[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

A million people? One in sixty? I doubt it.

Considering you can visit a food bank 3 times even if these visits are based on that it's anything upwards of 333,333 if that is more acceptable.

[smudgie]

Ok, so if attitudes have really changed for the worse, how come so many food banks can spring up?
These food banks are made up of charitable donations from schools, churches, businesses and the public, therefore showing we do care in general.

[Livia]

I don't know what you mean about net curtains...

I doubt very much that one in sixty of the population cannot feed themselves. I wonder how many of those people smoke, drink, own a smartphone etc. etc...? In the 1940s people if you needed money you'd get a visit from the Relief Office and they'd point out which of your meagre possessions you should sell before they gave you a penny. Can't really compare that with today.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Ok, so if attitudes have really changed for the worse, how come so many food banks can spring up?
These food banks are made up of charitable donations from schools, churches, businesses and the public, therefore showing we do care in general.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't know what you mean about net curtains...

I doubt very much that one in sixty of the population cannot feed themselves. I wonder how many of those people smoke, drink, own a smartphone etc. etc...? In the 1940s people if you needed money you'd get a visit from the Relief Office and they'd point out which of your meagre possessions you should sell before they gave you a penny. Can't really compare that with today.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Ok, so if attitudes have really changed for the worse, how come so many food banks can spring up?
These food banks are made up of charitable donations from schools, churches, businesses and the public, therefore showing we do care in general.

Churches and the public can only do so much that are squeezed too, and the proportion of those who require help is becoming too great.
The change is that many are happy to see governmental support removed via 'spare room subsidies', sanctions to benefits, implement payment of a percentage of council tax from benefits and housing benefit caps but what does that in turn do? Puts huge amounts of pressure on communities to aid the poor in some areas the pressure then affects public services and the poor get the blame.
High streets are full of shiny betting shops and pawnbrokers not reasonably priced butchers and grocers as they were, now we have the cartelesque supermarkets selling high priced low quality food.
The energy companies keep people on low incomes on meters set at one of the highest rates.
What should everyone do? Ask why they're doing it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't know what you mean about net curtains...

I doubt very much that one in sixty of the population cannot feed themselves. I wonder how many of those people smoke, drink, own a smartphone etc. etc...? In the 1940s people if you needed money you'd get a visit from the Relief Office and they'd point out which of your meagre possessions you should sell before they gave you a penny. Can't really compare that with today.

It was just an analogy, don't worry about it I'll get sidetracked if I try to explain.

I've covered your 1 in 60 query, in order to sell something you first have to own it, if someone has a smartphone and a big telly on JSA they are most likely on HP,the difference then was it was impossible to get an unsecured loan for goods. Poverty and addiction has been an issue for years, it was prior to the 40s and it continues to be.

[Livia]

Yes in order to sell something you do first have to own it. But I'm not talking about luxuries like big tellies and smartphones, in the 1940s you'd be required to sell your furniture, such as it was, a chair, some saucepans...

I've said all I have to say about this; it's impossible to compare need today to need in the forties.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yes in order to sell something you do first have to own it. But I'm not talking about luxuries like big tellies and smartphones, in the 1940s you'd be required to sell your furniture, such as it was, a chair, some saucepans...

I've said all I have to say about this; it's impossible to compare need today to need in the forties.

Seeing as the thread is nothing to do with comparing that then that's fine. it's about changes in attitudes to the poor.

'One resident is shown telling a journalist on the estate: “You talk about Benefits Street exploiting us, it’s the press that’s exploiting us. The Sun are exploiting the people who live here.

“We stick together on this estate. What gives you the right to come down this road and take photos? We are not scum we are good people.”

Producer Kieran Smith from Love Productions said: “It’s not a deliberate attack on the press but you know what, having made series one it’s quite hard to sit there and see the misreporting, the lack of factual argument that people put into the reporting of Benefits Street'

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...ess-series-two

[Kazanne]

I just think 'some' people are greedy and expect too much sometimes ,even though times are hard , you can get a certain amount of pride from sorting things out yourself,I often see people standing outside job centers smoking and chatting on smartphones ,how can they afford that? I am all for helping people but not helping them to have a good lifestyle from being lazy.I have not seen anyone use a foodbank here,infact not sure we even have one.We all eat far beyond what we need to survive anyway.less food ,healthier people

[Kizzy]

Healthier kids?

'Nearly 100,000 of the poorest children in the UK went hungry last year because their parents’ benefits were stopped or cut, according to a report by a coalition of churches.

A total of more than a million benefit sanctions were imposed last year - sometimes simply because people were late for an appointment at the Jobcentre - although more than 120,000 of those decisions were overturned on appeal.

Researchers found that more than 100 people with severe mental health problems a day were sanctioned. '

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-10079056.html

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Considering you can visit a food bank 3 times even if these visits are based on that it's anything upwards of 333,333 if that is more acceptable.

The wording is usage of over 1,000,000, not just one million actually.It exceeded 1,000,000 in figures out near 2 weeks ago.
People do use them sometimes once, twice and up to 3 times.

Foodbanks can at present only be a temporary measure and it is all donated voluntarily from the kindness of other shoppers in the main.

The point is that anyone needing foodbanks at all in the 21st century in the UK should make the UK powers that be feel really ashamed, it is beyond defending that anyone has to be so down, to have to rely on them in any shape or form.

Volunteers at them are worn out with the ever growing numbers of different people and you have to realise,someone using them up to 3 times, means after them it is near always new people using them afterwards.

Also, even at 1,000,000 usage, if it was assumed and we don't know,that this was in effect something like 334,000 actual people using them, that is still an almightly disgrace and should be a universal massive condemnation of this govt; that has let this happen over the last 5 years alone too.

The cry that Labour had foodbanks too gets made, well fair enough but then that would also need counter balancing, if we all accepted it is 334,000 people with 1,000,000 usage now.
Then as to Labour,who by 2010 had something like only 45,000 usage, that would mean only 15,000 people using them by the same token.

It does not alter in any way, the justified criticism as to this heartless lot as to a massive rise in foodbanks usage over just 5 years.
Labour's figure of 45,000 was at the end of 13 years of govt;,not just 5 years,where this present gov't has seen the figures soar to over 1,000,000.

Or assuming it is people rather than usage, Labour's figure of 15,000 after 13 years of govt; as opposed to the Conservative led govt;of 5 years taking it from 15,000 to 334,000,well over a quarter of a million at least, in that very short time.
Not a statistic I would like a party I supported to have as a fact.

Foodbanks shouldn't exist in the UK at all and if the Conservative party win this election,with their unspecified extra welfare cuts to come of around 10 billion, they have only told us 2 billion so far.
Then foodbanks and I feel sure those in poverty will see numbers soaring like never before,likely eclipsing the numbers rise of just the last 5 years.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I just think 'some' people are greedy and expect too much sometimes ,even though times are hard , you can get a certain amount of pride from sorting things out yourself,I often see people standing outside job centers smoking and chatting on smartphones ,how can they afford that? I am all for helping people but not helping them to have a good lifestyle from being lazy.I have not seen anyone use a foodbank here,infact not sure we even have one.We all eat far beyond what we need to survive anyway.less food ,healthier people

So these people using foodbanks and foodbanks don't exist because you haven't seen them.
I help out at one Kazanne,I for sure know they exist alright and I have near cried at the situations some of those desperate for their help are in.

People also have to be referred to them by social services, a Church or a welfare organisation or charity.
They cannot and do not just walk in and demand stuff.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

So these people using foodbanks and foodbanks don't exist because you haven't seen them.
I help out at one Kazanne,I for sure know they exist alright and I have near cried at the situations some of those desperate for their help are in.

People also have to be referred to them by social services, a Church or a welfare organisation or charity.
They cannot and do not just walk in and demand stuff.

I am not saying they don't exist Joey,I just haven't seen any myself,people are making it sound as though there is one on every street corner Joey,Yes by all means help the needy,but just make sure they are needy first Joey,humans can be devious and will play on people if they can, I am not heartless,i always give to beggars on the street and you know and I know a lot of them are doing ok,but I still give because I also know I will give to one that really needs it,I'm maybe not getting my point across well,I would help anyone ,but also feel people rely too much on others.There is a lot of help out there for people,what more can we do?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I am not saying they don't exist Joey,I just haven't seen any myself,people are making it sound as though there is one on every street corner Joey,Yes by all means help the needy,but just make sure they are needy first Joey,humans can be devious and will play on people if they can, I am not heartless,i always give to beggars on the street and you know and I know a lot of them are doing ok,but I still give because I also know I will give to one that really needs it,I'm maybe not getting my point across well,I would help anyone ,but also feel people rely too much on others.There is a lot of help out there for people,what more can we do?

Calm down you little tinker, if you could hear how I say what I say you would hear it all done softly.
I know you are one of the most decent people on here and even in your 'harder' line at times, you still make valid points

In fact on this thread, I have quoted things you have raised as very valid quite a lot.

Some people desperately need to really on others however,my way is not to turn my back on those people.
You said yourself,some people are bad with money,there are however less and less organisations with the 'time needed' now to ensure they get sorted out.

Even if the usage of foodbanks is only around 334,000,that is no doubt in relation to the population a small number,however it is in my view a disgrace that anyone needs to use them in the UK,and as I said, they cannot just walk in to one, they have to be referred after they have been assessed as being in urgent/dire need.

I think the 45,000 usage left in 2010 by Labour was totally unacceptable too, they didn't get my vote.
A rise however from 45,000 to over 1,000,000 as to usage in just 5 years,well sorry, I would condemn massively anyone in power who presided over that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why when there are a million people relying on foodbanks these agencies aren't acting as a safety net?

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Considering you can visit a food bank 3 times even if these visits are based on that it's anything upwards of 333,333 if that is more acceptable.

Wow. that's a drop isn't it. From 1 person in 60 using a food bank to 1 person in 180.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Calm down you little tinker, if you could hear how I say what I say you would hear it all done softly.
I know you are one of the most decent people on here and even in your 'harder' line at times, you still make valid points

In fact on this thread, I have quoted things you have raised as very valid quite a lot.

Some people desperately need to really on others however,my way is not to turn my back on those people.
You said yourself,some people are bad with money,there are however less and less organisations with the 'time needed' now to ensure they get sorted out.

Even if the usage of foodbanks is only around 334,000,that is no doubt in relation to the population a small number,however it is in my view a disgrace that anyone needs to use them in the UK,and as I said, they cannot just walk in to one, they have to be referred after they have been assessed as being in urgent/dire need.

I think the 45,000 usage left in 2010 by Labour was totally unacceptable too, they didn't get my vote.
A rise however from 45,000 to over 1,000,000 as to usage in just 5 years,well sorry, I would condemn massively anyone in power who presided over that.

Joey I haven't been called a little tinker for years,I quite like it,I hate not agreeing with you as you know how much regard I have for you ,the,same with Kizbot, I am just not so read up on it as some,and I suppose I was brought up with the notion,you get out of life what you put in and you get nothing in this life for nothing.I am going to read and study it more as,as I get older politics gets more interesting

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Joey I haven't been called a little tinker for years,I quite like it,I hate not agreeing with you as you know how much regard I have for you ,the,same with Kizbot, I am just not so read up on it as some,and I suppose I was brought up with the notion,you get out of life what you put in and you get nothing in this life for nothing.I am going to read and study it more as,as I get older politics gets more interesting

I somehow thought that would make you smile,

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Wow. that's a drop isn't it. From 1 person in 60 using a food bank to 1 person in 180.

That isn't the figure though Livia, some people only use it once or twice.
For me in any event, even a quarter of a million plus by a good margin is way too many and is a disgrace.
Nothing at all for the UK to be proud of.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Wow. that's a drop isn't it. From 1 person in 60 using a food bank to 1 person in 180.

nope, 333,333 is the figure if 1 person used the foodbank 3 times based on 1 million visits. I really hope we don't have to visit this issue again as it's in danger of derailing the thread.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Ok, so if attitudes have really changed for the worse, how come so many food banks can spring up?
These food banks are made up of charitable donations from schools, churches, businesses and the public, therefore showing we do care in general.

As much as I hate people, I do believe that we are more generous than ever before. For example, a lady in my town started to go through the process of a homeless cafe where homeless people could eat for free and now she's raised over Ł10,000 for it and has the rent sorted for the place for over a year now. She's had all kinds of people donate things like clothes, cutlery, kitchen equipment and so much more.

Her cafe opens tomorrow and I'm so happy for her. It will be nice for the homeless to have a nice and safe place to eat.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Joey I haven't been called a little tinker for years,I quite like it,I hate not agreeing with you as you know how much regard I have for you ,the,same with Kizbot, I am just not so read up on it as some,and I suppose I was brought up with the notion,you get out of life what you put in and you get nothing in this life for nothing.I am going to read and study it more as,as I get older politics gets more interesting

Are you suggesting Joey an I were not brought up with said notion?
Yes I read up on it, the information is there for anyone who wishes to do so.
Joey is young and he has always been into politics, we may be a little more socially aware.

[bots]

The fact that we need food banks is an awful situation, no one can argue against that. However, before saying the number have increased with the current government, one needs to examine the reason why. Is it because people are in more need? Is it because the criteria for being eligible has been relaxed? Is it because the current government decided that sufficient banks should be available such that people who need to use one have easy access to it.

I've said this before and I will say it again. Statistics can be manipulated to prove anything. We have a huge deficit, with both parties determined to wipe it out in the next 5 years. I hope people honestly don't expect the number of needy people to reduce in that period, because its just not going to happen, things will get worse, much worse, with either a tory or labour government

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The fact that we need food banks is an awful situation, no one can argue against that. However, before saying the number have increased with the current government, one needs to examine the reason why. Is it because people are in more need? Is it because the criteria for being eligible has been relaxed? Is it because the current government decided that sufficient banks should be available such that people who need to use one have easy access to it.

I've said this before and I will say it again. Statistics can be manipulated to prove anything. We have a huge deficit, with both parties determined to wipe it out in the next 5 years. I hope people honestly don't expect the number of needy people to reduce in that period, because its just not going to happen, things will get worse, much worse, with either a tory or labour government

I agree, there are various factors like increased awareness, more referrals, a more concerted effort on the part of some charities etc. that have boosted the number of food banks massively, it would always have snowballed so it can be a bit of a fallacy to argue, say, that because ten times more people are using food banks than 5 years ago that ten times more people are in poverty. Germany has many more food banks than the UK has. That is not necessarily a bad thing, Smudgie's point is a very fair one that their growth also demonstrates the strength of charity in this country.

[Kazanne]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainme...Ha?ocid=LENDHP

America have them too !! maybe the tons of food wasted they mention could be used in some way http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainme...Ha?ocid=LENDHP