[Jack_]

Reminds me of those establishments who break disability laws by not providing access under the guise of 'COST AND SPACE WASNT ACCOMMODATING SOZ x'

Money might be everything to you LT but not it's not to everyone. And anyway, if we follow your line of thinking then the logical solution to save 'COST AND SPACE' is actually to provide unisex toilets, not two. But somehow I'm guessing that's not your real agenda...

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Reminds me of those establishments who break disability laws by not providing access under the guise of 'COST AND SPACE WASNT ACCOMMODATING SOZ x'

Money might be everything to you LT but not it's not to everyone. And anyway, if we follow your line of thinking then the logical solution to save 'COST AND SPACE' is actually to provide unisex toilets, not two. But somehow I'm guessing that's not your real agenda...

The minute you change a routine installation like like loos you add cost so it wont happen. No point thinking it will. The numbers here are so minute the best solution is to go at home of just use the disabled toilet which is already in situ

[Jack_]

It will happen if people campaign for it and generationally it becomes a more socially acceptable idea. Again, I'm sure many people thought desegregation in the US would never happen but it did. I have every belief that in fifty years time this won't be the issue it is now

'Go at home' is not entirely practical and although we're all guilty of it I don't think more people should be encouraged to use disabled toilets if they don't need to

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Jack_

It will happen if people campaign for it and generationally it becomes a more socially acceptable idea. Again, I'm sure many people thought desegregation in the US would never happen but it did. I have every belief that in fifty years time this won't be the issue it is now

'Go at home' is not entirely practical and although we're all guilty of it I don't think more people should be encouraged to use disabled toilets if they don't need to

Who is going to campaign for it? most people actually dont kick up a fuss about this trans-gendered in a bathroom

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

It will happen if people campaign for it and generationally it becomes a more socially acceptable idea. Again, I'm sure many people thought desegregation in the US would never happen but it did. I have every belief that in fifty years time this won't be the issue it is now

'Go at home' is not entirely practical and although we're all guilty of it I don't think more people should be encouraged to use disabled toilets if they don't need to

The problem here is, the most vocal transactivists do NOT want unisex facilities. They want into the female areas. Unisex is not what they campaign for, or want. One might ask, why? Unisex (where possible) is the obvious solution, and these people have a very loud voice, so why not campaign for something that will help them, whilst making others feel more comfortable also? Sometimes it really seems like they (transactivists, not transgender people) just want to make others feel uncomfortable and take away their rights to privacy from males...rather than want, as they claim 'somewhere to pee'

[Jack_]

Are you sure about that? Have you seen the reaction in the States about this issue? The protests? No?

It will happen, just not anytime soon. But I don't know why I'm bothering to reply because three posts down the line you'll be calling me daffodil and saying you're done so

[Denver]

The UK is a more understanding country then the USA

[Jack_]

Well, I wouldn't go too far on that but I guess to an extent we finally agree?

[Denver]

I mean this country has done **** loads for the LGBT community

[Jack_]

In some ways, yes

[Vicky.]

Gender is a social construct though. And sexed areas are separated by...sex. Sex is unchangeable, though science has made it possible to imitate the opposite sex, which has made a lot of people happy. If you 'pass' or could pass, fine. If not, then its kinda unfortunate but these areas are still separated by sex, for now anyway. Once 'gender' trumps sex, both male and female areas will be open to literally anyone. As 'gender' is all in someones head...so...anyone could be male or female whenever they chose to be. I may use this to escape the queues in the womens, though not too sure I could put up with the smell from the urinals...

[VanessaFeltz.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Gender is a social construct though. And sexed areas are separated by...sex. Sex is unchangeable, though science has made it possible to imitate the opposite sex, which has made a lot of people happy. If you 'pass' or could pass, fine. If not, then its kinda unfortunate but these areas are still separated by sex, for now anyway. Once 'gender' trumps sex, both male and female areas will be open to literally anyone. As 'gender' is all in someones head...so...anyone could be male or female whenever they chose to be. I may use this to escape the queues in the womens, though not too sure I could put up with the smell from the urinals...

i mixed it up , now i fixed it

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Gender is a social construct though. And sexed areas are separated by...sex. Sex is unchangeable, though science has made it possible to imitate the opposite sex, which has made a lot of people happy. If you 'pass' or could pass, fine. If not, then its kinda unfortunate but these areas are still separated by sex, for now anyway. Once 'gender' trumps sex, both male and female areas will be open to literally anyone. As 'gender' is all in someones head...so...anyone could be male or female whenever they chose to be. I may use this to escape the queues in the womens, though not too sure I could put up with the smell from the urinals...

Totally agree.You can't change sex.'Gender' seems to be a state of mind but that doesn't and can't effect sex.That is unchangable no matter how many ops are carried out.
The seperation of toilets is based on sex.
I've been to clubs with unisex toilets and it didn't really bother me except the lack of urinals and having to lift the pissy seat up to take a pee.
I don't think the privacy thing bothers men tbh.I been in nightclubs where women would run in and look at your dick while your taking a piss and sometimes try and grab it i was'nt bothered.
However women need their space and womens rights should'nt be violated just to please an extremely small section of society.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Totally agree.You can't change sex.'Gender' seems to be a state of mind but that doesn't and can't effect sex.That is unchangable no matter how many ops are carried out.
The seperation of toilets is based on sex.
I've been to clubs with unisex toilets and it didn't really bother me except the lack of urinals and having to lift the pissy seat up to take a pee.
I don't think the privacy thing bothers men tbh.I been in nightclubs where women would run in and look at your dick while your taking a piss and sometimes try and grab it i was'nt bothered.
However women need their space and womens rights should'nt be violated just to please an extremely small section of society.

Makes sense why those type of women may be happy for unisex bathrooms, I think most of the rest are not though. Also women generally don't want to use 'pissy' seats. Yuk!

Men don't have to sit down, women do - it's unfair to expect women to put up with that. I also agree that all women should not effectively be penalised, in more ways than one, to please as you say a very small section of society.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Totally agree.You can't change sex.'Gender' seems to be a state of mind but that doesn't and can't effect sex.That is unchangable no matter how many ops are carried out.
The seperation of toilets is based on sex.
I've been to clubs with unisex toilets and it didn't really bother me except the lack of urinals and having to lift the pissy seat up to take a pee.
I don't think the privacy thing bothers men tbh.I been in nightclubs where women would run in and look at your dick while your taking a piss and sometimes try and grab it i was'nt bothered.
However women need their space and womens rights should'nt be violated just to please an extremely small section of society.

Most of the clubs I go to have...unofficial unisex facilities. meaning they have male and female but anyone uses either. Its not uncommon to see a couple of gay guys in the womens doing their makeup in the mirror or something (as mens don't have a big mirror apparently...which is odd)

Everyone accepts this as...well in the gay clubs and that you are in 'their territory'

Unisex has never ever bothered me (though I wouldn't feel comfortable changing clothes infront of men. But I don't feel comfortable changing infront of other women either tbh). However, this may well be because I have had in my life, no reason to fear men. I have been lucky enough to have never been attacked by a male, sexually or otherwise. A hell of a lot of women are NOT as lucky as I have been, and I do think they should be considered in all of this.

[Vicky.]

The 'bullied in the mens room' argument doesn't really hold up either, as there have been no attacks on transgender people in mens toilets (there ARE reports of transgender people attacking others in the bathroom of their 'preferred sex' though), none on record anyway. On the other hand there are hoards of reports about gay men being beaten up in loos. Does this mean gay men should be in the womens also as they are bullied and in danger?

Or is the answer to tackle toxic masculinity and the male violence, that everyone seems to be scared of...

People say 'oh, if a transwoman attacks you in the womens there are laws to protect you' and such. But equally, this is true the opposite way. If a transwoman was attacked in the mens, there are the same laws that could be used. So I kinda...don't get it. Though I do understand why not many people like to use the mens...given the amount of violence committed by males for random reasons.

[VanessaFeltz.]

Just because there hasnt been reported many crimes so far that doesnt mean there wont be/there havent been. Transgendered people are VERY vunerable in this type of crimes.

Everyone should get educated better. It breaks my heart to hear that amount of bullying taking place not just for lgbt but for everyone they dont see "fitting in" in schools. Headmasters/teachers should not be afraid and they should take action and punish the violent people harshly.

[Denver]

^^^^^ It is not really a problem in the UK

[Vicky.]

I also challenge anyone to tell me the difference between Rachel Dolezal and 'transgender' people.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...P=share_btn_tw

Story if you didn't know^

In short, she claims she is 'trans-racial' and this is a massive problem apparently. I do not see the difference between claiming to be a different race, and claiming to be a different sex. Except claiming to be a different race, you aren't imposing yourself into areas you shouldn't be. Unless there are areas that I don't know about that are 'Africans only' or something that she was forcing her way into.

[Vicky.]

Ugh. Just been to the shop and I totally understand why kids feel the need to say they are the opposite sex. Prime placing on the chocolate...pink kinder eggs with barbie on them with a sign saying 'for girls' and superhero blue ones 'for boys'. **** that. Everything is too gendered.