[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Perhaps someone on one of the other threads should post a list of unarmed black people shot by cops in the US over the last 2 years.

What's that? That wouldn't be legitimate? It would be meaningless without context, you say? It would be totally different? Hmmmmm.


Also not sure what you're trying to prove by pointing out that there has been an increase in terror activity. Like it somehow proves your point? It would be equally valid (and in my opinion, far more accurate) to point out that the increase in home grown Lone Wolf terrorism goes hand in hand with the increase in xenophobic cultural rejection. You know. That "multiculturalism has failed" soundbite that keeps bleating on repeat?

Maybe 'Multiculturalism has failed' is the new mantra similar to 'let's take back control' that Mr McKenna advocated as a tool of social control during the referendum?...

[Tom4784]

Yes we must wait for more evidence before we even THINK of suggesting that a white person may have inspired this crime, it's so annoying that this wasn't a Islamic act of terrorism so we could all throw out generalisations about millions of people and display questionable opinions without the burden of proof!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yes we must wait for more evidence before we even THINK of suggesting that a white person may have inspired this crime, it's so annoying that this wasn't a Islamic act of terrorism so we could all throw out generalisations about millions of people and display questionable opinions without the burden of proof!

Doesn't matter how much proof there is, if a signed confession comes to light written by the boy himself outlining exactly why he did it, and it has nothing to do with "a failure of multiculturalism" (and can't be twisted as such), the people who have already decided and stated their opinions on the causes of this attack and what it "means for the world" will most likely simply never post about it again.

[user104658]

Thread has been dead since the story changed.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Doesn't matter how much proof there is, if a signed confession comes to light written by the boy himself outlining exactly why he did it, and it has nothing to do with "a failure of multiculturalism" (and can't be twisted as such), the people who have already decided and stated their opinions on the causes of this attack and what it "means for the world" will most likely simply never post about it again.

Called it before it happened.

Where are all of those passionate voices now? Not one to be seen, because it can no longer be claimed as a "win" for those who want the world divided along cultural borders, and are they here to say "oh it seems like we were wrong about this shooting and it doesn't signal what we thought at all"? Nope. Thread abandonned, forget it ever happened, jump back on the train next time there's an attack and hope the attacker's profile is right then.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Thread has been dead since the story changed.

Called it before it happened.

Where are all of those passionate voices now? Not one to be seen, because it can no longer be claimed as a "win" for those who want the world divided along cultural borders, and are they here to say "oh it seems like we were wrong about this shooting and it doesn't signal what we thought at all"? Nope. Thread abandonned, forget it ever happened, jump back on the train next time there's an attack and hope the attacker's profile is right then.

What's the point? You've already got all the answers, right? You're so brilliant TS, you're never wrong. We should just close serious debates and defer to you everytime there's something to discuss so we can see what we're all supposed to think.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

What's the point? You've already got all the answers, right? You're so brilliant TS, you're never wrong. We should just close serious debates and defer to you everytime there's something to discuss so we can see what we're all supposed to think.

Or we could all start getting sarcastic and snippy as soon as we have nothing left to back up our dubious prejudices? That would vastly improve things.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's more to do with the victims I think... it's still technically classed as terrorism but it's that other "meh, whatever then" terrorism that happens when the victims aren't wEuropean or American (Canadian, Australian, etc.).

You know, like when schools get massacred in the Middle East and people say "Aw shame did you see EastEnders last night?" "That" sort of terrorism.

Judging by the number of responses to the Kabul thread it would seem you're right

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Thread has been dead since the story changed.

Called it before it happened.

Where are all of those passionate voices now? Not one to be seen, because it can no longer be claimed as a "win" for those who want the world divided along cultural borders, and are they here to say "oh it seems like we were wrong about this shooting and it doesn't signal what we thought at all"? Nope. Thread abandonned, forget it ever happened, jump back on the train next time there's an attack and hope the attacker's profile is right then.

This is so true. It was the same with the Jo Cox murder, as soon as it emerged the perpetrator was a white man who had far-right political leanings, it was no longer about terrorism and clamping down on a poisonous ideology, more 'oh he was just a gardener that was a bit of a loner and had mental health issues ' and the discussion was over

[Jack_]

Wait so he might not have links to IS?!?! Muslims aren't to blame?! I wonder if this is still terrorism then? or is it terrorism cause he's a brown person and only brown people can be terrorists? Which is the main factor Muslim or brown idk?!?! Cause Jo Cox's white far right killer wasn't a terrorist even though he was a terrorist but it was just mental illness so what's it to be here?!?!?!

I don't know whether to laugh, cry, fume, be confused or what at the anti-multiculturalism sentiments anymore. The worst thing is you are playing right into the hands of Islamic fundamentalists. Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want? They don't want normal, civilised, law-abiding Muslims to be accepted by you and me. They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us. The entire point of terrorism is to strike fear into people and make them question the society they live in and the people around them. They want you to assume that all Muslims are to blame for this and they must all be sent home immediately because these people don't want them to be a part of Westernised culture at all!

You are giving them exactly what they want. Make people feel isolated, marginalised, criticised and then give them an outlet from which to vent their festering hatred. This is precisely how people are radicalised. We are already part of the problem and now lots seem to want to exacerbate said problem by giving them exactly the response that they want.

By letting them win, you are making the problem worse.

[MB.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Wait so he might not have links to IS?!?! Muslims aren't to blame?! I wonder if this is still terrorism then? or is it terrorism cause he's a brown person and only brown people can be terrorists? Which is the main factor Muslim or brown idk?!?! Cause Jo Cox's white far right killer wasn't a terrorist even though he was a terrorist but it was just mental illness so what's it to be here?!?!?!

I don't know whether to laugh, cry, fume, be confused or what at the anti-multiculturalism sentiments anymore. The worst thing is you are playing right into the hands of Islamic fundamentalists. Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want? They don't want normal, civilised, law-abiding Muslims to be accepted by you and me. They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us. The entire point of terrorism is to strike fear into people and make them question the society they live in and the people around them. They want you to assume that all Muslims are to blame for this and they must all be sent home immediately because these people don't want them to be a part of Westernised culture at all!

You are giving them exactly what they want. Make people feel isolated, marginalised, criticised and then give them an outlet from which to vent their festering hatred. This is precisely how people are radicalised. We are already part of the problem and now lots seem to want to exacerbate said problem by giving them exactly the response that they want.

By letting them win, you are making the problem worse.

Nail, meet head

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Wait so he might not have links to IS?!?! Muslims aren't to blame?! I wonder if this is still terrorism then? or is it terrorism cause he's a brown person and only brown people can be terrorists? Which is the main factor Muslim or brown idk?!?! Cause Jo Cox's white far right killer wasn't a terrorist even though he was a terrorist but it was just mental illness so what's it to be here?!?!?!

I don't know whether to laugh, cry, fume, be confused or what at the anti-multiculturalism sentiments anymore. The worst thing is you are playing right into the hands of Islamic fundamentalists. Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want? They don't want normal, civilised, law-abiding Muslims to be accepted by you and me. They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us. The entire point of terrorism is to strike fear into people and make them question the society they live in and the people around them. They want you to assume that all Muslims are to blame for this and they must all be sent home immediately because these people don't want them to be a part of Westernised culture at all!

You are giving them exactly what they want. Make people feel isolated, marginalised, criticised and then give them an outlet from which to vent their festering hatred. This is precisely how people are radicalised. We are already part of the problem and now lots seem to want to exacerbate said problem by giving them exactly the response that they want.

By letting them win, you are making the problem worse.

Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want?
They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.


Have ISIS released this as a statement that I missed or have they brought out a manifesto?


Where did you read this Jack?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want?
They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.


Have ISIS released this as a statement that I missed or have they brought out a manifesto?


Where did you read this Jack?

It's factual counter terrorism advise, it's part of the PREVENT strategy that not many people appear to have taken on board.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's factual counter terrorism advise, it's part of the PREVENT strategy that not many people appear to have taken on board.

Is it this one?

Prevent strategy 'could end up promoting extremism'

he Prevent programme was introduced as part of the government’s post-September 11 counter-terrorism strategy, aimed at stopping people becoming terrorists. However, the strategy remains deeply controversial.

Some critics believe Prevent is counter-productive and discriminates against Muslims, while others have said there is no clear way to measure its effectiveness.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ism-maina-kiai

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Is it this one?

Prevent strategy 'could end up promoting extremism'

he Prevent programme was introduced as part of the government’s post-September 11 counter-terrorism strategy, aimed at stopping people becoming terrorists. However, the strategy remains deeply controversial.

Some critics believe Prevent is counter-productive and discriminates against Muslims, while others have said there is no clear way to measure its effectiveness.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ism-maina-kiai

That may have been sold as justification for scaling back funding perhaps, but what was the alternative? Oh, that's right there wasn't one apart from the relentless media demonisation.

Anyhoo have a flick through yourself.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...egy-review.pdf

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want?
They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.


Have ISIS released this as a statement that I missed or have they brought out a manifesto?


Where did you read this Jack?

Specifically, the grey zone refers to the sphere of coexistence where Muslim and non-Muslim might live together. That’s anathema to the frightened young men of Isis, who yearn for a world divided on binary lines, with room for only two categories – them and the infidel.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-zone-jihadism

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...errorists-isis

IN A STATEMENT PUBLISHED in its online magazine, Dabiq, this February, the militant group the Islamic State warned that “Muslims in the West will soon find themselves between one of two choices.” ...

While ISIS initially endorsed the killings on purely religious grounds, calling the murdered cartoonists blasphemers, in Dabiq the group offered another, more chilling rationale for its support.

The attack had “further [brought] division to the world,” the group said, boasting that it had polarized society and “eliminated the grayzone,” representing coexistence between religious groups. As a result, it said, Muslims living in the West would soon no longer be welcome in their own societies. Treated with increasing suspicion, distrust and hostility by their fellow citizens as a result of the deadly shooting, Western Muslims would soon be forced to “either apostatize … or they [migrate] to the Islamic State, and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens,” the group stated, while threatening of more attacks to come.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/...-and-the-west/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-zone-jihadism

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...errorists-isis



https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/...-and-the-west/

Thankyou

But what has this got to do with the failure of multiculturalism?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Thankyou

But what has this got to do with the failure of multiculturalism?

There is no 'failure of multiculturalism'. You are missing the point. IS want multiculturalism to fail, it is written for you in plain sight right there.

By pandering to their wishes, you are exacerbating the problem.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want?
They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.


Have ISIS released this as a statement that I missed or have they brought out a manifesto?

I'm starting to think that you legitimately might just be taking the **** now LT. Forget ISIS, you're claiming that you don't know about or understand one of the most very basic aims of terrorism in all forms.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm starting to think that you legitimately might just be taking the **** now LT. Forget ISIS, you're claiming that you don't know about or understand one of the most very basic aims of terrorism in all forms.

Incorrect TS I am aware of the claims made as to the strategy of IS (and I dont think they really have one tbh) but this stuff gets trotted out as fact a lot but it reads like a James BOnd movie script and I tend to hear it from "security experts" on the tv and i have no idea why they are experts and where they get this stuff. But Jack answered my question well with an IS quote so you dont need to worry. Thankyou Jack.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Youtube video

Poor Owen first to comment after the poll result announced (he was right about vile "faith" schools tho)

[arista]

As I stated at AM time on this thread
This Evil Terrorist used facebook
to get kids to go to that McD,
So he Could kill them


Isis - has nothing to do with it

But he was Still a Terrorist loner
and Bought His Gun from Albanians
in Germany.

Out there Guns are Easy to buy

[arista]

The last bullet this Punk Fired
was in his own Head.

[Jack_]

As Greg said, if Londoners didn't like multiculturalism they wouldn't have voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, and they certainly wouldn't have rejected one of the nastiest dog whistle campaigns in British political history to elect the city's first Muslim mayor.

If anything London isn't multicultural enough. When I visited New York last month one of the most noticeable and lovely things for me was just how diverse it was. Thousands of people from different cultures and ethnic backgrounds all coexisting peacefully.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Greg!

I am but I'm going off evidence to support my view. The vast majority of Londoners voted to stay in the EU which would suggest they don't think immigration is a huge problem

Originally Posted by Jack_

As Greg said, if Londoners didn't like multiculturalism they wouldn't have voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, and they certainly wouldn't have rejected one of the nastiest dog whistle campaigns in British political history to elect the city's first Muslim mayor.

If anything London isn't multicultural enough. When I visited New York last month one of the most noticeable and lovely things for me was just how diverse it was. Thousands of people from different cultures and ethnic backgrounds all coexisting peacefully.

London, being so very multicultural now, voted to stay in the EU. That's probably because a huge proportion of people living in London now are incomers. Places like Basildon and Brentwood, home to hoards of east Londoners who've moved out of London, voted overwhelmingly to leave.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Livia

London, being so very multicultural now, voted to stay in the EU. That's probably because a huge proportion of people living in London now are incomers.

Or maybe it's because they are tolerant of people from other cultures and backgrounds?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Or maybe it's because they are tolerant of people from other cultures and backgrounds?

You imply that the white indigenous people from east London are all intolerant. The fact is that London has always been multicultural. I worked at the local college where over 100 languages were recognised. My school had kids from all over the world. However, in the last ten years it's tipped the balance. More people came, more locals left... it's not the same place now. And no one asked them whether they wanted things to stay the same or to increase immigration. It's changed the whole culture, people who've been there for generations and mixed quite happily with other cultures - there were black people in what became Newham in Victorian times, the Royal Docks brought people in from all over - barely recognise the place. It doesn't make them xenophobes and it doesn't make them intolerant to feel that the balance has been tipped too far.