[bananarama]

I think I would describe myself as an agnostic at least in part if that's possible...In part I simply don't know and in part I would say our existance is a result of something else.

Perhaps multiple forces coming together to creat but not able to interfer with the creation after the event.

My question is....If God exists and there are so many confused and interested people wanting to know. Surley if he/she has the power to creat all he/she would also have the power to communicate his/her existance to all of us now in modern times......I wonder why he/she has not done so.....Could it be he/she is just not there!!!!!! Or perhaps he was mortal like his creation is now no longer alive.

The question posed "Who created God" is a fair question just saying God created himself is simply avoiding the question probably because it may shake ones belief.....

[officialleafan]

Originally posted by Sophii3x
Random question..

How could Mary have had baby Jesus when she was a virgin?

It was through the holy spirit. She had Jesus through the holy spirit!

[Sticks]

As is the replies given when we ask why happened before the Big Bang.

[Sarah.]

No one knows, no one ever will, we cannot prove anything. I don't think we will ever be able to. I personally don't believe in God, the bible could even be a story written by somebody back then, like any book today could be seen as real thousands of years ahead of us. I don't see the point in religion and faith and all of that, I believe that we evolved over millions of years, and God did not create Adam and Eve. It's even difficult explaining what I believe too.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by mrs_rko
the bible could even be a story written by somebody back then, like any book today could be seen as real thousands of years ahead of us.

Except archaeological evidence in support of Old an New Testaments has been uncovered verifying it.

If you ever get to visit the British Museum in London, say hi to the black obelisk of Shalmaneser III, which just happens to have a picture of Jehu, king of Israel bringing tribute, a picture we have of an Israelite king mentioned in the Bible.

Next visit the Hittite collection, a people the Bible spoke about, but sceptics decided never existed, until we found their civilisation.

Check out the book Pharaohs and Kings by Dr David Roal, who found an anomaly in Egyptian dating, and as a by product found what could be a statue of Joseph, who became Pharaohs right hand man

Next take a look at the work of Dr William Ramsey, who set out to prove Luke wrong, the Luke who wrote the gospel and Acts. He only ended up being converted because of Luke's accuracy.

They even found the pool which was mentioned in John's gospel where the man lay for 35 years.

Hardly a contender for being a book of fairy tales.

[Psylocke]

I had a drunken argument over this last night.

[m.r.davies]

Originally posted by ttw

Even if I did accept that god, just existed.

There are still a million and one other things that would have me wondering whether he was actually worth worshipping.

You should always question stuff mate, i'm with you on this one!

And those million an one things are worth finding out about, I would focus on the basics for now though if you are genuinely interested.

its good to keep an open mind.... for both sides.

[m.r.davies]

Originally posted by bananarama


My question is....If God exists and there are so many confused and interested people wanting to know. Surley if he/she has the power to creat all he/she would also have the power to communicate his/her existance to all of us now in modern times......I wonder why he/she has not done so.....Could it be he/she is just not there!!!!!! Or perhaps he was mortal like his creation is now no longer alive.

The question posed "Who created God" is a fair question just saying God created himself is simply avoiding the question probably because it may shake ones belief.....

I dont think GOD created himself, GOD just was, see my previous post on this. (the whole time is a creation thing)

as for you other question, I can honestly say that GOD has communicated to me (not in an audible voice).

Loads of mad craaaazy stuff has happened which wont mean anything to you, but it means a heck of a lot to me, and I know for a fact in my heart it was GOD

this famous dude sums it up quite well
"When I pray, coincidences happen, and when I don't they don't."
--William Temple--

[Razmataz]

I don't think there is a god, but I think there is a move that determines everyones move.

So if I move left, someone had to move right, like a chain of cause and effect. Only the chain gets confused when 2 people want to go the same way, they call this Love.

[m.r.davies]

Originally posted by Psylocke
I had a drunken argument over this last night.

Ah yes the old drunken argument

let me guess, neither of you won and you both walked away thinking less of the other person?

[m.r.davies]

Originally posted by Sticks

Except archaeological evidence in support of Old an New Testaments has been uncovered verifying it.

If you ever get to visit the British Museum in London, say hi to the black obelisk of Shalmaneser III, which just happens to have a picture of Jehu, king of Israel bringing tribute, a picture we have of an Israelite king mentioned in the Bible.

Next visit the Hittite collection, a people the Bible spoke about, but sceptics decided never existed, until we found their civilisation.

Check out the book Pharaohs and Kings by Dr David Roal, who found an anomaly in Egyptian dating, and as a by product found what could be a statue of Joseph, who became Pharaohs right hand man

Next take a look at the work of Dr William Ramsey, who set out to prove Luke wrong, the Luke who wrote the gospel and Acts. He only ended up being converted because of Luke's accuracy.

They even found the pool which was mentioned in John's gospel where the man lay for 35 years.

Hardly a contender for being a book of fairy tales.

Ha, wouldn't want to argue with you mate, you seem to know your stuff!

[bananarama]

Originally posted by m.r.davies
In the Bible, we are not told anything about GOD being created
in genesis it says,
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

It also says that outside the earth time doesn't exist (if you know the verse then please state it so people dont think i'm making it up)
anyway, this points to TIME being a creation of GOD

If thats the case, then there is no "who created GOD" because time has been taken out of the equation.

The Problem is, Time surrounds all we know, so our brains cant handle the fact that GOD just existed, not all of you will get this
you have to stop and think about this, then you might understand what i'm getting at.

It's good to see a healthy debate, if you have any serious questions then please ask away

I'm 29 now, at the age of 23 i became a christian,
I could accept the big bang, but couldn't accept the chemicals etc that created the big bang just "existed"
It just made no sense to me, ....neither did GOD at this stage!

I went on an alpha course, (contact your local big lively church) and it gave me chance to get my questions answered in an informal enviroment, i would recommend an alpha course just for the free food

I believe your theory or belief or whatever only makes sense to you because you want it to.....

[bananarama]

Originally posted by m.r.davies

I dont think GOD created himself, GOD just was, see my previous post on this. (the whole time is a creation thing)

as for you other question, I can honestly say that GOD has communicated to me (not in an audible voice).

Loads of mad craaaazy stuff has happened which wont mean anything to you, but it means a heck of a lot to me, and I know for a fact in my heart it was GOD

this famous dude sums it up quite well
"When I pray, coincidences happen, and when I don't they don't."
--William Temple--

God has communicated with you!!!! Oh dear...Thats the problem with religion self delusion is a powerful and possibly quite dangerous force.......

[nodisharmony]

Okay, this is what I think.


(I believe that we create our own heaven & our own hell in life)

I believe in FATE, things are meant to happen for a reason.

I believe that when we die, our memories are wiped clean & our soul will be passed onto another new life.

We all run in that cycle.

on & on & on & on forever.........

I think the bible is just a storybook, but with some very good morals & meanings & so much of what is said, is true. But quite a bit is not.

Do I believe that when we die, that we shall meet Peter or God or anyone else?? Do I believe that bad people will meet the devil & be tortured til the end of time??

The answer is (No) In my opinion.

But for all of us, it's total guesswork....

But just think of how many people have been killed, due to the word "Religion", think about that hard

Then look at my first sentance in my post....Says it all really






nodisharmony

[Sunny_01]

What a wonderful way to put it Nick

I dont believe in God as an instituation, I believe that if there is a god he would want us to worship in the way we choose to live our lives, not by sitting in a church at the same time every week!

[bananarama]

Originally posted by nodisharmony
Okay, this is what I think.


(I believe that we create our own heaven & our own hell in life)

I believe in FATE, things are meant to happen for a reason.

I believe that when we die, our memories are wiped clean & our soul will be passed onto another new life.

We all run in that cycle.

on & on & on & on forever.........

I think the bible is just a storybook, but with some very good morals & meanings & so much of what is said, is true. But quite a bit is not.

Do I believe that when we die, that we shall meet Peter or God or anyone else?? Do I believe that bad people will meet the devil & be tortured til the end of time??

The answer is (No) In my opinion.

But for all of us, it's total guesswork....

But just think of how many people have been killed, due to the word "Religion", think about that hard

Then look at my first sentance in my post....Says it all really






nodisharmony

Excellent post.....That train of though to me makes more sense than the old unverifiable stories....None of us can possibly know the mental state let alone the level of literacy of those who are responsible for bibical writings........

If i had to believe in anything of a supernatural nature I would opt for re-encarnation....That's the only thing that would justify our existance as far as i can see.....

A god that created us all and if you believe in religious cultures wants us to behave according to the rule of god. Then surely an entity capable of creation would be capable of clear and unambiguous communaction with his creation and put them on the right path of life.....That has not happened..Draw ones own conclusions.......

[nodisharmony]

Thankyou both, Sunny, Bananarama for commending my post

It is impossible to know what will happen when we eventually die, but like my post says, "Reincarnation" does sound believable, but our memories would disappear & as we start as babies & end as pensioners, the cycle would continue the same way.

Of, course, some of us are just unlucky & die earlier, for whatever reason.

But in the next life, some may be luckier?

The thought's regarding, "God", well, would any of us meet him one day? I doubt it.....

Our soul's will just move onto another body & start again.

But we all think differently & this is where "religion" sadly goes wrong

Some take it too seriously & actually kill for the sake of it...






nodisharmony

[J.C.]

Originally posted by nodisharmony
Okay, this is what I think.


(I believe that we create our own heaven & our own hell in life)

I believe in FATE, things are meant to happen for a reason.

I believe that when we die, our memories are wiped clean & our soul will be passed onto another new life.

We all run in that cycle.

on & on & on & on forever.........

I think the bible is just a storybook, but with some very good morals & meanings & so much of what is said, is true. But quite a bit is not.

Do I believe that when we die, that we shall meet Peter or God or anyone else?? Do I believe that bad people will meet the devil & be tortured til the end of time??

The answer is (No) In my opinion.

But for all of us, it's total guesswork....

But just think of how many people have been killed, due to the word "Religion", think about that hard

Then look at my first sentance in my post....Says it all really






nodisharmony

How clearly you see things Nick. That really was a great post. Imagine if everyone had this view and how the world would actually be a peaceful place.
The fact that even in this modern age so many deaths are a result of differing religious views is something I find harder to take than almost anything else.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by J.C.

How clearly you see things Nick. That really was a great post. Imagine if everyone had this view and how the world would actually be a peaceful place.
The fact that even in this modern age so many deaths are a result of differing religious views is something I find harder to take than almost anything else.

Thanks J.C.

Some people use religion as a reason to destroy & kill.

How many say, "I did it for religion"





nodisharmony

[m.r.davies]

Originally posted by bananarama

God has communicated with you!!!! Oh dear...Thats the problem with religion self delusion is a powerful and possibly quite dangerous force.......

thanks for the complement
I wouldn't expect you to understand, and i would be saying the same thing if i hadn't experienced it myself, i'm not a freak, or a nasty person, in fact i'm quite a nice person and wouldn't harm anyone, so i'm not sure thats dangerous????

People can spend all day trying to disprove GOD, but its better to try and work out you own belief first, rather than discredit someone else's

unless you just want an argument?


...oh and by the way, i'm not religious, thats a bunch of relics and man made crap setup to control people, lots of it isn't even in the bible!
Its about having a relationship with GOD, not going to church and waving some smelly stuff around

[m.r.davies]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

Thanks J.C.

Some people use religion as a reason to destroy & kill.

How many say, "I did it for religion"


nodisharmony

loads mate, recently its been mostly muslims doing jihads (dont know how you spell it)

However, dont confuse religion with GOD,
religion is rules
GOD would condemn loads of this stuff "done in the name of religion"

[m.r.davies]

Originally posted by nodisharmony
Okay, this is what I think.


(I believe that we create our own heaven & our own hell in life)

I believe in FATE, things are meant to happen for a reason.

I believe that when we die, our memories are wiped clean & our soul will be passed onto another new life.

We all run in that cycle.

on & on & on & on forever.........

I think the bible is just a storybook, but with some very good morals & meanings & so much of what is said, is true. But quite a bit is not.

Do I believe that when we die, that we shall meet Peter or God or anyone else?? Do I believe that bad people will meet the devil & be tortured til the end of time??

The answer is (No) In my opinion.

But for all of us, it's total guesswork....

But just think of how many people have been killed, due to the word "Religion", think about that hard

Then look at my first sentance in my post....Says it all really






nodisharmony

interesting post mate,

one question
if you theory is correct, what would be the meaning of life? and how/why were we created

good to see you thinking about stuff,
I have a lot of respect for people who are exploring
it's easier to ignore it

[J.C.]

Originally posted by m.r.davies

thanks for the complement
I wouldn't expect you to understand, and i would be saying the same thing if i hadn't experienced it myself, i'm not a freak, or a nasty person, in fact i'm quite a nice person and wouldn't harm anyone, so i'm not sure thats dangerous????

People can spend all day trying to disprove GOD, but its better to try and work out you own belief first, rather than discredit someone else's

unless you just want an argument?


...oh and by the way, i'm not religious, thats a bunch of relics and man made c**p setup to control people, lots of it isn't even in the bible!
Its about having a relationship with GOD, not going to church and waving some smelly stuff around

I really don't think anyone is suggesting that you are a freak or a nasty person at all.This is just one of those areas where opinions are very strong. I also believe that the reference to it 'possibly' being dangerous looks more like a generalization.

I'm sure you use your belief in God as a positive experience, and because of that, it frankly doesn't matter at all whether your beliefs are correct or not, but there's no getting away from the fact that these type of beliefs are also used in a very negative way which can easily, and in my opinion correctly, be described as dangerous.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by m.r.davies


interesting post mate,

Thanks

one question
if you theory is correct, what would be the meaning of life? and how/why were we created

I don't think it matters about "Why?" We just exist & get on with our lives. Many do try to work it all out and come to some sort of understanding, but to myself, we just live our lives in the way we choose & that is it.

How we were created, I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess? We are just here & we just exist

good to see you thinking about stuff,
I have a lot of respect for people who are exploring
it's easier to ignore it

I thought about this along time ago & it makes sense to me. Basically, my soul & my mind is in my body & exists. None of us are in two or more bodies are we. So, we know that is something very special. We have a soul inside of us & I just don't believe it ends when we die. I am sure we shall enter another body, somewhere else. Male or Female, who knows? But we go on & on

loads mate, recently its been mostly muslims doing jihads (dont know how you spell it)

However, dont confuse religion with GOD,
religion is rules
GOD would condemn loads of this stuff "done in the name of religion"

[b]God & religion run hand in hand. If someone believes in a particular religion, there will be the word "God", somewhere within the conversation.

They may not say the word "God", they will refer to him with another name.

As there are so many different religions & those that do really live their lives by religion & God can turn it into war & death & mass murder, in the name of their God.

Take "Iran" for instance.

Watch the film:- "Not Without My Daughter" with Sally Field.

That films speaks volumes about how religion rules lives & much, much more...






nodisharmony

[bananarama]

Originally posted by m.r.davies

thanks for the complement
I wouldn't expect you to understand, and i would be saying the same thing if i hadn't experienced it myself, i'm not a freak, or a nasty person, in fact i'm quite a nice person and wouldn't harm anyone, so i'm not sure thats dangerous????

People can spend all day trying to disprove GOD, but its better to try and work out you own belief first, rather than discredit someone else's

unless you just want an argument?


...oh and by the way, i'm not religious, thats a bunch of relics and man made c**p setup to control people, lots of it isn't even in the bible!
Its about having a relationship with GOD, not going to church and waving some smelly stuff around

@ m.r.davies

No I am not looking for an argument. My reference to self delusion being dangerous was general (I would have thought you understood that). Killings/wars are justifiesd by those that think God has spoken to them.

I am in no way suggesting you are dangerous or want to kill. It was not a personal attack in that sense at all. If my message was ambiguous and upset you then I am sorry for that.

Back to the bit that worried me. When someone says they have communicated with god I have to be frank i see that as delusional. It's your right to believe that I know but I find it wishful thinking or delusional. Plus you made the claim without any explanation of how that communication worked.

To say to someone you would not understand is patronising. You can at least try an explanation.......I see your "would not understand" comment as an excuse not to explain because perhaps you can't.......I challenge you to try........Maybe I wont understand but is it not worth a try. How about it.......

Whatever belief gives you comfort in life that's fine. But I have opinions too and as this is a debate forum holding back what I truthfully believe about another persons belief would stifle debate.........

By the way I agree 100% with your last comments about religion and relics etc......You have found Your God and may Your God bless you...