[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Livia

You are right, Jaxie. I'm a qualified and experienced election agent and I've worked with the Electoral Commission and my local electoral services on many elections, European, Parliamentary, County, District and Town. When people apply for a postal vote they have to provide a copy of their signature, as you know. If they cannot and someone signs on their behalf, a reason has to be given and this is usually followed up. People's signatures are checked against the postal vote request and can also be checked against other documentation held by the council. Also, people's requests are often checked against what's called the Marked Register. This is a copy of the electoral roll which is marked as to which voter cast a vote in the last election (obviously it only says whether they voted, not who they voted for). You can see whether this person has voted in the past. If they haven't, then enquiries are made.

There is no fool proof system because fools are so ingenious. But we have in this country one of the best, one of the fairest systems in the world. Of course there are people who think everything's a conspiracy... However, staff in council's electoral services department are really thorough and committed as is the Electoral Commission. I agree with you about the future of postal votes.

Thanks for clarifying all that Livia. I have a family member who works in a job where they are often out of the country and have used postal voting and I was quite impressed with how it's done with the envelope in an envelope and signature etc as they showed me, though not their vote of course!

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well if proper checks are made that would be found out, people registering to vote will have other details, they may be council tenants or the homeowners, they will be registered with energy suppliers.
A simple check can identify that.

However you are missing the point,with a vote at a polling station, you go in not necessarily with your card but your name and address at least.
You cannot have anyone with you in the polling booth, you fill the ballot paper yourself and put it in a sealed box.
You cannot vote again and that vote is done.

A postal vote is done in the home,the point Kizzy and I were making and arista I think too, is that no one is overseeing how that votes is arrived at.
Some people, not you yourself, think it conspiracy theories, just to try to belittle others but answer the question please.
The vote at the polling station for a named person is watched over by those in attendance at that polling station.

'Who' watches over a postal vote being done for anyone in their home,who sees them, or has to sign they have seen that person, vote and sign and seal that ballot themselves.
To some who should know better, I say in a massive difference to the way the polling station vote is done ,no one sees that postal vote done or how it is done at all.
That is a simple fact.

You say that people would be found out if not registering to vote themselves as checks would be made and their would be other details like they are council tenants or homeowners, registered for energy and a simple check could verify and yet you fail to see the same can be said for postal voting.

With a polling station you flash a card at people, go and vote you could be anyone really except the card comes in the post to you address. A postal vote also comes to your address, your registered address, the one easily checked as being yours and is returned with a verified signature. I fail to see why you consider this less secure.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think I've covered this topic adequately. If you think the Royal Mail is in league with a political party you should contact the police.

I don't think it has, I'm wondering if you read what I put at all, the post wasn't that long, as nowhere has it been addressed :/

'Royal mail' is no longer no longer the organisation it once was therefore I feel as a private venture it is unsuitable for this task as it no longer has the level of impartiality required being owed by shareholders as opposed to the public.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You say that people would be found out if not registering to vote themselves as checks would be made and their would be other details like they are council tenants or homeowners, registered for energy and a simple check could verify and yet you fail to see the same can be said for postal voting.

With a poking station you flash a card at people, go and vote you could be anyone really except the card comes in the post to you address. A postal vote also comes to your address, your registered address, the one easily checked as being yours and is returned with a verified signature. I fail to see why you consider this less secure.

I said 'if checks were made not 'were'.

However I am not arguing here, I am merely stating that in my view, and I say it again, as my point and a couple of other peoples too maybe.

In my opinion, someone going to a polling station can only get their vote done once, with no one else with them in the booth, or anyone interfering as to their voting as it is watched at the time by the electoral attendants on duty in the polling station.

In a postal vote,a postal vote granted on paper on signature only and not with photo id, that postal vote then done in the home, is not watched as it is in a polling station.

No official is there to observe the voter marking the ballot paper, signing the declaration and sealing the envelope.
Which in my view,'could' leave postal voting open to possible influence or interference from another or indeed others.
Something which could not happen inside an actual polling station.
No one voting in a polling station has their vote seen by anyone else.
A postal vote done in the home can be.

That has been my point all through and it is why I think, rightly or wrongly, postal votes and indeed any voting taken out of a polling station and private booth there with sealed boxes for the completed vote,needs greater scrutiny and security before being granted and issued.
With at least photo id in addition to signature for a postal vote.

I even would not object to having to show id at a polling station either to ensure I am who I am saying I was.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They put my wife's new iPhone in the recycle bin. At the house three doors down.

I've had them put parcels on the recycle bin before though not someone elses unless that's where the non arrivals went. you scare me sometimes TS I am agreeing with you so often lately I'm starting to question myself when I don't!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't think it has, I'm wondering if you read what I put at all, the post wasn't that long, as nowhere has it been addressed :/

'Royal mail' is no longer no longer the organisation it once was therefore I feel as a private venture it is unsuitable for this task as it no longer has the level of impartiality required being owed by shareholders as opposed to the public.

Your post doesn't make much sense, but what I'm getting from it is, who oversees a postal vote once it's in the mail system? It is a criminal offence to tamper with the mail in this country and carries stiff penalties just as tampering with a ballot box does. And people don't have to post them, they can ask someone to take them to a polling station and hand them to the polling officer if they're worried that the Royal Mail isn't secure.

If you want to know anything else I might have to start the clock.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Tbf you are an easy target and Kizzy is still on her kiddy gloves so she needs the practice. She's tried Kirk... but let's be honest, she's just not there yet. She needs the softer, subtler, feminine touch of a good wind-up-Livia session.. Kirk uses his loud voice and it gives her a spook

[Livia]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I've had them put parcels on the recycle bin before though not someone elses unless that's where the non arrivals went. you scare me sometimes TS I am agreeing with you so often lately I'm starting to question myself when I don't!

Don't let him lull you into a false sense of security, Jax... that's how he draws people in to his cult.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Don't let him lull you into a false sense of security, Jax... that's how he draws people in to his cult.

Feel like this is a covert admission that you are in my cult

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You say that people would be found out if not registering to vote themselves as checks would be made and their would be other details like they are council tenants or homeowners, registered for energy and a simple check could verify and yet you fail to see the same can be said for postal voting.

With a poking station you flash a card at people, go and vote you could be anyone really except the card comes in the post to you address. A postal vote also comes to your address, your registered address, the one easily checked as being yours and is returned with a verified signature. I fail to see why you consider this less secure.

Do you mean a polling station?

You do not 'flash a card' you are given a polling number this number is on he card and is cross referenced with the registered number they have in the register for your address. You are there in person at your local polling station.

It is less secure as once posted tens of 1000s of votes vanish... it happened regularly last year across the country, I'm surprised nobody chooses to remember this.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10213657.html

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...eports-9195178

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/exp...ot-papers.html

And again during the referendum...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7103066.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7125711.html

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't think it has, I'm wondering if you read what I put at all, the post wasn't that long, as nowhere has it been addressed :/

'Royal mail' is no longer no longer the organisation it once was therefore I feel as a private venture it is unsuitable for this task as it no longer has the level of impartiality required being owed by shareholders as opposed to the public.

I have had 4 Birthday cards posted this year that never arrived,3 I sent to others and one that someone sent to me.

I still think the mail is as fairly secure but now there is also rarely a regular postman any more,I have 3 different ones at all times of the day every week.
I agree the post is worse now than I can recall it being, through my life.

Maybe when Theresa May and this govt. bring us out of the EU, they could look at our postal service, this is in fact possibly a good chance and time to look at everything and maybe go back to the drawing board on a lot of things across the UK.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Feel like this is a covert admission that you are in my cult

TS, you know you don't allows Jews...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Your post doesn't make much sense, but what I'm getting from it is, who oversees a postal vote once it's in the mail system? It is a criminal offence to tamper with the mail in this country and carries stiff penalties just as tampering with a ballot box does. And people don't have to post them, they can ask someone to take them to a polling station and hand them to the polling officer if they're worried that the Royal Mail isn't secure.

If you want to know anything else I might have to start the clock.

It makes perfect sense to anyone not attempting to fudge the issue.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
Tbf you are an easy target and Kizzy is still on her kiddy gloves so she needs the practice. She's tried Kirk... but let's be honest, she's just not there yet. She needs the softer, subtler, feminine touch of a good wind-up-Livia session.. Kirk uses his loud voice and it gives her a spook .


What are you blabbering on about TS?...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Do you mean a polling station?

You do not 'flash a card' you are given a polling number this number is on he card and is cross referenced with the registered number they have in the register for your address. You are there in person at your local polling station.

It is less secure as once posted tens of 1000s of votes vanish... it happened regularly last year across the country, I'm surprised nobody chooses to remember this.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10213657.html

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...eports-9195178

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/exp...ot-papers.html

And again during the referendum...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7103066.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7125711.html

These are problems with the postal service not the Electoral Commission. Don't confuse the two, they are not the same. Someone should take it up with the union...

[Vicky.]

I have NEVER taken my polling card to vote at a polling station...also they have the names and address lists in plain view at ours so technically I could 'be' anyone...I think postal votes are more secure tbh, but there is the issue of the stupid amount of mail (not just votes, mail in general) that go 'missing' with royal mail :S

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It makes perfect sense to anyone not attempting to fudge the issue.

What on earth would I have to gain by fudging the issue? I gave my professional opinion. If you don't like the answer doesn't mean what I've stated is untrue. I'm telling you what the law is and the function of electoral services and the Election Commission. But apparently, you know better. Which is funny... because seriously... you don't.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I said 'if checks were made not 'were'.

However I am not arguing here, I am merely stating that in my view, and I say it again, as my point and a couple of other peoples too maybe.

In my opinion, someone going to a polling station can only get their vote done once, with no one else with them in the booth, or anyone interfering as to their voting as it is watched at the time by the electoral attendants on duty in the polling station.

In a postal vote,a postal vote granted on paper on signature only and not with photo id, that postal vote then done in the home, is not watched as it is in a polling station.

No official is there to observe the voter marking the ballot paper, signing the declaration and sealing the envelope.
Which in my view,'could' leave postal voting open to possible influence or interference from another or indeed others.
Something which could not happen inside an actual polling station.
No one voting in a polling station has their vote seen by anyone else.
A postal vote done in the home can be.

That has been my point all through and it is why I think, rightly or wrongly, postal votes and indeed any voting taken out of a polling station and private booth there with sealed boxes for the completed vote,needs greater scrutiny and security before being granted and issued.
With at least photo id in addition to signature for a postal vote.

I even would not object to having to show id at a polling station either to ensure I am who I am saying I was.

Now I know people watch you at the polling station because it's a fact from Joey, I'll never be able to go there again without hearing the pink panther theme tune in my head.

Also a bit worried about all these carers and where they may be stuffing disabled people's votes instead of posting them.

Seriously though people at polling stations don't know you from Adam, polling cards don't have a photo ID How can they verify its you and why would they 'watch' you? It's no safer than a postal vote in reality and postal voting would get more people to vote.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

These are problems with the postal service not the Electoral Commission. Don't confuse the two, they are not the same. Someone should take it up with the union...

Then why entrust postal votes to the postal service if they are not competent?

I'm not confusing the two, I have clearly stated that face to face balloting under the gaze of the electoral commission representatives is my preferred method of voting.

Someone should take what up with which union... and why?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then why entrust postal votes to the postal service if they are not competent?

I'm not confusing the two, I have clearly stated that face to face balloting under the gaze of the electoral commission representatives is my preferred method of voting.

Someone should take what up with which union... and why?

Enough already.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

What on earth would I have to gain by fudging the issue? I gave my professional opinion. If you don't like the answer doesn't mean what I've stated is untrue. I'm telling you what the law is and the function of electoral services and the Election Commission. But apparently, you know better. Which is funny... because seriously... you don't.

Being a registered voter I have enough information and intelligence to understand the differing methods of voting and their uses, but if it makes you feel better to act superior in all areas then I won't attempt to take that away from you.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Do you mean a polling station?

You do not 'flash a card' you are given a polling number this number is on he card and is cross referenced with the registered number they have in the register for your address. You are there in person at your local polling station.

It is less secure as once posted tens of 1000s of votes vanish... it happened regularly last year across the country, I'm surprised nobody chooses to remember this.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10213657.html

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...eports-9195178

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/exp...ot-papers.html

And again during the referendum...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7103066.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7125711.html

Yeah I meant polling. I'm on my tablet typing with thumbs and it likes to auto correct the odd word strangely. On occasion I find this amusing so I haven't turned it off. I wasn't trying to initiate relations of any kind.

As Livia has said it is illegal to mess with the mail. I'm fairly sure it's no less secure to post your vote as it is to do it at the local school.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I have had 4 Birthday cards posted this year that never arrived,3 I sent to others and one that someone sent to me.

I still think the mail is as fairly secure but now there is also rarely a regular postman any more,I have 3 different ones at all times of the day every week.
I agree the post is worse now than I can recall it being, through my life.

Maybe when Theresa May and this govt. bring us out of the EU, they could look at our postal service, this is in fact possibly a good chance and time to look at everything and maybe go back to the drawing board on a lot of things across the UK.

I sent a birthday card and a balloon to a family member who works on a ship that is currently somewhere near New York. Both arrived safely and in time.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I have NEVER taken my polling card to vote at a polling station...also they have the names and address lists in plain view at ours so technically I could 'be' anyone...I think postal votes are more secure tbh, but there is the issue of the stupid amount of mail (not just votes, mail in general) that go 'missing' with royal mail :S

There's odd we do, maybe the 'officials' are not at thorough as is suggested?

There is less mail now than ever, so that's not really a bona fide excuse for mail going missing.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Being a registered voter I have enough information and intelligence to understand the differing methods of voting and their uses, but if it makes you feel better to act superior in all areas then I won't attempt to take that away from you.

As a voter you don't have the kind of information I do as an election agent. That is not setting myself up, nor is it knocking anyone down. It's just the way it is. If someone on here was a professional in a certain area, I'd be interested to hear their opinion, I wouldn't get all huffy because they knew something I didn't.

If you want to continue to trip-trap over my bridge... I won't take that away from you.