[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by The Mockinator

Yes as the word is offensive whoever uses it, it's the same if a white person called another white person a "honkey" it's racist and shouldn't really be tolerated if other ethnicities can't use the words as well.

Similarly I'd say only white people can use that word however way they want to

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Similarly I'd say only white people can use that word however way they want to

Well I'm sorry but I disagree with that, unless it's equal for everyone to say it then I think it's wrong as in the western world we're all suppose to be equal to one another so having no go zone words for different races, genders, sexualities, or something as silly as hair is completely contradictory to what the western world is trying to be.

[GypsyGoth]

The word has evolved, it has more than just the racist meaning.

[Jack_]

No issue whatsoever, and actually I've noticed an increase in its usage recently, there seems to be a hell of a load of vines that include it or have that clip of Kevin Hart saying it. There also seems to be a load of vines centred around 'black girl problems' or 'white girl problems' so I guess you take issue with them, tbh I find them all funny though so

But no to answer the question I don't, I could probably count the number of times I've ever used it on one hand though (song lyrics, quoting etc), it's such an...uncomfortable word if its not contextualised properly

[InOne]

I'd never heard of the word 'Honkey' until I listened to Brain Damage by Eminem years ago and didn't even really get it then lol

[Vicky.]

I think I learnt honkey from this forum, and its the only place I have ever seen it used

Cracker we get a lot round here, though it appears to mean 'mad' rather than anything else.

[InOne]

I thought white bread was the most common one

[Mystic Mock]

Vanilla can be used in a racial undertone as well, and for black people Hot Chocolate.

[lostalex]

I've never actually heard black people use the N-word around me, i've only seen it on TV and in music.

[Nedusa]

The problem is if Black people use this word and it becomes OK , it becomes more known for it's new meaning then eventually non Black people will start using it for it's new meaning.

There's the problem.... it will always be connected to the offensive meaning it used to have and that offense could still be caused if the word is spoken by someone who is non Black to someone who is Black and not very tolerant of the word.

It will always carry the offensive meaning and for that reason the word needs to be laid to rest in perpetuity..............!!!

[Vicky.]

I dont care if anyone calls me anything really.

But call me a c *** and we will have problems, coz I hate that word

[Crimson Dynamo]

are black people a race? black is just a lazy way to describe anyone who isnt white

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

are black people a race? black is just a lazy way to describe anyone who isnt white

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

The term black people is an everyday English-language phrase, often used in socially-based systems of racial classification or of ethnicity to describe persons who are defined as belonging to a "black" ethnicity in their particular country, typically having a degree of Sub-Saharan African ancestry, or who are perceived to be dark-skinned relative to other "racial groups".

Different societies, such as Australia, Brazil, the United Kingdom, the United States and South Africa apply differing criteria regarding who is classified as "black", and these criteria have also varied over time. In some countries, social variables affect classification as much as skin-color, and the social criteria for "blackness" vary. For example, in North America the term black people is not necessarily an indicator of skin color or ethnic origin but is more of a socially-based racial classification related to being African American, with a family history related to institutionalized slavery. In South Africa, mixed-race people are not considered to be "black", and in other regions, such as Australia and Melanesia, the term "black" has been applied to, and used by, populations with a very different history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The term black people is an everyday English-language phrase, often used in socially-based systems of racial classification or of ethnicity to describe persons who are defined as belonging to a "black" ethnicity in their particular country, typically having a degree of Sub-Saharan African ancestry, or who are perceived to be dark-skinned relative to other "racial groups".

Different societies, such as Australia, Brazil, the United Kingdom, the United States and South Africa apply differing criteria regarding who is classified as "black", and these criteria have also varied over time. In some countries, social variables affect classification as much as skin-color, and the social criteria for "blackness" vary. For example, in North America the term black people is not necessarily an indicator of skin color or ethnic origin but is more of a socially-based racial classification related to being African American, with a family history related to institutionalized slavery. In South Africa, mixed-race people are not considered to be "black", and in other regions, such as Australia and Melanesia, the term "black" has been applied to, and used by, populations with a very different history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people

These criteria have also varied over time

You've answered your question in the article you quote.

[Nedusa]

No black or Negroid is one of the 3 main racial types

The others are Mongoloid and Caucasian

[Crimson Dynamo]

So Indians are Caucasian

so why is black the only race term we actually use?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So Indians are Caucasian

so why is black the only race term we actually use?

Yes Indians are Caucasian.......

But the 3 groups have interbred over the millenia to produce the huge variety of skin tones and features seen in the world today.


Technically we should use the other terms White and Yellow but as I said there is such a mixture even in the Black group there are many colours from jet black through brown to very light brown etc....

At the end of the day we are all people and I for one would like to see the end of these terms ie ..."that black guy"

Why do we have to know the guy is black ? Why ?

What diff does it make to anything.........??

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Yes Indians are Caucasian.......

But the 3 groups have interbred over the millenia to produce the huge variety of skin tones and features seen in the world today.


Technically we should use the other terms White and Yellow but as I said there is such a mixture even in the Black group there are many colours from jet black through brown to very light brown etc....

At the end of the day we are all people and I for one would like to see the end of these terms ie ..."that black guy"

Why do we have to know the guy is black ? Why ?

What diff does it make to anything.........??

I can see a time, in this lifetime, when the word black will not be accepted

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I can see a time, in this lifetime, when the word black will not be accepted

I agree.......why do we have to prefix somebody with a skin colour

It used to be the word coloured or coloured's then it became black


Surely only if it was necessary to describe the person in question would you need to say "black" why use it as a descriptive term in the first instance ?

some might agree that that in itself is racist !!!

[Redway]

Nope, not arsed. It makes sense that some blacks want to reclaim the word within context and I don't get why some whites deem it unfair like they're missing out on using it. Looking at the history of it why would any white person think it's okay for them to use it?

[Z]

Sometimes it's necessary to distinguish somebody's race, i.e. in a discussion like this, so no, it's not always 'racist' to refer to someone by their skin colour. It's descriptive, not racist. If you want to press on with that logic then we can't call people fat if they're fat, even if it's that one of the first things you'd think of when you were describing someone who was overweight.

I don't think anyone in this thread has said it's "unfair" that white people "can't" use the n word. The problem is that if a black person says it to another black person, obviously it's not (well, usually not) intended as a racial slur, it means something else. What exactly it means hasn't been officially defined by any dictionaries as far as I know, but it doesn't mean what it used to mean. If a white person said it to a black person, they might intend it in the same way but by virtue of their race, it will come across as a racial slur. That's why I'm of the opinion that the word should either be put to rest or there should be some kind of drive to change what the word means, to properly reclaim it. Having it floating about in this limbo stage where it means something else to some people but not to everyone means that the world at large cannot move on from the historical past of the word. It's up to black people where to go from here with the word. Stay as things are and racism will never go away, it'll always be around us. Try and progress and things can only get better. The civil rights movement didn't just stop when slavery was abolished.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Zee

Sometimes it's necessary to distinguish somebody's race, i.e. in a discussion like this, so no, it's not always 'racist' to refer to someone by their skin colour. It's descriptive, not racist. If you want to press on with that logic then we can't call people fat if they're fat, even if it's that one of the first things you'd think of when you were describing someone who was overweight.

I don't think anyone in this thread has said it's "unfair" that white people "can't" use the n word. The problem is that if a black person says it to another black person, obviously it's not (well, usually not) intended as a racial slur, it means something else. What exactly it means hasn't been officially defined by any dictionaries as far as I know, but it doesn't mean what it used to mean. If a white person said it to a black person, they might intend it in the same way but by virtue of their race, it will come across as a racial slur. That's why I'm of the opinion that the word should either be put to rest or there should be some kind of drive to change what the word means, to properly reclaim it. Having it floating about in this limbo stage where it means something else to some people but not to everyone means that the world at large cannot move on from the historical past of the word. It's up to black people where to go from here with the word. Stay as things are and racism will never go away, it'll always be around us. Try and progress and things can only get better. The civil rights movement didn't just stop when slavery was abolished.

I agree with the points you raise...........I would however suggest this particular debate about the use of a word belies deeper more entrenched views about people in general. inserting the word black into a conversation about something somebody said or did (assuming they are black) is in my view unnecessary in the context of that particular verbal exchange.

Why do we need to know the person is black at the beginning of the conversation ? what bearing does it have on the topic being discussed ie what that person said or did etc...

Seems to me we almost without question have to prefix the start of conversations about people with the phrase eg...

"I was talking to this black guy" or "I met this black woman" ....???

Why is it so important we know their skin colour before we know anything else about them ?

For me this is a form on innate racism where we then modify our thoughts about this or that person in line with our in built stereotypes of black people.

Why can't we just treat people as people and if it transpires they have slightly darker skin than their white skinned counterparts.. then so What !!!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I agree with the points you raise...........I would however suggest this particular debate about the use of a word belies deeper more entrenched views about people in general. inserting the word black into a conversation about something somebody said or did (assuming they are black) is in my view unnecessary in the context of that particular verbal exchange.

Why do we need to know the person is black at the beginning of the conversation ? what bearing does it have on the topic being discussed ie what that person said or did etc...

Seems to me we almost without question have to prefix the start of conversations about people with the phrase eg...

"I was talking to this black guy" or "I met this black woman" ....???

Why is it so important we know their skin colour before we know anything else about them ?

For me this is a form on innate racism where we then modify our thoughts about this or that person in line with our in built stereotypes of black people.

Why can't we just treat people as people and if it transpires they have slightly darker skin than their white skinned counterparts.. then so What !!!!

What we need is a great big melting pot..

[Z]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I agree with the points you raise...........I would however suggest this particular debate about the use of a word belies deeper more entrenched views about people in general. inserting the word black into a conversation about something somebody said or did (assuming they are black) is in my view unnecessary in the context of that particular verbal exchange.

Why do we need to know the person is black at the beginning of the conversation ? what bearing does it have on the topic being discussed ie what that person said or did etc...

Seems to me we almost without question have to prefix the start of conversations about people with the phrase eg...

"I was talking to this black guy" or "I met this black woman" ....???

Why is it so important we know their skin colour before we know anything else about them ?

For me this is a form on innate racism where we then modify our thoughts about this or that person in line with our in built stereotypes of black people.

Why can't we just treat people as people and if it transpires they have slightly darker skin than their white skinned counterparts.. then so What !!!!

I agree with you but I don't think this particular debate has anything to do with people using the word black to describe someone unnecessarily. We are specifically talking about divides between people based around this word and the divide is along racial lines, so it's necessary here. More generally speaking, however, I agree with you - referring to someone as black when it's not necessary is a bizarre thing to do and is perhaps an innate form of racism.