[Jason.]

Originally Posted by LukeB

Christopher, Jale,Ashleigh(but she gave it back so they're as bad as each other) and Danielle. That's 4 people. the whole cast contributed nothing but being dull/nasty and making the series messy. Except for Toya, should have been in a different series tbh.

She bullied Christopher and Jale, only.
Ashleigh was just as nasty about other housemates. The difference is, she wasn't aggressive, and bitched, instead of saying to their face.
I had no sympathy for Danielle, for the way she behaved towards her fellow housemates. She deserved every bit of nastiness, she got. Not only from Helen, but other housemates.

I like Toya.
But you seem to forget that she was friends with Helen and Pauline, in Week 1 and 2. And she was involved in the bullying of Christopher and Jale, just as much as Helen was. Especially Christopher. The way she treated Jale was disgusting too. She pretty much shouted at her, just because she had a different opinion to her, and kept using the "You're not listening to me" excuse.

So that's an unfair exception.
All this OTT love for Toya, and overlooking her nastiness in the first two weeks is slowly turning me against her, too.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by BB6

She bullied Christopher and Jale, only.
Ashleigh was just as nasty about other housemates. The difference is, she wasn't aggressive, and bitched, instead of saying to their face.
I had no sympathy for Danielle, for the way she behaved towards her fellow housemates. She deserved every bit of nastiness, she got. Not only from Helen, but other housemates.

I like Toya.
But you seem to forget that she was friends with Helen and Pauline, in Week 1 and 2. And she was involved in the bullying of Christopher and Jale, just as much as Helen was. Especially Christopher. The way she treated Jale was disgusting too. She pretty much shouted at her, just because she had a different opinion to her, and kept using the "You're not listening to me" excuse.

So that's an unfair exception.
All this OTT love for Toya, and overlooking her nastiness in the first two weeks is slowly turning me against her, too.

That's why I said they're bad as each other but both did things a different way. Helen is straight forward yes but they're things that shouldn't be said at all. Like that saying which applies to both of them, if you aint got nothing nice to say don't say anything at all. Helen wasn't all nice after those 2 weeks you know. None of them are innocent or nicer than the other. I only liked Ashleigh because she was against Helen really. Helen did go too far sometimes too

[MB.]

Originally Posted by BB6

All this OTT love for Toya, and overlooking her nastiness in the first two weeks is slowly turning me against her, too.

You could say the same about the 'OTT love' for Helen and people overlooking her nastiness in the first ten weeks.

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by MB.

You could say the same about the 'OTT love' for Helen and people overlooking her nastiness in the first ten weeks.

Ironic, considering your favorite's nastiness is overlooked, more than any other in the series.

How was Helen's nastiness overlooked?
She was vilified for it. She left to a bad reception. Branded the worst winner, fix claims, etc.

Go on DS, or even watch Bit on the Side, for BB15.
She was despised.

I like Helen, but she's never been popular.
Maybe she is on here, I don't know.

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by LukeB

That's why I said they're bad as each other but both did things a different way. Helen is straight forward yes but they're things that shouldn't be said at all. Like that saying which applies to both of them, if you aint got nothing nice to say don't say anything at all. Helen wasn't all nice after those 2 weeks you know. None of them are innocent or nicer than the other. I only liked Ashleigh because she was against Helen really. Helen did go too far sometimes too

Exactly!
They're all bad as each other, with the excpetion of Toya, who should've been in a different series.

That's what you said.

What did Toya do right, to not be in the same league as the rest of the cast.
As far as I'm aware, she was just as nasty as Helen, and Pauline. And even Ashleigh.

[LukeB]

bb15 was horrendous so I don't care for it

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by LukeB

bb15 was horrendous so I don't care for it

Luke, I like you.

But every time we have a debate about something of BB15, you always use the "BB15 was trash, let's stop talking about it" to get away from it.

[LukeB]

It's one way how to describe the series tbh, it's just vile and the worst series ever imo.
BB12 was so much better than this imo

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by LukeB

It's one way how to describe the series tbh, it's just vile and the worst series ever imo.
BB12 was so much better than this imo

I think BB15 is far superior to BB12.
That's saying a lot.

I'd rather have a series full of nastiness and meddling, than a series full of teenagers who's inspiration is to get a part on TOWIE, and have a showmance (shudder).

The word I associate with BB15, is nasty.
The word I associate with BB12, is trashy.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by BB6

I think BB15 is far superior to BB12.
That's saying a lot.

I'd rather have a series full of nastiness and meddling, than a series full of teenagers who's inspiration is to get a part on TOWIE, and have a showmance (shudder).

The word I associate with BB15, is nasty.
The word I associate with BB12, is trashy.

BB15 is both nasty and trashy tbh
BB12 was just plain but it had a better set of Housemates tbh.
I would re-watch BB12 and not BB15. I wouldn't even recomment B1B5 to anyone lol, I took it off my favourites too

[VanessaFeltz.]

Josie. She didnt deserve to win bb11 AND she didnt deserve to be on ubb. What a waste of space she was..

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LukeB

Christopher, Jale,Ashleigh(but she gave it back so they're as bad as each other) and Danielle. That's 4 people. the whole cast contributed nothing but being dull/nasty and making the series messy. Except for Toya, should have been in a different series tbh.

I thought that Ashleigh was your favourite?

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I thought that Ashleigh was your favourite?

she was because she was against helen but lbr she wasn't all nice was she?Helen was worst tbh. The whole of BB15 is just ew.

[VanessaFeltz.]

and dont forget guys bb15 sucked because we sent toya/matthew home over ash, marlon pressed the button and newbies sent danielle home.

[Calderyon]

BB15 **** mainly because of the whole Power Housemate theme.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by BB6

I'm dying at half your list of Big Brother "legends".

I'm just saying that people say all she did was bully others.
That's not true. She was involved in the bullying for the first two weeks, as were many other housemates, but she gets the blame for it.
Pauline was far worse, IMO.

After that, she was just argumentative, and nasty. But that's not bullying.

At least I can admit the faults in my favourites, you seem to shout down anybody who has a different opinion to you.

Whether you want to say Helen bullied or just argued and was nasty is semantics really. At the end of the day she was still awful to pretty much everyone who wasn't in her clique of douche bros and it was not only unpleasant to watch but also helped ruin the series

Originally Posted by MelihV

and dont forget guys bb15 sucked because we sent toya/matthew home over ash, marlon pressed the button and newbies sent danielle home.

Toya and Matthew sucked so I don't get your point, and I don't really know what Marlon pushing the button had to do with BB15 being bad. There were plenty of things wrong with it.

Originally Posted by Calderyon

BB15 **** mainly because of the whole Power Housemate theme.

Production, the cast, Helen's pass to the final, etc. There were so many things wrong with BB15.

[Headie]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

Toya and Matthew sucked so I don't get your point

omg Troy stop trolling!

[Macie Lightfoot]

sorry for bullying you hun xx

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LukeB

she was because she was against helen but lbr she wasn't all nice was she?Helen was worst tbh. The whole of BB15 is just ew.

I think BB manipulated us all good and proper when it came to Ashleigh tbh, it didn't take much to manipulate me when it came to her.

[Jason.]

BB15 was **** because:

1) Housemates had been on the cusp of fame.
2) No mixture of different personalities, or ages.
2) The Power Trip theme, was good on paper, but realistically it was dire.
3) Carrying the theme throughout the series, meant twists and turns every other day
4) Twists. The thing is they were always nominations and eviction based, which not only messed up the format, but made the series boring and tiresome by Week 7, onwards.
5) Rubbish tasks. BB14 had great tasks.
6) Lack of normal nominations.
7) Bad editing. Too much of the highlights focused on Ashleigh Vs Helen. By Week 7, it became a chore to watch. Like CBB15, when the show revolves around two housemates (Hopkins and Perez , or Helen and Ashleigh) it kills the show.
8) Too much meddling.
9) Lack of original twists.
10) Forced conflict.

I don't think the nastiness killed the series.
It's how the nastiness was caused, which was by twists to create drama, instead of the housemates creating the drama themselves.

BB13 was a nasty series, but it was a good series. As there were less twists, and the housemates actually created the drama themselves as opposed to the producers forcing the conflict.
Also, BB13 was more divided, than based around two rival housemates, like BB15 was.
Same can be said for BB6.