[Denver]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

One of the biggest failures that has gone under the radar a little is under staffing, we built field hospitals which is great but who have we got to work in them.
Removing the bursary led to a drop in uptake in nursing degrees, the reduction of immigration for low paid workers has added to that shortfall. Now we have shiny new hospitals and no nurses.. Where's the backlash?

They gave all students in their final year a pass and asked people to come out of retirement I'm not sure what else could have been done

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Liam-

.

Let’s not forget that before lockdown they purposely downgraded the virus so that they wouldn’t have to adhere to the stricter ppe measures that would have been in place.

The simple fact that flights from infected countries are still allowed to come in should be pissing more people off than it is, but then again #BackBoris

The Scientists downgraded it and Boris acted on what he was told so that blame lays with scientists not the government

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

.





The simple fact that flights from infected countries are still allowed to come in should be pissing more people off than it is, but then again #BackBoris

Only if you're living in early March? I don't know why people haven't realised that having a few thousand people fly in from other infected countries, of whom maybe a few dozen might be infected, makes absolutely no difference in the UK where there are likely already millions of infections. Like literally zero difference. People are complaining about flights coming in from "infected places" like we aren't one of the infected places! The passengers are statistically less likely to have the virus than your next door neighbour.

People have taken guidance from months ago when we had few cases and were still trying to track n trace and are applying it to a country that is in the middle of an active pandemic.

Tl;Dr... For now, it doesn't matter if a few plane passengers are carrying Covid.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Liam-

.

Let’s not forget that before lockdown they purposely downgraded the virus so that they wouldn’t have to adhere to the stricter ppe measures that would have been in place.

The simple fact that flights from infected countries are still allowed to come in should be pissing more people off than it is, but then again #BackBoris

To be fair if they are British citizens we have a duty to repatriate them. Anyone who has come back from anywhere should have been quarantined though. They brought my nephew back from tenerife about 4 weeks ago, I was shocked he went straight back to work!

[Denver]

The thing I disagree with the most is not making people self isolate on arriving back in the country as in the earlier stages it could have helped a lot

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

One of the biggest failures that has gone under the radar a little is under staffing, we built field hospitals which is great but who have we got to work in them.
Removing the bursary led to a drop in uptake in nursing degrees, the reduction of immigration for low paid workers has added to that shortfall. Now we have shiny new hospitals and no nurses.. Where's the backlash?

I agree with you there Kizzy (a miracle!) - the total failure to address NHS understaffing that's been going on (and getting worse!) for years now is a huge problem, and very much an austerity/Tory problem. And they've tried to solve it by throwing volunteers and students at the problem as though that's a viable alternative to having a full roster of properly trained staff.

[Denver]

I'm also not sure they should make nurses go to Uni? I know they never use to

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Only if you're living in early March? I don't know why people haven't realised that having a few thousand people fly in from other infected countries, of whom maybe a few dozen might be infected, makes absolutely no difference in the UK where there are likely already millions of infections. Like literally zero difference. People are complaining about flights coming in from "infected places" like we aren't one of the infected places! The passengers are statistically less likely to have the virus than your next door neighbour.

People have taken guidance from months ago when we had few cases and were still trying to track n trace and are applying it to a country that is in the middle of an active pandemic.

Tl;Dr... For now, it doesn't matter if a few plane passengers are carrying Covid.

A few dozen on a plane could infect the whole plane, so that is full planes arriving unaware they are infected. I still say that regardless of the current infection rate for their own safety and that of the vulnerable they might come into contact with isolation for 7 days is beneficial.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree with you there Kizzy (a miracle!) - the total failure to address NHS understaffing that's been going on (and getting worse!) for years now is a huge problem, and very much an austerity/Tory problem. And they've tried to solve it by throwing volunteers and students at the problem as though that's a viable alternative to having a full roster of properly trained staff.

It's not a mirace I talk a lot of sense ..the probability was you would agree with me at some point.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

A few dozen on a plane could infect the whole plane, so that is full planes arriving unaware they are infected. I still say that regardless of the current infection rate for their own safety and that of the vulnerable they might come into contact with isolation for 7 days is beneficial.

I still think this thinking is based on the idea that someone coming in on a plane is more likely to be a carrier than the average Brit... Which just isn't true at this point. If anything we should ban OUTGOING flights to protect others from US.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

I'm also not sure they should make nurses go to Uni? I know they never use to

Well ..That's got s grain of truth to it too, it is vocational and I've heard it's not as clinically based as it should be... My sister still reminds me when it's enrollment, she's disappointed I didn't follow her. Haha!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I still think this thinking is based on the idea that someone coming in on a plane is more likely to be a carrier than the average Brit... Which just isn't true at this point. If anything we should ban OUTGOING flights to protect others from US.

Ive just explained what my thinking is based on, I can't speak for everyone though, I'll let you do that.

[Nicky91]

quite a lot of governments messed up from the beginning here

but who are doing good jobs now for me personally are: Italy (with added help from Russia and Cuba they made the spread slow down, numbers decrease now) Germany (Merkel is a very stable leader especially worth a mention how she handles this crisis), France (Macron also shows to be quite stable as leader, no nonsense going for safety over economy which is how it should in every country around the world)

Belgium (who even do not have a real government, their interim government handled properly opting quite fast for total lockdown)


Austria, Denmark going quickly for lockdowns, especially denmark who had events without audiences even sooner

Czech Republic, who first in lockdown, now closed their border too (but giving permission for sports like recreational tennis/golf with social distancing measures)

Russia, Putin is a very stable leader, kept his country out of covid problems for long time, only got worse when someone got back from holiday but despite that also keeping things more or less under control


my own country, i don't like Van Dissel's approach, i prefer Hugo de Jonge here more from RIVM to give us advice, i like our virologist Ab Osterhaus who also has seen it very clear based upon research on covid, Rutte as PM, hmm he does stay calm in a crisis, yesterday he got mad (ok rightfully mad since people were going out on Streets and stores in masses again which isn't good to slow down the spread)

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

They gave all students in their final year a pass and asked people to come out of retirement I'm not sure what else could have been done

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

quite a lot of governments messed up from the beginning here

but who are doing good jobs now for me personally are: Italy (with added help from Russia and Cuba they made the spread slow down, numbers decrease now) Germany (Merkel is a very stable leader especially worth a mention how she handles this crisis), France (Macron also shows to be quite stable as leader, no nonsense going for safety over economy which is how it should in every country around the world)

Belgium (who even do not have a real government, their interim government handled properly opting quite fast for total lockdown)


Austria, Denmark going quickly for lockdowns, especially denmark who had events without audiences even sooner

Czech Republic, who first in lockdown, now closed their border too (but giving permission for sports like recreational tennis/golf with social distancing measures)

Russia, Putin is a very stable leader, kept his country out of covid problems for long time, only got worse when someone got back from holiday but despite that also keeping things more or less under control


my own country, i don't like Van Dissel's approach, i prefer Hugo de Jonge here more from RIVM to give us advice, i like our virologist Ab Osterhaus who also has seen it very clear based upon research on covid, Rutte as PM, hmm he does stay calm in a crisis, yesterday he got mad (ok rightfully mad since people were going out on Streets and stores in masses again which isn't good to slow down the spread)

Yes Putin has had an excellent pandemic

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Just to be clear I'm on about during the pandemic and not since they have been in charge, because I've never agreed with punishing the NHS to save money

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

quite a lot of governments messed up from the beginning here

but who are doing good jobs now for me personally are: Italy (with added help from Russia and Cuba they made the spread slow down, numbers decrease now) Germany (Merkel is a very stable leader especially worth a mention how she handles this crisis), France (Macron also shows to be quite stable as leader, no nonsense going for safety over economy which is how it should in every country around the world)

Belgium (who even do not have a real government, their interim government handled properly opting quite fast for total lockdown)


Austria, Denmark going quickly for lockdowns, especially denmark who had events without audiences even sooner

Czech Republic, who first in lockdown, now closed their border too (but giving permission for sports like recreational tennis/golf with social distancing measures)

Russia, Putin is a very stable leader, kept his country out of covid problems for long time, only got worse when someone got back from holiday but despite that also keeping things more or less under control


my own country, i don't like Van Dissel's approach, i prefer Hugo de Jonge here more from RIVM to give us advice, i like our virologist Ab Osterhaus who also has seen it very clear based upon research on covid, Rutte as PM, hmm he does stay calm in a crisis, yesterday he got mad (ok rightfully mad since people were going out on Streets and stores in masses again which isn't good to slow down the spread)

The same Russia that is in the same group of China,Iran and NK by hiding the true number to make their countries look better?

[Samm]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

They gave all students in their final year a pass and asked people to come out of retirement I'm not sure what else could have been done

Student nurses aren’t being paid for the work they do however, even if it’s their passion and they enjoy doing it. They should be paid.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Samm

Student nurses aren’t being paid for the work they do however, even if it’s their passion and they enjoy doing it. They should be paid.

I didnt see this bit? I though they walked straight into a paid job but yes I dont agree with not paying them

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

The same Russia that is in the same group of China,Iran and NK by hiding the true number to make their countries look better?

Russia who closed that border with China, (and Mongolia who did so the same also their border closed with China)

''hiding true numbers'' well then none of number statistics are truthful since we all have more deaths than it being shown, but if you do not test enough, or don't give attention to care homes you'll never know immediately how many deaths you actually got

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

Russia who closed that border with China, (and Mongolia who did so the same also their border closed with China)

''hiding true numbers'' well then none of number statistics are truthful since we all have more deaths than it being shown, but if you do not test enough, or don't give attention to care homes you'll never know immediately how many deaths you actually got

It's a known fact some countries are not putting Rona has the cause of death to drive numbers down

[Samm]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

I didnt see this bit? I though they walked straight into a paid job but yes I dont agree with not paying them

They get money from a placement, however it’s not the same as a paid nurse job. Labour MPs are promising a plan to wipe their student debt which I think would be a good gratitude

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

Just to be clear I'm on about during the pandemic and not since they have been in charge, because I've never agreed with punishing the NHS to save money

They have put the patients and staff at risk by taking this route.... can't you see that?

Student nurses have limited clinical experience this is a big ask to forgo a whole year of important education that is designed to prepare them for the role in general, not a pandemic.
Retirees are in the most vulnerable group, it's obvious why they are at risk.

This should never have been suggested, if they weren't spread paper thin initially this 'solution' wouldn't have been see as the only option.

[The Slim Reaper]

[Kizzy]

I don't know how boris will face other world leaders knowing he put our doctors, nurses and care workers in bin bags ...then body bags.