[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Z

To be serious for a moment; there will likely never be a time when toys (or... anything, really) will be gender neutral. It's a marketing thing. Too many companies revolve around being on either side of the gender gap. Magazines, toys, literature, grooming products, clothes... it's a utopian ideal that will never be achieved which is why it's so appealing to 'deconstruct' because it'll never actually happen.

Certainly not in our lifetime no, but I've said this in threads on other inequality based topics before in that I genuinely believe as generations evolve so will attitudes to all aspects of life, people will become more tolerant, understanding and open to new ideas and beliefs. Just as black and gay people have been slowly but surely liberated in the last 100 years, so will other minorities and so will other groups that face inequality, that's just the way the world works. It progresses and evolves

Thankfully most of the people who hold the backwards thinking ideas on stuff like gay/black rights won't be around soon enough and with every generation will come more liberal thinking ideas, things are bound to change drastically. Not in our life time, but they will

[Z]

I don't think anyone will ever take what you're arguing seriously though, Jack. I don't think you're wrong or even disagree with you, I just don't think very many people consider 'gendered toys' to even be a problem in the first place. Maybe Barbie really does teach girls unrealistic expectations and boys are considered weird if they want to play with them; but none of that really matters when you fast forward ten years and kids get picked on for wearing glasses/being fat/ginger/unfashionable/gay/whatever reason kids decide to exclude one another to assert themselves. Kids pick on each other for all sorts of reasons, making toys non-gender specific is all good and well but what purpose does it serve? None, in my opinion. People still ostracise one another for all sorts of reasons, the toys you played with as a child don't define you as an adult. They might define what you like as an adult, but so what?

And, because none of us will ever know, we can speculate all we like about how great it might be to have non-gender specific toys, but I'm 100% certain that would come with its own unique set of problems that we can't even imagine because we don't know what that would be like. Nothing in the world is perfect.

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Hm let's see

- Overwhelming ridicule and rejection (case in point: this thread) from people who refuse to understand or listen to how they feel
- The fact that in most places they can't be legally recognised by what they define themselves as
- A perpetuation of the agonising self-doubt/hate and confusion that they already face as a result of numerous things that have been mentioned in this thread

I've already explained the issues, do I really need to go over this again?

Separating toys into genders socialises children into believing that they are naturally supposed to play with certain bits of plastic because that's what they've been taught to, meaning that there's a risk that any child who deters from that and wishes to play with a toy that hasn't been assigned to their gender could face being isolated, rejected and seen as weird for deviating from what's 'normal'.

Not only that, but the gender roles and stereotypes that are encoded within these gender specific toys are appalling. Teaching boys that they need to 'be a man' and 'man up' by playing with action figurines and cars, that they need to be strong, authoritative because that's what being a man is all about. Teaching girls that they need to play with Barbies and miniature kitchens because a girls appearance is very important and you must make yourself look perfect in order to impress the boys and you need to learn your place which is in the home. It just perpetuates these age old stereotypes which need to be eradicated

I see no actual reason for them to be labelled as boys and girls toys, there's no downsides to those labels being removed whatsoever yet there's no clear benefits for them existing, so why do they need to? What's the issue if we stop doing it? It's not about a 'gender neutral utopia' at all that's a wild exaggeration on your part, it's simply letting kids play with whatever bits of plastic they wish not because they've been socialised into thinking they have to play with this because that's the ~natural thing to do as if you emerge from the womb having any idea about toys anyway.

I actually can't believe that some people seemingly think that toy selection is natural and can't seem to understand that everything about it is socialization, we are near-empty blank slates when we're born you know, we're born into a world of codes and messages and stereotypes which we are taught and that shapes the people we become. You aren't born liking Barbie, Big Brother and onesies

I'm not convinced, I fail to see how having this debate in this thread is ridiculing and rejecting the gender opposed people (?) of the world. And legally recognizing a multitude of new gender roles, that's meant to what, makes things easier for people. Also self-doubt/hate is part of life, having a bunch of new labels won't change that.

Anyway we live in a society, leaving kids as black slates won't benefit the society. And in this society, regardless of if the toys are sold to boys or girls, both genders are allowed and do play with them.

Lastly the downside to not being able to categorize toys as girls or boys, is that we're losing a way to simplify the world.

Having stuff like "Non-binary" or "Pangender" on your passport instead of male or female isn't really what the world is crying out for now is it? Although it kinda does come under the heading of first world problems.

[Marsh.]

First world problems. Perfect description.

[Ninastar]

well said claudia.

i just can't take an 'issue' that seriously when there isn't even a problem in the first place

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Jack_

One thing I will never understand about all of this is why some people care so much about an issue that doesn't affect them in the slightest

I realise I'm saying this as a person who has no experience or contact with any transgender person which is somewhat hypocritical but I've been fascinated by gender for a while now so I have reason to take an interest in it. But for those people who it doesn't affect, they have no experience of and they don't understand...I genuinely don't get why you care so much? Things like allowing the legal recognition of genders outside of the binary is not going to have any effect on your life, so why do you care? Most of the issues effect transgenders and any kind of liberation they're searching for is going to have very little impact on your lives so you caring seems pretty pointless to me. Some of these social justice people seem a little bizarre admittedly but well...don't search for it then? I'd get pissed off if I read a load of white nationalist stuff which I've come across on Twitter before...so...I don't look for it. Are you all just trying to rile yourselves up or something?

You don't have to understand it, but if it doesn't have an impact on your lives in any profound way what's there to care about? All that's going to happen is some people are going to feel accepted and liberated meanwhile your life continues as normal, what's wrong with that?

A-FUCKING-MEN.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I'm not convinced, I fail to see how having this debate in this thread is ridiculing and rejecting the gender opposed people (?) of the world. And legally recognizing a multitude of new gender roles, that's meant to what, makes things easier for people. Also self-doubt/hate is part of life, having a bunch of new labels won't change that.

Anyway we live in a society, leaving kids as black slates won't benefit the society. And in this society, regardless of if the toys are sold to boys or girls, both genders are allowed and do play with them.

Lastly the downside to not being able to categorize toys as girls or boys, is that we're losing a way to simplify the world.

Having stuff like "Non-binary" or "Pangender" on your passport instead of male or female isn't really what the world is crying out for now is it? Although it kinda does come under the heading of first world problems.

Very true, I agree with all of this.

[Munchkins]

I'm sort of in the social justice blogging on tumblr just by association :x
but ugh i end up disagreeing with some of them
But i'm just not going to go into much of the discussion i really cba but Jack and Niall i agree.. i just don't see how it concerns people :x so what

[Kyle]

God can you imagine a gender neutral world in the future.

Little boy: mommy I want a train set for christmas

Mom: whooah hold on there jimmy, are you sure? Have you seen the new lipstick barbie doll?

Little boy: I don't want a barbie doll I want hornby train set.

Mom: well Jimmy you see a long time ago those nasty heterosexuals decided that liking trains and cars and Macho soldier things was a lads thing to do and they repressed all the little boys who wanted to play with my little pony and Polly pocket. But the good news is there are no boys toys and girls toys, everything is neutral gender. Now you can play with the barbie like you always wanted.

Little boy: but I don't care about barbie mom I'm not interested in dress up I want to play with trains.

Mom: well are you sure? Cos I'm not forcing you to pick a toy that used to be for boys. Look a pony!

Little boy: I don't care about ponies mom I want a ********* train set.

Mom: tell you what I'll get you the pony because I don't want to look like I'm forcing any archaic male stereotypes on you. Right now you just wait here while I just pop off to the gender neutral toilet. you stay here like a good little neutral person. Oops I said little, how rude and insensitive of me, I of course meant person of non preferential height.

[lily.]

Originally Posted by Z

Jack if you want a Barbie just go and get one I'm honestly not judging

lol

[Apple202]

oh dear at Kyle's post, kinda sad that that's his first response and assumption when someone comes up with a simple idea that promotes equality

[Munchkins]

The thing that annoys me the most about people moaning about the cisphobia on tumblr is, its not actually going to provoke much violence, you're not suddenly going to see cis people being murdered and opressed, in the way that say Trans people are..
Yes the people on tumblr do go too far, and i do find it ridiculous BUT if thats there outlet to let there frustration at constantly being misgendered/harassed/personally attacked for choosing to be who they are then so be it
If there is suddenly a rise in cisphobic attacks, then yes theres a problem, but there isnt, and all these people are doing is posting things like "cis tears" and the fact people get so worked up on it just shows.. imagine if you had to put up with that daily in real life?
Just leave them be.. most of them are young teens who arent accepting and have ****ty home lives.. if moaning and being a bit over the top helps them, let them
I don't believe reacting to discrimination with more hate is going to help the cause at all, but i certainly don't blame them for holding some resentment

[Apple202]

tbh im starting to agree with some of them, obviously not the bat **** crazy ones but it's so annoying how it's always the groups less prejudiced against aka white men and women moaning about how hard they have it and how the tables have turned on them while being completely ignorant or choosing to ignore the prejudice so many other groups of society go through under their noses like my geography teacher always makes sexist jokes and then moans about how women are allowed to take the piss out of men on TV and men supposedly cant do the same it's just like

on the other hand obviously stuff like 'if you're a white cishet man get out' is just as bad as any other form of racism, and i dont like the ones who respond to racism and 'oppresion' (i hate that word now) with more racism against the ones who supposedly oppress them, but some of them can actually make some good points

oh and the whole 'X' gender thing should be a complete non issue, i dont see how anyones choice of gender effects anyone else so why cant they legally be who they feel like they are

[Tom4784]

It's all pretty ridiculous to me, and like Cait said it reeks of First World Problems. It just comes across as a giant plea for attention.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

why?

can we really not say girls toys or boys toys anymore?

This one I agree with 10000%, I don't get why people can't see the implications of labelling things like that. It is absolutely one of the reasons for confusion/bullying/self-hate in the future

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Kyle

God can you imagine a gender neutral world in the future.

Little boy: mommy I want a train set for christmas

Mom: whooah hold on there jimmy, are you sure? Have you seen the new lipstick barbie doll?

Little boy: I don't want a barbie doll I want hornby train set.

Mom: well Jimmy you see a long time ago those nasty heterosexuals decided that liking trains and cars and Macho soldier things was a lads thing to do and they repressed all the little boys who wanted to play with my little pony and Polly pocket. But the good news is there are no boys toys and girls toys, everything is neutral gender. Now you can play with the barbie like you always wanted.

Little boy: but I don't care about barbie mom I'm not interested in dress up I want to play with trains.

Mom: well are you sure? Cos I'm not forcing you to pick a toy that used to be for boys. Look a pony!

Little boy: I don't care about ponies mom I want a ********* train set.

Mom: tell you what I'll get you the pony because I don't want to look like I'm forcing any archaic male stereotypes on you. Right now you just wait here while I just pop off to the gender neutral toilet. you stay here like a good little neutral person. Oops I said little, how rude and insensitive of me, I of course meant person of non preferential height.

are you being serious?

[Me. I Am Salman]

'First world problems' well this kinda thing leads to suicide and self-harm so..

[Me. I Am Salman]

What have I done

I wasn't addressing stuff like this when making this thread

I've created a monster

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Salman!

This one I agree with 10000%, I don't get why people can't see the implications of labelling things like that. It is absolutely one of the reasons for confusion/bullying/self-hate in the future

The labelling of a toy isn't going to affect anyone to that extent, the cause of Self Hate runs deeper then which toys someone played with as a child.

[Apple202]

Originally Posted by Salman!

What have I done

I wasn't addressing stuff like this when making this thread

I've created a monster

ikr i'm siding with the pictures people post in here way more than the posters themselves

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The labelling of a toy isn't going to affect anyone to that extent, the cause of Self Hate runs deeper then which toys someone played with as a child.

exactly.

especially considering it isn't even that bad anymore!

and its not going to get any worse! every day is a step further, gay marriage was finally made legal this week...

as previously mentioned, its just an attention seeking, first world problem that is pushed by people on the internet because they don't talk about it in real life

[Benjamin]

There's me thinking we were in Chat And Games, I seem to have stumbled into serious debates...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I dont understand how you can not identify with either gender

Is this those people who think they are really a cat and stuff?

[Firewire]

fandoms are so annoying omg hate tumblr

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Firewire

"Just a friendly reminder that u should call ur animals by gender-neutral or multiple pronouns. They CAN understand you and YES it is possible for an animal to be trans. Your cat having a penis does not make it male. It is straight up animal abuse to deliberately misgender your pets so please do not do it."

im crying

Best on here by a mile