn't nominate him because of sexist comments and sly digs. She said he was a "grumpy bastard".

No, but she has said over and over again how Jim's sexist and chauvinistic and hates her becasue he's never met a woman like her who's strong and independent and stands up for what she believes in and doesn't take any ****. Besides, you said nominations don't have anything to do with it.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Okay - I'm off. Good night.

Good night!

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zee

I have one very simple response to your post: if Linda wanted consideration for her feelings she wouldn't have been bitching about Jim and pushing him to this point for the last two and a half weeks. She wouldn't want it brought up at all. If she didn't want the shame, humiliation, embarrassment or upset of her past brought up then she shouldn't have been goading Jim or holding a grudge against him for the last twenty years. Maybe she never made peace with what her husband was caught doing. Jim is an arsehole, a misogynist, a chauvinist, a wife beater and a recovering alcoholic but that does not for one minute excuse Linda Nolan's one woman hate campaign against him, that doesn't excuse her from picking on him at every possible minute nor does it excuse her from refusing to make peace with her past in favour of moaning about Jim and trying to fight with him all the time.

..I agree with this in that Linda has been a nightmare and really awful/miserable in general...but for me, even if I take away the content of what he said and it referring to her deceased husband, he didn't say it in 'the heat..' of the argument, he had walked away and then how he said it to Luisa seemed very controlled/calculated etc, which was very telling for me of his character...I know things can be interpreted in different ways and Jim being so controversial in general but Linda also being pretty unpleasant will mean it's hard to agree on these things and see them the same but for me, it doesn't mean because Linda has been a bitch, that it makes Jim a nicer person because I think they're both pretty crumby tbh ...

[Slevin]

i dont think he said that in the heat of the moment either. seemed calm enough when he said that and it wasnt even a big blow up til Linda went out to the garden.

[Amy Jade]

I agree with Troy, Kizzy and Ammi - great posts guys!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He's a wily old git, take what he did tonight to casey for instance... that was horrid and she was gutted, he humiliated her and he and lee were laughing like drains about it with a total disregard for her feelings.
Casey really likes him too, so he wasn't retaliating there was he? just being a rude nasty old drunk.
The Paula Thompson interview with him in the Daily Echo proves he only thinks of women as T&A.

It was a bit uncomfortable, however on the other hand like Luisa he has no "filter" and he was being honest!. In fairness if it snaps her out of it, it will be a good thing.

[jet]

Originally Posted by erinp5

Mummy Nolan must be so happy .
I am not a big fan of Jim's but in the house they are trying to push every button ,the more they push the more I will support him to stay .

Jim has brought it on himself by isolating himself deliberately from the group and disapproving of any fun. Last night after the task when they went over to the table with the food BB had provided he stood and looked at it and then said in disgust "I'm going to bed" before shuffling off. WTF?
Nobody cares by this stage and he didn't get the reaction he wanted so he got up again
In the diary room he said he didn't like partying or dancing - but the problem is he can't enjoy or tolerate other people having fun either.

The best moment of BB so far for me was BB playing the Nolans 'I'm in the mood for dancing' into the bedroom. Jim's face!!!
BB has a wicked sense of humour.
They obviously don't think Poor Jim is being bullied at all or they wouldn't have done that.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Zee

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

I'd say that sitting in a group bitching about a person who might be within hearing distance is a form of bullying. She frequently makes nasty comments in a loud voice so he can hear them, and other times, she creates a little huddle who talk in low voices and stop when he enters the room, making it abundantly clear who's being spoken about. Even when Liz tried to change the subect into more general terms and make the point that it is a game, and everyone must nominate someone, Linda immediately reverted to her favourite pastime of bitching about Jim.

Listening to her bitter voice announcing repeatedly "He wants to win.." like wanting to win was some dreadful personality defect which none of the others share was truly pathetic.

Great posts.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He's a wily old git, take what he did tonight to casey for instance... that was horrid and she was gutted, he humiliated her and he and lee were laughing like drains about it with a total disregard for her feelings.
Casey really likes him too, so he wasn't retaliating there was he? just being a rude nasty old drunk.
The Paula Thompson interview with him in the Daily Echo proves he only thinks of women as T&A.

What you mean when Casey asked a question and he told her the truth, the truth that everyone out here has been saying for ages now LOL

How dare he not lie to someone's face to make them feel better eh.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Zee

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

Oh the hyperbole! Those extravagant 'repeatedly's' and 'every's. What drama and histrionics!
He's taking a bit of teasing for being miserable and a killjoy and it seems to me he knows that full well and plays on it.

The thought of Jim Davidson being bullied is even more hilarious.
With his history! Give over!

[CaudleHalbard]

The idea of Jim being bullied is hilarious!

He is in there to change public perception of him as an awful man... so he is holding back.

[Slevin]

bullying gets thrown around more than Peyton Manning breaking records for TD passes.

[Ellen]

Dont blame him, who the hell wants to listen to a load of silly women who do not nothing but bitch.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ellen

Dont blame him, who the hell wants to listen to a load of silly women who do not nothing but bitch.

Totally agree Ellen.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He's ostracised himself, and made plenty of snide comments too. It's a lost cause trying to make folk aware of that... It's gotten to the point where if he punched her in the gob some would say she'd flung her face in front of his fist

I agree that when he's not in the mood for something, he doesn't make an effort for the sake of the group, so in that sense he is isolating himself, however looking at it another way, he's of an age where he doesn't feel it necessary to put on an act just to fit it, and he doesn't really see why he should, since he feels that no-one likes him anyway. And in any case - why should he put on an act to fit in with people who are putting on a different act in order to get votes on a dubious reality show? The concept is ridiculous to me. He obviously isn't a big party animal, and prefers to sit and chat quietly rather than join in with a bunch of people who're having a noisy carry-one and acting like kids. They're just acting up for the cameras, and it would wear thin PDQ.

I agree that he makes snide comments, but I prefer that than bitching behind people's backs, overt hatred and yelling foul language in other people's faces.

You are right about the fact that it's got to the point where a lot of his behaviour is easy to excuse because of the way he has been treated. It has polarised opinion: hence this thread.

I find Jim by far the most interesting character in the house. He intrigues me because he's smart, strategic and plays his cards close to his chest. Do I like him? I don't know yet, because I have been influenced by what I have read in the papers. I have, however, very much liked some facets of his personality and out of everyone in the house, I think he has earned more of my respect. Obviously if he socked someone in the face, he'd lose that respect, but until then, I'm keeping an open mind.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Ellen

Dont blame him, who the hell wants to listen to a load of silly women who do not nothing but bitch.

If Jim had made that comment, he'd have been accused of being sexist, chauvinistic and misogynistic. In my view, if you don't want that sort of comment made then you shouldn't invite it in your behaviour.

I agree with you. I don't want to listen to them either.

[Slevin]

[Rachael1904]

Originally Posted by Zee

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

The more I watch CBB, the more I am inclined to agree. Luisa is being a spiteful ringleader and Linda, well, what a sour hag. I really feel sorry for the guy...he can do no right.

[Z]

The people who are openly laughing at the idea of Jim possibly being bullied are not being objective about this because they hate Jim so much. For the umpteenth time: I think Jim is a horrible man. But whether or not someone is a victim of bullying doesn't hinge on whether or not you like them as a person. Adults can be bullied. Anyone can be bullied. It doesn't matter what your age, post code, gender or personality is, anyone can be bullied by anyone for any reason. There is a group of people who are making a point of excluding one individual, Jim. And if you don't think that proves anything, then why are they doing it to Liz too? Because they're acting in a mob manner. What Linda doesn't seem to realise is that if she's successful in getting Jim evicted, or if Liz finally goes, they're all going to have to start nominating each other anyway. She'd better hope that Sam goes in this next eviction or they're all going to be turning on her sooner or later.

[Slevin]

i dont hate anyone. that a lil too far for me lol.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zee

The people who are openly laughing at the idea of Jim possibly being bullied are not being objective about this because they hate Jim so much. For the umpteenth time: I think Jim is a horrible man. But whether or not someone is a victim of bullying doesn't hinge on whether or not you like them as a person. Adults can be bullied. Anyone can be bullied. It doesn't matter what your age, post code, gender or personality is, anyone can be bullied by anyone for any reason. There is a group of people who are making a point of excluding one individual, Jim. And if you don't think that proves anything, then why are they doing it to Liz too? Because they're acting in a mob manner. What Linda doesn't seem to realise is that if she's successful in getting Jim evicted, or if Liz finally goes, they're all going to have to start nominating each other anyway. She'd better hope that Sam goes in this next eviction or they're all going to be turning on her sooner or later.

..I don't think that's true though..I did read through this thread this morning and thought a lot about whether it was actually bullying because I would never condone that with anyone...the thing is that Jim equally excludes himself from the group and to an extent, I think Liz does...there are also clashes of personality and often in a group there can be one person who isn't liked as well by several people because of there own personality...but that isn't bullying...I guess that I go on how it's defined in the schools I have worked in and in the first instance, someone has to feel bullied...I presume that Jim doesn't if it hasn't been shown..?...

[Z]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I don't think that's true though..I did read through this thread this morning and thought a lot about whether it was actually bullying because I would never condone that with anyone...the thing is that Jim equally excludes himself from the group and to an extent, I think Liz does...there are also clashes of personality and often in a group there can be one person who isn't liked as well by several people because of there own personality...but that isn't bullying...I guess that I go on how it's defined in the schools I have worked in and in the first instance, someone has to feel bullied...I presume that Jim doesn't if it hasn't been shown..?...

So what would you call it when there's a big group of people all hating on an individual? Regardless of who a person is or what they've done, I do not like to see somebody be excluded and spend vast amounts of time on their own because a group of people have made it that way.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zee

So what would you call it when there's a big group of people all hating on an individual? Regardless of who a person is or what they've done, I do not like to see somebody be excluded and spend vast amounts of time on their own because a group of people have made it that way.

..but he's excluding himself, they're not people who he wants to spend time with, especially when they're being a bit loud so he removes himself from the group.. and I'm not criticising him for that in that it is his choice to do that but it's also something that everyone going into the house would expect..although it's always a mixed and varied house, some people by nature are more tolerant than others, Lionel was much more tolerant... but I don't think Jim is ..