[AnnieK]

How is it the UKs fault Nicky? We have a totally separate contract to the EU. Is it the UKs fault you didn't order vaccine until 3 months later than the the UK? Is it our fault you have only just approved it? Is it our fault you cut your pfizer order to order from the French whose vaccine won't be ready for 12 months? Should UK citizens be penalised for EU failings? Have the UK at any time tried to breach the Brexit agreement to stop the EU from receiving lifesaving vaccines. The answer to all those questions is No.....you need to look a little closer to home when playing the blame game

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

yet you put the blame on the EU

while it is the UK's fault

No I didn't.

I said they were wrong to try to invoke the article they intended to.
Even they have seen it was wrong too, so it was a nonsensical thing to threaten.

Clearly wrong, and so they quickly backtracked and drop it themselves Nicky.

I understand fully and always have, the EU has to act in the best interests of its member Nations.
Not for the Nation that spat it's dummy out and picked it's ball up and ran away.

However, they were wrong, and if I think someone or some organisation, or something is wrong I'll say so.

The EU were first too hasty and then wrong to threaten this action.
Even they've realised that and didn't..
I rest my case on that one.

Even so, I'd still prefer to be IN the EU and still think we will again in the future too hopefully.

[AnnieK]

Sadly, the EUs behaviour over this has only played into the Brexiteers hands.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Sadly, the EUs behaviour over this has only played into the Brexiteers hands.

It has.

Although the impact could be lessened by the rapid dropping of the threat.
Before it was even implemented.

Indeed yes however, the I told you so's will be out in force, despite them staying silent when Johnson tried to put into law a right to overrule agreed agreements.
Which even got Mrs May up in arms.

Yes however, they'll be likely out in force the extreme brexiteers no doubt.
You are correct.

[Nicky91]

both sides are in the wrong

ok i give in, i put water at the wine as the saying goes

but both are too blame, like Joey said it is a ''Global Pandemic'' and the only good option here is to work together for all to get out of this mess, the only reason i am stressed about this, why i want us to profit from those vaccines too is to save lives, and no i'm not selfish since i am not among risk group, my time for vaccination will come a very longer while from now but we need to save the elderly and vulnerable everywhere


also publish the data on AstraZeneca, basically only reason Germany didn't want that one anymore, or the ''ban on that'' since we don't know much about that, as for effectiveness in the 65+ age group

[Cherie]

Nicky answer me this if a vaccine triggers an immune response in a 65 year old why would it not trigger the same in a 66 year old ...?

The EMA have approved for use in all ages so Germany is on its own on this one..

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Nicky answer me this if a vaccine triggers an immune response in a 65 year old why would it not trigger the same in a 66 year old ...?

The EMA have approved for use in all ages so Germany is on its own on this one..

i don't know, we all are different, but hope this AZ works good for all those vaccinated in UK and no serious side effects

not like that Germany doesn't have other vaccines to use, they do

they still got more vaccinations done (loads more) than my flop Netherlands


umm Cherie asking you a question in return, how do vaccines react for elderly who use a lot of other medications, or for pregnant women?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

i don't know, we all are different, but hope this AZ works good for all those vaccinated in UK and no serious side effects

not like that Germany doesn't have other vaccines to use, they do

they still got more vaccinations done (loads more) than my flop Netherlands


umm Cherie asking you a question in return, how do vaccines react for elderly who use a lot of other medications, or for pregnant women?

I don’t think they are approved for pregnant women as yet

I guess they will have more data now on mixing it with other medications

[joeysteele]

The thing is, all the hopes now for all Countries are on the vaccines.

Thankfully there are a few.

However, the long term success of any vaccine is not known, plus as you say Nicky, how will the vaccines interact with those on multiple medications too.

The fact, and I hope it is a fact, that all these vaccines are safe then that can be reassuring.
I'd always advise anyone to take it once offered.
Although I know of people who don't trust it's safety.

Which really we don't know conclusively.
Yes, testing and trials have been carried out.
Testings and trials are usually carried out for years to ensure full and long term safety.
So we still don't know a fair bit re the vaccines or the virus, or how effective the vaccines will be with new strains.

I guess, better being safer than sorry, is the order of the day for people.
The vaccine gives hope, that's what needs to be held onto to.
After a devastating year for multi millions worldwide.
Of lives lost and those left bereaved and those left with lifelong health issues from surviving covid too.

Nicky does raise valid points and sadly as with the virus, the new strains of it plus the vaccines, there are still a good few things not known or certain as to all of that.

[Nicky91]

Pfizer, Moderna can quickly be adapted into doses against the new strains which makes them more interesting


UK got a point of claiming AZ vaccine as they were first, and i guess once all of UK has been vaccinated at least a first time, they could start sending out doses to other countries to receive their first dose too, before halting that to return for UK's second dose procedure, and after that the second doses for those countries you've sent them out too



netherlands RIVM are just stupid, just over 200.000 vaccinations done, while you still got for over 700.000 people doses laying in freezers here

so yes i am also angry at my country, and ashamed of our lacklustre approach


2 more brazilian strain cases here, makes me wonder how does that get here, maybe some businessman who came from there (who don't need commercial travel but private jets)

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The thing is, all the hopes now for all Countries are on the vaccines.

Thankfully there are a few.

However, the long term success of any vaccine is not known, plus as you say Nicky, how will the vaccines interact with those on multiple medications too.

The fact, and I hope it is a fact, that all these vaccines are safe then that can be reassuring.
I'd always advise anyone to take it once offered.
Although I know of people who don't trust it's safety.

Which really we don't know conclusively.
Yes, testing and trials have been carried out.
Testings and trials are usually carried out for years to ensure full and long term safety.
So we still don't know a fair bit re the vaccines or the virus, or how effective the vaccines will be with new strains.

I guess, better being safer than sorry, is the order of the day for people.
The vaccine gives hope, that's what needs to be held onto to.
After a devastating year for multi millions worldwide.
Of lives lost and those left bereaved and those left with lifelong health issues from surviving covid too.

Nicky does raise valid points and sadly as with the virus, the new strains of it plus the vaccines, there are still a good few things not known or certain as to all of that.

...just to add to your words, Joey...I think that the original projection for many Third World countries was 2023/2024 to have the vaccine..?...but UNICEF are really incredibly pushing forward with vaccine purchases as well to bring those times forward as much as possible .....and hopefully the WHO and other organisations will join as well to try to bring First World and Third World closer together with these immunities...

[Nicky91]

France opts for stricter corona measures, not yet a third lockdown

but now

*non-essential travel to countries outside EU is forbidden

*number of people in shopping centres is reduced even further

*and police officers will patrol during the curfew even stricter, and now the curfew goes in at 18:00 PM


first jab vaccination numbers in France: nearly 1.5 million people


they more decided to opt for stricter measures due to british, south african, brazilian new strains

[arista]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Sadly, the EUs behaviour over this has only played into the Brexiteers hands.

And Labour
and all the Northern Ireland Politicians,

[arista]

[joeysteele]

It's certainly helped fire up that really awful Foster woman in Northern Ireland.
No doubt on that.

[Ammi]

WHO urges UK to share vaccinations worldwide once vulnerable have received jabs...


The World Health Organisation is urging the UK to pause its vaccination programme once vulnerable groups have received their jabs to help ensure the global rollout is fair.

WHO spokeswoman Margaret Harris said she wanted to appeal to people in the UK, telling them “you can wait”, because ensuring equitable global distribution is “clearly morally the right thing to do”.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he aims to offer all UK adults a first dose by autumn, but the WHO has said countries should be aiming for “two billion doses” to be “fairly distributed” around the world by the end of 2021.


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/urges-uk-s...092936652.html

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

WHO urges UK to share vaccinations worldwide once vulnerable have received jabs...


The World Health Organisation is urging the UK to pause its vaccination programme once vulnerable groups have received their jabs to help ensure the global rollout is fair.

WHO spokeswoman Margaret Harris said she wanted to appeal to people in the UK, telling them “you can wait”, because ensuring equitable global distribution is “clearly morally the right thing to do”.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he aims to offer all UK adults a first dose by autumn, but the WHO has said countries should be aiming for “two billion doses” to be “fairly distributed” around the world by the end of 2021.


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/urges-uk-s...092936652.html

Oh for goodness sake, why aren’t they asking Israel to pause their under 40s will be vaccinated in the next 3 weeks...or UAE? both countries have vaccinated twice the number UK has?

What about the US ...no?

Edit...Actually they are asking all countries so the title is a bit clickbaity

We’re asking countries, once you’ve got those (high risk and health care worker) groups, please ensure that the supply you’ve got access to is provided for others,” she added.

“While that is morally clearly the right thing to do, it’s also economically the right thing to do.

So expect a pause from UAE and Israel soon then?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Oh for goodness sake, why aren’t they asking Israel to pause their under 40s will be vaccinated in the next 3 weeks...or UAE? both countries have vaccinated twice the number UK has?

What about the US ...no?

Edit...Actually they are asking all countries so the title is a bit clickbaity

We’re asking countries, once you’ve got those (high risk and health care worker) groups, please ensure that the supply you’ve got access to is provided for others,” she added.

“While that is morally clearly the right thing to do, it’s also economically the right thing to do.

So expect a pause from UAE and Israel soon then?

I honestly can't see any nation wanting to do that. They have their citizens and economies to protect. What if we pause and then the rest of the world are slow at the rollout? We risk a 3rd and 4th wave.....

Urgh, this is all going to get very messy very quickly

[Ammi]

...yeah, I was about to say......it’s worldwide compliance of all countries the WHO are hoping for to ensure that each country are able to vaccinate their health workers and vulnerable/high risk etc...which seems the logical and most life preserving thing to do, I would say...

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Ammi

WHO urges UK to share vaccinations worldwide once vulnerable have received jabs...


The World Health Organisation is urging the UK to pause its vaccination programme once vulnerable groups have received their jabs to help ensure the global rollout is fair.

So it's "fair" to expect the young and healthy to sit around, twiddling their thumbs with the grass growing under their feet, waiting for the rest of the world to play catch up?

Here's a better idea: The WHO can keep their stupid ideas to themselves

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I honestly can't see any nation wanting to do that. They have their citizens and economies to protect. What if we pause and then the rest of the world are slow at the rollout? We risk a 3rd and 4th wave.....

Urgh, this is all going to get very messy very quickly

I think it’s a good idea in principal, and vaccine rich countries should be helping those who cannot afford to pre order but asking to pause not sure about that

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah, I was about to say......it’s worldwide compliance of all countries the WHO are hoping hoping for to ensure that each country are able to vaccinate their health workers and vulnerable/high risk etc...which seems the logical and most life preserving thing to do, I would say...

In principal yes, how it will work in theory is another matter

[AnnieK]

As Cherie said in principal its a great idea and I'm sure that most countries will want to help as effectively we are all stuck until a good proportion of the world is vaccinated. However, the first world countries do need to get their economies working again or no country will be able to afford foreign aid any more due to the massive debts every country is accruing every day due to the pandemic. That could cause massive aid issues fir years to come.

[DouglasS]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah, I was about to say......it’s worldwide compliance of all countries the WHO are hoping for to ensure that each country are able to vaccinate their health workers and vulnerable/high risk etc...which seems the logical and most life preserving thing to do, I would say...

I don’t agree.How on earth would it be fair for us and other countries to wait for countries like Australia and New Zealand that are close to zero covid wait for their vulnerable to get vaccinated. They have almost zero covid, that crucial 7 days passing vaccines to covid will probably save zero lives in Australasia (no one is dying..) and probably kill at least 3000 in the U.K. alone.

It shouldn’t be based on just vaccinating the vulnerable across the globe, there are so many more factors. If governments were truly concerned they’d have ordered in bulk. Likewise countries not in lockdown shouldn’t also have extra priorities to get more vaccines because they were late, we are in full lockdown and require the vaccines economically also.


The U.K. has been hit hard and has the greatest death rate in the word, if all countries had the vaccine fairly we’d remain the greatest death rate because we have a large proportion of the more infectious strain and we already have a lot of cases meaning when growing exponentially it’ll remain higher. U.K. needs to look after itself.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

As Cherie said in principal its a great idea and I'm sure that most countries will want to help as effectively we are all stuck until a good proportion of the world is vaccinated. However, the first world countries do need to get their economies working again or no country will be able to afford foreign aid any more due to the massive debts every country is accruing every day due to the pandemic. That could cause massive aid issues fir years to come.

That’s a good point Annie

It’s quite complex as well as some countries might have a low take up...London is behind the rest of the UK in vaccinating over 80s as the Bame communities are not coming forward to be vaccinated in the numbers that white people are

Newham which has been very badly hit by the pandemic has a very low uptake