[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

A more accurate analogy would be a paramilitary undercover group within the UK/British isles itself which also uses rockets and guerilla style warfare, hides amongst the general public and does at times target civilians.. And we did have that with the IRA. But our government didn't indiscriminately bomb large parts of Northern Ireland or carry out such brutal action on the ground.

A stat I read somewhere else:

28 civilian Israeli deaths from Hamas rockets since 2001.

34 civilian British deaths in Northern Ireland conflict since 2001.

Northern Ireland hasn't been firing rockets into the mainland all that time. It's not the same thing at all. Hamas fire rockets at Israel every day, indiscriminately, at residential sites, not military ones. There are always air raid sirens going off. It's only the fact that Israel's defence system is good that the Israeli death toll isn't much, much higher. So many people are armed in Israel, even primary school teachers to protect children against terrorist attack. That doesn't happen on the British mainland, so the analogy isn't a good one. I'm not saying Israel's reaction isn't extreme... it is, the loss of life in Gaza is appalling, no one could argue against that. But people seem to be under the impression that Hamas wouldn't bomb an Israeli school if they could get to it. If Palestine has the same kind of arms and equipment Israel has, the whole place would be a smoking crater.

Something's got to give... I can only hope they can come to some kind of peace agreement the way they have in Northern Ireland.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

Northern Ireland hasn't been firing rockets into the mainland all that time. It's not the same thing at all. Hamas fire rockets at Israel every day, indiscriminately, at residential sites, not military ones. There are always air raid sirens going off. It's only the fact that Israel's defence system is good that the Israeli death toll isn't much, much higher. So many people are armed in Israel, even primary school teachers to protect children against terrorist attack. That doesn't happen on the British mainland, so the analogy isn't a good one. I'm not saying Israel's reaction isn't extreme... it is, the loss of life in Gaza is appalling, no one could argue against that. But people seem to be under the impression that Hamas wouldn't bomb an Israeli school if they could get to it. If Palestine has the same kind of arms and equipment Israel has, the whole place would be a smoking crater.

Something's got to give... I can only hope they can come to some kind of peace agreement the way they have in Northern Ireland.

True but those differences are also why the France analogy would be way off, because that would be two global powers of near equal might and capabilities going to war whereas this conflict is very much imbalanced in almost every way possible. I'm not saying they are right to think this but both Hamas and the IRA would see themselves as the persecuted David taking on the oppressive Goliath of Israel/the UK.

[Kizzy]

You would think if they had been firing everyday for 13yrs then they would have tried something else wouldn't you?as that equates to 1 civillian death every 170 days.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

True but those differences are also why the France analogy would be way off, because that would be two global powers of near equal might and capabilities going to war whereas this conflict is very much imbalanced in almost every way possible. I'm not saying they are right to think this but both Hamas and the IRA would see themselves as the persecuted David taking on the oppressive Goliath of Israel/the UK.

I see that... the thing with Northern Ireland was that no one was listening to anyone while large scale bombings and shootings were taking place and it took both sides to move toward a peace process. The two sides had to stop and talk to one another. I can't see that happening in Israel any time soon... sadly.

[arista]

Five Palestinians Killed On 'Day Of Rage'






http://news.sky.com/story/1307393/fi...on-day-of-rage

when will it end?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

Northern Ireland hasn't been firing rockets into the mainland all that time. It's not the same thing at all. Hamas fire rockets at Israel every day, indiscriminately, at residential sites, not military ones. There are always air raid sirens going off. It's only the fact that Israel's defence system is good that the Israeli death toll isn't much, much higher. So many people are armed in Israel, even primary school teachers to protect children against terrorist attack. That doesn't happen on the British mainland, so the analogy isn't a good one. I'm not saying Israel's reaction isn't extreme... it is, the loss of life in Gaza is appalling, no one could argue against that. But people seem to be under the impression that Hamas wouldn't bomb an Israeli school if they could get to it. If Palestine has the same kind of arms and equipment Israel has, the whole place would be a smoking crater.

Something's got to give... I can only hope they can come to some kind of peace agreement the way they have in Northern Ireland.

the palestinians have been treated infinitely worse than the northern irish, at least they had a country

[Northern Monkey]

There is no real comparative analogy for this conflict,It's quite a unique situation but you get what i'm saying.No country including Britain would stand by and do nothing whilst rockets were fired at them.They would do exactly as Israel are doing and strike any military targets they found wether there was civilians there or not.Atleast the Israelis are warning people to leave the area before they strike.Hamas are turning the hospitals,schools and residential areas into targets deliberatly to cause Palistinian deaths.They don't have to fire rockets from these areas or store weapons there,They do it for propaganda.

[arista]

[Gaza fighting continues as both sides reject others' ceasefire announcements
Death toll rises to more than 1,030 as Unicef says 218 children have been killed, two-thirds of them under the age of 12]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ect-ceasefires

[lostalex]

the palestinians have to stop this, and ask to be part of Israel. it's the only solution i see. and Israel must accept Palestinians as full citizens with full rights as Israeli citizens. It's the only way i see this can end well. Equal rights for Palestinians is the only way, and Palestinians accepting that there is no such county as palestine anymore. it is sad that their country has ended, but most of the world has had sovereign countries die, how many countries from 500 years ago still exists with the same borders? i can't think of any. They need to accept that Palestine doesn't exist, and they need to be included as full Israeli citizens and embraced by Israel. israel cannot be a "jewish state" if we ever want peace. It needs to be a secular country, and have a freedom of religion built into it's constitution like the US for this to work. Israel cannot continue to exist as a jewish state, and Palestine does not exist as a country any more. it's still okay for muslims to remember and appreciate the former palestine, just like Italy remembers and appreciates it's former roman empire, but they need to accept that it doesn't exist anymore.

They should all be Israelis with full rights, period. if Israel does become a majority muslim country, Jews need to accept that, and be as tolerant and accepting as possible. If they put a proper constitution and bill of rights and government and court in place, then it shouldn't be a problem. Jews need to accept that they will probably be a minority in Israel eventually. Just like whites in America have to accept that hispanics will be the majority in the US soon.

No room for racism AT ALL.

[billy123]

Absolutely terrifying.
This guy is livestreaming from gaza and they just hit a house a few yards away from his house with a small shell (the knock) so they are expecing it to be destroyed anytime in the next hour by rocket attack.
The place is currently lit up with flares from Israeli forces ready to take out the building.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/jehadels

The constant sound of the drones is enough to drive you insane.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by lostalex

whites in America have to accept that hispanics will be the majority in the US soon.

wait wut?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

There is no real comparative analogy for this conflict,It's quite a unique situation but you get what i'm saying.No country including Britain would stand by and do nothing whilst rockets were fired at them.They would do exactly as Israel are doing and strike any military targets they found wether there was civilians there or not.Atleast the Israelis are warning people to leave the area before they strike.Hamas are turning the hospitals,schools and residential areas into targets deliberatly to cause Palistinian deaths.They don't have to fire rockets from these areas or store weapons there,They do it for propaganda.

no the UK wouldnt do what israel are doing, because they wouldnt steal a country, keep stealing more land, blockading and effectively starving people and denying the country of palestine the right to exist....then bombing the hell of of thousands of mostly innocent people too. the way israel treat palestine is 1000 worse than the way the english monarchy treated little old wales but that was 700 years ago. thats how far back israel are in terms of their mental , moral and spiritual development. this is a sumbag country. it should never have been set up 70 years ago , they had no right to go there and steal that land in the first place. now they are there, clearly both sides must drop their weapons. we have blood on our hands for setting up this disaster 70 years ago and for supplying so many weapons.

the UN has had avote to allow palestine in as a country , by 200+ to 9 against yet its rights are still ignored because the US and UK went against it and thats where the weapons are...we the UK went against the democratic and legal right of palestine to exist as a country. it seems as though its israel who wants to wipe palestine off the map and not the other way around. we brits have cowards in charge. make palestine a country, save these innocent peole, give them democracy and guess what if they have that real democracy and the rights that entails they will then not feel the need to allow the likes of hammas to take over. 2 state solution but someone has to compromise and that someone has to be israel.....

maybe by ad 5057 theyll talk , if theres anyone left alive

[Livia]

Hammas fighters have continued to fire their rockets into Israel during the last couple of "ceasefires"; they have fired them from the roofs of flats, from hospitals and from schools using their own people as human shields. They should be condemned as heartily as Israel is being condemned. Palestine has the sympathy and the attention of the world, every news bulleting features their most heart-rending pictures, injured children, crying women... so why are Hamas continuing to fire on Israel - even during ceasefires - knowing that Israel will retaliate in a violent way?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

Hammas fighters have continued to fire their rockets into Israel during the last couple of "ceasefires"; they have fired them from the roofs of flats, from hospitals and from schools using their own people as human shields. They should be condemned as heartily as Israel is being condemned. Palestine has the sympathy and the attention of the world, every news bulleting features their most heart-rending pictures, injured children, crying women... so why are Hamas continuing to fire on Israel - even during ceasefires - knowing that Israel will retaliate in a violent way?

palestine should be recognised as a country and should have all the rights all nations have. the fact they have hammas there is a side effect from the disgusting persecution of the palestinians by the israelis. the israelis must recognise the right of palestine to be a country. this gesture would in turn allow israel to be recognised as a legitimate country. this is the ONLy way this disaster can ever move forward

[Crimson Dynamo]

Both sides now have convincing cast iron arguments. They make perfect sense to each.

[the truth]

1336 palestinians dead 56 israelis
the evil israelis have bombed schools and hospitals galore
theyve even bombed a UN building now thats killed umpteen kids in their classrooms
when will the world ever stand up to the jews>?????

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

1336 palestinians dead 56 israelis
the evil israelis have bombed schools and hospitals galore
theyve even bombed a UN building now thats killed umpteen kids in their classrooms
when will the world ever stand up to the jews>?????

You mean... when will the world stand up to the ISRAELIS.

[arista]

Originally Posted by the truth

1336 palestinians dead 56 israelis
the evil israelis have bombed schools and hospitals galore
theyve even bombed a UN building now thats killed umpteen kids in their classrooms
when will the world ever stand up to the jews>?????

You do not have to keep using that word.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

Hammas fighters have continued to fire their rockets into Israel during the last couple of "ceasefires"; they have fired them from the roofs of flats, from hospitals and from schools using their own people as human shields. They should be condemned as heartily as Israel is being condemned. Palestine has the sympathy and the attention of the world, every news bulleting features their most heart-rending pictures, injured children, crying women... so why are Hamas continuing to fire on Israel - even during ceasefires - knowing that Israel will retaliate in a violent way?

Yes Fecking Tony Blair
does Feck All to Help.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Fecking Tony Blair
does Feck All to Help.

It's beyond my comprehension that he was made a Middle East peace envoy. Who the hell made that call?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's beyond my comprehension that he was made a Middle East peace envoy. Who the hell made that call?

its one of the most ridiculous appointments in history

the guy is actually demented

he is the only politician who is worse than his spitting image portrayal

[the truth]

tony bliar is a war criminal

[Novo]

We need to start making music and stop making wars

Message brought to you by ~~ MGW ~~

[arista]

Youtube video

Ch4HD news
Jon Snow recounts the scene in Gaza's al-Shifa hospital, where doctors struggle to treat adults and children wounded by Israeli attacks.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...cked-channel-4

Youtube video

Youtube video

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jon Snow annihilates Israeli spokes person is the name of the video and he did no such thing. The guy answered all the questions in a polite and level headed manner. Where is the Hamas leader on C4 answering questions about rockets?