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Cherie · 07-02-2018, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

who else is masquerading as men on her but are actually ladies?

got you thinking now

Tom4784 · 07-02-2018, 01:24 PM

Right, one last post to mention something I forgot before.

Remember that we'll also remove posts that mention or allude to deleted posts, some posts in that thread were removed because they simply mentioned other deleted posts.

Maru · 07-02-2018, 02:18 PM

Threads being pulled off-topic is an eyesore. It's part of how sections become about the same 6-8 people posting about the same topics time and time again and it makes it very clique-y. It being commonplace on TiBB is what is making it more unwelcome for other folk (not just right-leaning) to post in SD, because they don't want to end up in the same exact arguments all over again.

As long as it is held consistently, then I don't have any issues with that rule and I think it should be strongly enforced. I don't think deletions is necessary though. If it's just a few posts, then a mod can post (bold text and all) a reminder to stay on topic... if it goes sideways, lock the thread or move posts out to a new thread. If it's a real trouble user, then issue a short ban.

If it's a discussion you want to have, then start a new thread. There's no reason you can't link the other thread and start from there. I think that's a pretty fair compromise?

Jack_ · 07-02-2018, 03:15 PM

Oh

she's definitely not as big a loony liberal lefty as me tho

Vicky. · 07-02-2018, 03:23 PM

I actually think I am more centre these days. Which worries me as people do say as you grow up you get more and more right wing. I have shifted from left to close to centre since turning 30

I could never be totally right wing though, I am sure of it. Especially as someone who is actually disabled..I couldn't be all for removing my own bloody rights and seeing myself as a parasite!

I am not sure if I actually have shifted or if its just Corbyn (its fine in this thread, its on topic clearly) that I disagree with. The whole identity politics rubbish seems to be what did it to start with, then it all went downhill from there. I would say I lean more to the left with most issues but I just cannot get behind this oppression olympics thing that seems to be going on. And I disagree with Corbyn on a fair few things, so not sure if its Corbyn I disagree with, or if I really am moving over slowly to 'the other side'

Niamh. · 07-02-2018, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I actually think I am more centre these days. Which worries me as people do say as you grow up you get more and more right wing. I have shifted from left to close to centre since turning 30

I could never be totally right wing though, I am sure of it. Especially as someone who is actually disabled..I couldn't be all for removing my own bloody rights and seeing myself as a parasite!

I am not sure if I actually have shifted or if its just Corbyn (its fine in this thread, its on topic clearly) that I disagree with. The whole identity politics rubbish seems to be what did it to start with, then it all went downhill from there. I would say I lean more to the left with most issues but I just cannot get behind this oppression olympics thing that seems to be going on. And I disagree with Corbyn on a fair few things, so not sure if its Corbyn I disagree with, or if I really am moving over slowly to 'the other side'

I think it's probably the transgender V's Womens rights issues that's probably shifted how you lean a bit more, I'm the same but I've not changed because I've always been more left leaning and also a feminist but before feminism was more "left" now however it seems womens rights a re"right" because transgenders are the new left womens rights cause

Vicky. · 07-02-2018, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think it's probably the transgender V's Womens rights issues that's probably shifted how you lean a bit more, I'm the same but I've not changed because I've always been more left leaning and also a feminist but before feminism was more "left" now however it seems womens rights a re"right" because transgenders are the new left womens rights cause

Yeah thats probably right tbh. I feel I could not vote for labour in their current state, with them refusing to acknowledge that women are even a real ****ing thing and a group that really do require their own rights seperate from male people. I can see how that may colour a lot of my opinions. You are very right that feminism appears to now be a more right leaning thing

Maru · 07-02-2018, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I actually think I am more centre these days. Which worries me as people do say as you grow up you get more and more right wing. I have shifted from left to close to centre since turning 30

I could never be totally right wing though, I am sure of it. Especially as someone who is actually disabled..I couldn't be all for removing my own bloody rights and seeing myself as a parasite!

I am not sure if I actually have shifted or if its just Corbyn (its fine in this thread, its on topic clearly) that I disagree with. The whole identity politics rubbish seems to be what did it to start with, then it all went downhill from there. I would say I lean more to the left with most issues but I just cannot get behind this oppression olympics thing that seems to be going on. And I disagree with Corbyn on a fair few things, so not sure if its Corbyn I disagree with, or if I really am moving over slowly to 'the other side'

Politics is a sport of judgement, so we tend to equate the worst views with left/right aspects. I think many more people are centrist than they are right/left if we were just to judge that definition by it's worst views. Being right-leaning is not a "bad" word... maybe it is different in the UK, but here, it just means you stand for more traditional values, for self-responsibility, for a laws and an economic system that reflects this... but charity is encouraged

I don't know any politician here that has spoke of removing disability. Vicky, I am with you. We have a movement disorder in our family (unknown at the time) and I could never see their care stripped away. I think some welfare is reasonable and actually in society's interest.

Vicky. · 07-02-2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maru

Politics is a sport of judgement, so we tend to equate the worst views with left/right aspects. I think many more people are centrist than they are right/left if we were just to judge that definition by it's worst views. Being right-leaning is not a "bad" word... maybe it is different in the UK, but here, it just means you stand for more traditional values, for self-responsibility, for a laws and an economic system that reflects this... but charity is encouraged

I don't know any politician here that has spoke of removing disability. Vicky, I am with you. We have a movement disorder in our family (unknown at the time) and I could never see their care stripped away. I think some welfare is reasonable and actually in society's interest.

They don't outright say it, that would be political suicide. But they are chopping and chopping away at support for people like me. They changed DLA to PIP in an attempt to, not help the disabled, but cut down how many people were on the benefit. My cousin was on a lifetime DLA award as he has a progressive illness that specialists have said will never ever be cured and it affects his life in a huge way. When being 'transferred' over to PIP, his award was stripped away completely. The 'assessor' was an ex midwife, with no experience in his illness at all and they lied left right and centre ontop of that (this is a common experience for these assessments). He is now having to go through tribunals and stuff to get any award.

With DLA, you got the higher rate if you could not consistently mobilize over 50m. PIP has changed this to 20m. So these people who have had it cut away, they are still as ill as they were, just the government has randomly decided that they do not get the help. That kind of thing.

Honestly, if not for the treatment of the poor and disabled, I could maybe bring myself to vote Tory.

But right now, I am politically homeless for the first time in my life.

I cannot vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge..unless he sorts his **** out
And I cannot vote Tory for personal reasons
Any other vote is a waste, but all other political parties bar UKIP support this ridiculous 'self ID' (changing sex by ticking a box on a piece of paper) thing. I could not vote UKIP as I disagree with them on most matters too

I agree that most people are probably centre. I think people feel like they HAVE to pick a 'side'.

Livia · 07-02-2018, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

They don't outright say it, that would be political suicide. But they are chopping and chopping away at support for people like me. They changed DLA to PIP in an attempt to, not help the disabled, but cut down how many people were on the benefit. My cousin was on a lifetime DLA award as he has a progressive illness that specialists have said will never ever be cured and it affects his life in a huge way. When being 'transferred' over to PIP, his award was stripped away completely. He is now having to go through tribunals ajnd stuff to get any award.

With DLA, you got the higher rate if you could not consistently mobilize over 50m. PIP has changed this to 20m. So these people who have had it cut away, they are still as ill as they were, just the government has randomly decided that they do not get the help. That kind of thing.

Honestly, if not for the treatment of the poor and disabled, I could maybe bring myself to vote Tory.

But right now, I am politically homeless for the first time in my life.

I cannot vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge..unless he sorts his **** out
And I cannot vote Tory for personal reasons
Any other vote is a waste, but all other political parties bar UKIP support this ridiculous 'self ID' (changing sex by ticking a box on a piece of paper) thing. I could not vote UKIP as I disagree with them on most matters too

I agree that most people are probably centre. I think people feel like they HAVE to pick a 'side'.

This sums up how I feel about it all right now. If there was a general election tomorrow I would have to write on the ballot paper, none of the above.

Maru · 07-02-2018, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

They don't outright say it, that would be political suicide. But they are chopping and chopping away at support for people like me. They changed DLA to PIP in an attempt to, not help the disabled, but cut down how many people were on the benefit. My cousin was on a lifetime DLA award as he has a progressive illness that specialists have said will never ever be cured and it affects his life in a huge way. When being 'transferred' over to PIP, his award was stripped away completely. The 'assessor' was an ex midwife, with no experience in his illness at all and they lied left right and centre ontop of that (this is a common experience for these assessments). He is now having to go through tribunals and stuff to get any award.

With DLA, you got the higher rate if you could not consistently mobilize over 50m. PIP has changed this to 20m. So these people who have had it cut away, they are still as ill as they were, just the government has randomly decided that they do not get the help. That kind of thing.

Honestly, if not for the treatment of the poor and disabled, I could maybe bring myself to vote Tory.

But right now, I am politically homeless for the first time in my life.

I cannot vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge..unless he sorts his **** out
And I cannot vote Tory for personal reasons
Any other vote is a waste, but all other political parties bar UKIP support this ridiculous 'self ID' (changing sex by ticking a box on a piece of paper) thing. I could not vote UKIP as I disagree with them on most matters too

I agree that most people are probably centre. I think people feel like they HAVE to pick a 'side'.

That's ridiculous. You are actually screwed no matter which way you go then..

I can't say I can vote right-leaning across the board, as I tend to vote independent, but it is on a candidate versus position kind of deal. Sometimes it's a "no confidence" write-in, but it really depends.

The US does try to get people taken off disability, but it's not really a political platform, it's always been designed that way. It is also difficult to get in. Takes at least a year and a half and fighting almost certain soul draining appeal after appeal to get in. My family had a difficult time due to their disorder not being in the official list. But the US/state came back several years later and retroactively added them out of the blue, so they paid them what they were owed over the course of that time. They were lucky to have family care for them in the meantime, but they've been in since, so nearly 30 years.

We can't have any sort of income over a certain number if we apply. I think it is like $300/gross monthly... but they want you to see doctors so you can provide all sorts of documentation.

That's why a lot of people get lawyers to expedite the process, but not everyone can afford them. They do it to reduce fraud from people applying because they are pregnant, have an ingrown toenail, etc, but it obviously has the effect of creating all kinds of hardship.

The one thing I like about the US being so geographically diverse and separated in powers per state versus federal, is that if we wanted to ignore national, we easily could (and many do). I just focus on local politics/matter, where my vote really counts... whereas national is just a grudge match and we are unwilling participants of that cockery.

Vicky. · 07-02-2018, 03:35 PM

Also having 'the wrong view' I have realised quite how 'the left' behave if you dare to have the wrong opinion on something. Which is a bit scary. This whole thing has really woke me up in so many ways.

Vicky. · 07-02-2018, 03:59 PM

Indeed. All parties seem to be going to ****. I don't get it at all. There have always been little things I disagreed with about each party. But these seem to have morphed into absolutely huge things that I cannot ignore. We need a new sensible party, who are centrist also.

But realistically, even a new party would stand no chance anyway. Its always going to be Tories or Labour. Lib dems were climbing up slowly, but Clegg ****ed that by going back on the one promise that won him the votes in the first place!

Vicky. · 07-02-2018, 04:16 PM

I get what you are saying jet.

Can you explain what exactly you mean by

Quote:

Can a mod make it clear what the future policy on the type of thread like the Ree Moggs one is going to be please?

This though? What kind of thread? Like, an actual discussion thread about his voting record for example?

I think maybe, I might just start deleting threads that are not clear about what they are about and have absolutely no thought gone into them too. So that thread would probably be gone. As would the many many threads that literally just have a link to a news story in them and nothing else. Like, if you want to discuss that news story, discuss it? No need to just make a title and post a link with maybe a little quote of what they story says. Add your own actual opinion to it.

Would people be happy with this btw? As I don't want to be doing it for people to still moan

As as I can see it, if this is done, then it would be fine to delete the random 'but what about Corbyn' 'what about Mogg' or whatever, as obviously your actual opinion would need to be given in reply to the OP, rather than one word/line (sometimes snipey) posts.

Basically, how would people feel about serious debates actually being serious debates again. With one word/one line stuff pretty much gone completely and discussion threads actually being discussion threads rather than snipey rubbish?

I may make a thread about this, as many will be avoiding this thread as they think that its yet another Corbyn argument going on

Maru · 07-02-2018, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I get what you are saying jet.

Can you explain what exactly you mean by

This though? What kind of thread? Like, an actual discussion thread about his voting record for example?

I think maybe, I might just start deleting threads that are not clear about what they are about and have absolutely no thought gone into them too. So that thread would probably be gone. As would the many many threads that literally just have a link to a news story in them and nothing else. Like, if you want to discuss that news story, discuss it? No need to just make a title and post a link with maybe a little quote of what they story says. Add your own actual opinion to it.

You mean like my threads?

I usually post articles, but can't say I always agree with them. It's just a discussion starter and usually the articles are better worded than anything I could write. The other reason I think many people don't post too many OP essays in SD is because over half the time they turn into straw mans and character attacks anyway... so some ppl may not bother.

I think deleting ambiguous threads is fine given those are usually bait threads anyway... though a lock I think is better than deleting as long as it's not particularly offensive material.

Vicky. · 07-02-2018, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maru

You mean like my threads?

I usually post articles, but can't say I always agree with them. It's just a discussion starter and usually the articles are better worded than anything I could write. The other reason I think many people don't post too many OP essays in SD is because over half the time they turn into straw mans and character attacks anyway... so some ppl may not bother.

I think deleting ambiguous threads is fine given those are usually bait threads anyway... though a lock I think is better than deleting as long as it's not particularly offensive material.

It does not need to be an essay. I cant say I have ever notice your thread being nothing but a link? I think you always actually add something to the OP? Maybe not

I know sometimes its a discussion starter, but even a starter should have something besides...'discuss' surely? Whoever is making the thread MUST have an opinion on it one way or the other? IDK..I know anything I make threads about, I always have an opinion on and want to discuss that. Maybe others are different. have made a poll anyway about all of this, where hopefully I will get a lot of opinions

Maru · 07-02-2018, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It does not need to be an essay. I cant say I have ever notice your thread being nothing but a link? I think you always actually add something to the OP? Maybe not

It depends, sometimes it's just because of the {& News} filter portion of the sub... like making others aware of something that they didn't know about before, etc

Quote:

I know sometimes its a discussion starter, but even a starter should have something besides...'discuss' surely? Whoever is making the thread MUST have an opinion on it one way or the other? IDK..I know anything I make threads about, I always have an opinion on and want to discuss that. Maybe others are different. have made a poll anyway about all of this, where hopefully I will get a lot of opinions

I understand what you're saying. If a rule is put forth, I think I can manage a simple post

jaxie · 07-02-2018, 04:39 PM

Re Vicky, Maru and Livia's conversation. My dad was a union man before his disablement and I grew up on a staunch socialist household. I have voted Labour in the past but was turned off them at different times by the loony left of the past, the behaviour of Tony Blair and the rise of Corbyn. For a number of years I was Lib Dem until they sold out the students and I don't like their stance over Brexit. I'd never vote for them again I don't think. I am left with no one really to vote for. I'm centreish politically and I don't think the right is all bad. What I definitely don't support is violence against particular MPs whoever they are.

Re Vicky's suggestion about deleting threads like that Mogg one I'd support that though I do sometimes just post an article with a sentence or two on something I find interesting to give others a chance to read it so it sounds like most threads I start would be gone!

BTW what happened to the zebras thread!

What Jet said for me too really. Our complaint/discussion was about that particular Mogg thread and our posts in it.

Vicky. · 07-02-2018, 04:43 PM

Zebra thread is in general chat

OK jaxie have just had a look through your most recent started threads in this section and those are all fine from what I can see, as you do not just post the link and 'discuss' or just the link, you do actually say what you think about it. I don't mean everyone needs to do essays when starting threads, even though thats usually my style