[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Withano

Sexual assault.. As in without consent.. Yes? That's hard to disagree with by anybody's standards

The definition of sexual assault that I am familiar with is the one where someone criminally assaults another person in a sexual fashion.

Joel feels responsible for aaron leaving so is he responsible for being assaulted? Or are you just overreacting and this wasn't actually an assault?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Withano

What I find most astonishing about this thread is that people think that their own opinions are more important than Joel's.

Bottom line is: if the victim was made uncomfortable, then the persecutor was in the wrong.

Joel made it crystal ****ing clear that the advances were unwelcome and the line is not up for anybody but Joel to determine.

Nobody is saying that at all.
He was running around chucking stuff and laughing, at worst Aaron totally misread the situation...as did most of the people in the room seemingly.

It would have made it clearer if he had left the room and not participated in any naked bedroom antics at all.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Withano

What I find most astonishing about this thread is that people think that their own opinions are more important than Joel's.

Bottom line is: if the victim was made uncomfortable, then the persecutor was in the wrong.

Joel made it crystal ****ing clear that the advances were unwelcome and the line is not up for anybody but Joel to determine.

I agree with the BIB.

Joel thinks that aaron should not have been evicted. Why do people think their opinion that he should have been is more important?

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Considering how much you hate the show I'm frankly amazed you're still here to give such an idiotic opinion.

Pointing out that men and women are different is an "idiotic opinion". Okay.

Maybe live feed would have made me see a borderline sexual assault differently. Those editors

A "borderline sexual assault"

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

Pointing out that men and women are different is an "idiotic opinion". Okay.




A "borderline sexual assault"

You consider a sexual assault to be what exactly?

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Withano

What I find most astonishing about this thread is that people think that their own opinions are more important than Joel's.

Bottom line is: if the victim was made uncomfortable, then the persecutor was in the wrong.

Who is saying he wasn't in the wrong? We're just saying it was over the top to throw him out.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

Who is saying he wasn't in the wrong? We're just saying it was over the top to throw him out.

And Joel agrees with us.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Rob!

You consider a sexual assault to be what exactly?

The worst you could say of that incident was that it was harassment. And a very minor example if so. And I'm not sure I'd even call it that.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

And Joel agrees with us.

Has Joel said he agrees with Aaron being thrown out?

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

The worst you could say of that incident was that it was harassment. And a very minor example if so. And I'm not sure I'd even call it that.

Ok, I can accept that - sexual harassment. But it's different because it was a man doing it to a man as opposed to if say Danny was doing it to one of the twins?

[mrflibble]

Relative to other behaviour that has gone unpunished and what other housemates have been ejected for, I don't think he should've been ejected. A warning would've been totally sufficient. Yes, he went too far but he thought he was having a laugh with a friend and it was in playful spirit. I'm not an Aaron fan and Joel was clearly uncomfortable and not inviting it, but the other housemates were egging Aaron on and laughing at it and to eject Aaron and not put any blame on the others is a bit unfair. I think a serious warning would've made Aaron take a look at his behaviour and stop it. It doesn't make any difference to me if it had been guy/girl or girl/guy; I think it's inappropriate behaviour, but not enough to eject someone for.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Ok, I can accept that - sexual harassment. But it's different because it was a man doing it to a man as opposed to if say Danny was doing it to one of the twins?

I think it would be worse if it was a man doing it to a young girl, yes. We men are used to seeing each other naked and messing around.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

I think it would be worse if it was a man doing it to a young girl, yes. We men are used to seeing each other naked and messing around.

Not all men are used to seeing other men naked and certainly not all men are used to having a naked guy rubbing up on them and trying to bend them over, stop generalising and trying to make what happened less serious to fit your own messed up views.

[Moya_shark]

Surely, a stern warning+ punishment would have been enough. No one remembers Bianca rolling around in sewage water last year? I bet some housemates fell uncomfortable then too. Aaron probably didn't deserve to get kicked out but I ain't mad at it.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

Has Joel said he agrees with Aaron being thrown out?

No he has said he doesn't agree with aaron being thrown out. I am on the same side as you. I am saying that Joel agrees with you and I that it shouldn't have been an ejection.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Not all men are used to seeing other men naked and certainly not all men are used to having a naked guy rubbing up on them and trying to bend them over, stop generalising and trying to make what happened less serious to fit your own messed up views.

What happened was not at all serious.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

I think it would be worse if it was a man doing it to a young girl, yes. We men are used to seeing each other naked and messing around.

Are we?

But put things into perspective - Aaron made it clear he fancied Joel, then proceeded to do everything that we saw tonight. Joel says he is straight - which should be good enough for anyone - and that he felt uncomfortable with Aaron was doing.
Where is the difference? Are you saying that Joel should have toughned up and just dealt with what was going on?

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

No he has said he doesn't agree with aaron being thrown out. I am on the same side as you. I am saying that Joel agrees with you and I that it shouldn't have been an ejection.

Ah okay. Sorry.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

What happened was not at all serious.

Agreed.

I made the point earlier that in some previous series the incident probably wouldn't have made the highlights show.

It was some drunk people messing about, followed by sly joel seeing the chance to throw aaron under the bus in the diary room.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Are we?

But put things into perspective - Aaron made it clear he fancied Joel, then proceeded to do everything that we saw tonight. Joel says he is straight - which should be good enough for anyone - and that he felt uncomfortable with Aaron was doing.
Where is the difference? Are you saying that Joel should have toughned up and just dealt with what was going on?

No, I think Aaron went too far, but it wasn't that serious and it was calmed down immediately by BB and a warning would have been sufficient. Kicking the guy out was absurd.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

Agreed.

I made the point earlier that in some previous series the incident probably wouldn't have made the highlights show.

It was some drunk people messing about, followed by sly joel seeing the chance to throw aaron under the bus in the diary room.

I don't know if Joel was being sly. He was clearly fed up and I didn't like how the other housemates treated Joel during the spin the bottle game, and I can't stand Aaron, but I've never seen such an overreaction on this show to anything.

[Liam-]

I haven't got time for some of the, quite frankly, moronic and abhorrent opinions people have on this matter, victim shaming and blaming is never good, especially when it's clear as day that said victim has been sexually assaulted, it actually makes me worry about this world that people see fit to sympathise with the perpetrator and lay blame at the victims door.

Man or woman, nobody should have to deal with being made to feel uncomfortable, they shouldn't have to deal with perverts invading their personal space just because said person is drunk, or just because said person is the same sex as them, sexual harassment is sexual harassment and it should be death with properly and it has been, end of story, stop embarrassing yourselves.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I haven't got time for some of the, quite frankly, moronic and abhorrent opinions people have on this matter, victim shaming and blaming is never good, especially when it's clear as day that said victim has been sexually assaulted, it actually makes me worry about this world that people see fit to sympathise with the perpetrator and lay blame at the victims door.

Man or woman, nobody should have to deal with being made to feel uncomfortable, they shouldn't have to deal with perverts invading their personal space just because said person is drunk, or just because said person is the same sex as them, sexual harassment is sexual harassment and it should be death with properly.

I agree, the death penalty should be reintroduced for Aaron.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I haven't got time for some of the, quite frankly, moronic and abhorrent opinions people have on this matter, victim shaming and blaming is never good, especially when it's clear as day that said victim has been sexually assaulted, it actually makes me worry about this world that people see fit to sympathise with the perpetrator and lay blame at the victims door.

Man or woman, nobody should have to deal with being made to feel uncomfortable, they shouldn't have to deal with perverts invading their personal space just because said person is drunk, or just because said person is the same sex as them, sexual harassment is sexual harassment and it should be death with properly and it has been, end of story, stop embarrassing yourselves.

So why has this "victim" said he feels responsible for aaron going, wants him back in and thinks he was a good friend and a good housemate? And why aren't the police involved? Doesn't everyone have a duty to make sure this dangerous sex attacker doesn't assault others in future?

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

I agree, the death penalty should be reintroduced for Aaron.

Death by a thousand ******s?

The starred out word rhymes with runts.