[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by kitten59

Why did they even let this ignoramus on the show? Besides being not too bright, he's a crashing BORE.

No he isn't - he has far more to offer than the likes of Courtney.

[kitten59]

No he isn't - he has far more to offer than the likes of Courtney.

You must love comatose housemates.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Lewarse

I think Ron Atikinson knows the N word is unacceptable too, the guy used it in an off the cuff remark without thinking. It doesn't make it right but as others have already said, we all say s**t we don't necessarily mean and live to regret it.

Do you think your Dad didn't ever utter that word or any other racial remarks in his last 20 years of his life? Even though he knew it was unacceptable? Doesn't necessarily mean he hates black people, it was prevalent in that generation. As easy as you make it sound, one of the hardest things to do in life is change.

Excellent, thought inspiring post. Well said.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by kitten59

You must love comatose housemates.

No, but I would prefer even them to that boring, predictable individual who thinks she is a modern woman. She reminds me of one of those blow up dolls people can purchase online. Revolting woman.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Looks like the comment got removed but it's nice to see the white heterosexual population of England are once again copping the blame for society's ills on this forum.

As I said - manipulative.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by LANDROVER

I believe this racism sensitivity is is becoming farcical. The same thing applies to religion. I have friends who are black and behind closed doors we call each other all sorts of names and have a good laugh in doing so. Every other wrap song sung by black people refer to each other as n....rs, but its taboo to say this word if youre not of the same race.
Why can you refer to an Australian as an aussie but you cant refer to a Pakistani as a p..i.
Im british you can call me a brit. The worlds gone mad.

Welcome to PC gone mad Britain

Originally Posted by LANDROVER

I believe this racism sensitivity is is becoming farcical. The same thing applies to religion. I have friends who are black and behind closed doors we call each other all sorts of names and have a good laugh in doing so. Every other wrap song sung by black people refer to each other as n....rs, but its taboo to say this word if youre not of the same race.
Why can you refer to an Australian as an aussie but you cant refer to a Pakistani as a p..i.
Im british you can call me a brit. The worlds gone mad.

White people have absolutely no business using that word. It's what we used when we were slave masters. If black people wish to use it, then that is their business, but we really have no right using it because of the history of oppression it is associated with.

There are lots of people that share your views. But for me, when you say you and your black friends call each other all kinds of names, and aren't you modern and past race, it doesn't really say that to me, it says rather than dealing with it, and being sensitive to the history we share, we're just going to pretend it didn't happen. Even recent history, people used to refer to black bastards, darkies, chalky on TV for a Saturday nights entertainment.

We don't get to say "sorry about all that slavery stuff, and then the decades of names and abuse we gave you after you fought for us in WWII, but you really need to get past it now, because we're going to start being nicer. You still will be persecuted by the police and stereotyped by employers, but hey, I don't call you the c**n who lives next door anymore, so you need to grow up"

Thankfully, these attitudes will die out eventually.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

White people have absolutely no business using that word. It's what we used when we were slave masters. If black people wish to use it, then that is their business, but we really have no right using it because of the history of oppression it is associated with.

There are lots of people that share your views. But for me, when you say you and your black friends call each other all kinds of names, and aren't you modern and past race, it doesn't really say that to me, it says rather than dealing with it, and being sensitive to the history we share, we're just going to pretend it didn't happen. Even recent history, people used to refer to black bastards, darkies, chalky on TV for a Saturday nights entertainment.

We don't get to say "sorry about all that slavery stuff, and then the decades of names and abuse we gave you after you fought for us in WWII, but you really need to get past it now, because we're going to start being nicer. You still will be persecuted by the police and stereotyped by employers, but hey, I don't call you the c**n who lives next door anymore, so you need to grow up"

Thankfully, these attitudes will die out eventually.

No you can't have one rule for one and one for another. If white people get pulled up for the N word (rightly so in my opinion) black people should get pulled up too all you end up doing is creating resentment within the white populace.

[CaudleHalbard]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

No you can't have one rule for one and one for another. If white people get pulled up for the N word (rightly so in my opinion) black people should get pulled up too all you end up doing is creating resentment within the white populace.

Quite agree. Applying different standards according to a person's race is, in itself, racism.

[Kyle]

The same thing happens with sectarianism in sport too.

Calling somebody a yid is considered offensive (ok fair enough) but Tottenham Hotspurs who are a club with strong Jewish roots sing 'yid army' without reprisal.

Calling somebody a Fenian is considered offensive in Scotland (again fair enough) but Celtic who have a strong link with Irish Republicanism and Catholicism sing 'Fenian army' after somebody's name.

[smudgie]

I think it is terrible that rappers use the word.
Young impressionable kids buy them, including white ones who end up with a clip around the ear for repeating it.

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

No you can't have one rule for one and one for another. If white people get pulled up for the N word (rightly so in my opinion) black people should get pulled up too all you end up doing is creating resentment within the white populace.

Then you really don't understand the history behind the word. Why should white people give a s**t if black people use it? It's like we can't get past that privileged status, even now.

Well they can do it, so why can't we?

Black people have the right to claim that word, because of the way it was used against them for centuries. We don't.

It really is simple.

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Quite agree. Applying different standards according to a person's race is, in itself, racism.

This spectacularly misses the point of that word. What's racist about it?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

No you can't have one rule for one and one for another. If white people get pulled up for the N word (rightly so in my opinion) black people should get pulled up too all you end up doing is creating resentment within the white populace.

Agree 100% ...and there needs to be more spotlight on black on white racism too

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Then you really don't understand the history behind the word. Why should white people give a s**t if black people use it? It's like we can't get past that privileged status, even now.

Well they can do it, so why can't we?

Black people have the right to claim that word, because of the way it was used against them for centuries. We don't.

It really is simple.

Nah not buying that.


I have enslaved nobody, the black people who go around saying it are not slaves any longer. I will not stand to suffer for misdemeanours of the past.


Call me privileged and self entitled all you want or deride my understanding of colonial history it doesn't bother me.

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Nah not buying that.


I have enslaved nobody, the black people who go around saying it are not slaves any longer. I will not stand to suffer for misdemeanours of the past.


Call me privileged and self entitled all you want or deride my understanding of colonial history it doesn't bother me.

Ignorance is bliss.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

White people have absolutely no business using that word. It's what we used when we were slave masters. If black people wish to use it, then that is their business, but we really have no right using it because of the history of oppression it is associated with.

There are lots of people that share your views. But for me, when you say you and your black friends call each other all kinds of names, and aren't you modern and past race, it doesn't really say that to me, it says rather than dealing with it, and being sensitive to the history we share, we're just going to pretend it didn't happen. Even recent history, people used to refer to black bastards, darkies, chalky on TV for a Saturday nights entertainment.

We don't get to say "sorry about all that slavery stuff, and then the decades of names and abuse we gave you after you fought for us in WWII, but you really need to get past it now, because we're going to start being nicer. You still will be persecuted by the police and stereotyped by employers, but hey, I don't call you the c**n who lives next door anymore, so you need to grow up"

Thankfully, these attitudes will die out eventually.

Well said.

Whatever Ron's actual views on race, the term he used was culturally loaded.

Maybe in the culture he was a part of, that kind of term was commonplace. Maybe compared to many in his world he was not racist. Maybe in the context of such a world he was actively anti-racist (through his actions). But he participated in creating a culture with racism embedded in it, even as he participated in breaking down race barriers in that world.

In many workplaces it is still pretty common for minorities to be talked about in such a way. And it is just 'banter'. But that banter has a dark underbelly. Our words do not leave our mouth into an unmade world. They carry cultural legacies.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Ignorance is bliss.

Oh look who is having another swipe. I'm ignorant too now?

Thanks god we have a pseudo intellectual like you here to educate us poor buffoons on how we are oppressing people.

I think I might become a Catholic, they are good at making people feel guilty for something that happened in the past.

[camertone]

he is racist.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Oh look who is having another swipe. I'm ignorant too now?

Thanks god we have a pseudo intellectual like you here to educate us poor buffoons on how we are oppressing people.

I think I might become a Catholic, they are good at making people feel guilty for something that happened in the past.

There are many types of oppression and attempting to hold future generations to account for the past is oppression.

Meanwhile many of those angered by remarks they consider racist continue to go on their merry way making sexist remarks at will. I have no time for such hypocrites.

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Oh look who is having another swipe. I'm ignorant too now?

Thanks god we have a pseudo intellectual like you here to educate us poor buffoons on how we are oppressing people.

I think I might become a Catholic, they are good at making people feel guilty for something that happened in the past.

Ignorance isn't really having a swipe. I'm ignorant of lots of things. It just means a lack of knowledge.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Ignorance isn't really having a swipe. I'm ignorant of lots of things. It just means a lack of knowledge.

There are very few people who have in depth knowledge of the extent of the slave trade and how it affected each race.

The majority of us just apply what is happening around us but you can't write us off as unworthy of an opinion because you deem us ignorant.


Slavery doesn't just extend to whites on black though they cant have a monopoly on that debacle. The Barbary Pirates of North Africa used to stalk the Mediterranean for slaves and the Egyptians made extensive use of forced labour. Some South American cultures also took war prisoners and used them as slaves too..

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

There are very few people who have in depth knowledge of the extent of the slave trade and how it affected each race.

The majority of us just apply what is happening around us but you can't write us off as unworthy of an opinion because you deem us ignorant.


Slavery doesn't just extend to whites on black though they cant have a monopoly on that debacle. The Barbary Pirates of North Africa used to stalk the Mediterranean for slaves and the Egyptians made extensive use of forced labour. Some South American cultures also took war prisoners and used them as slaves too..

Well said. I believe alleged racism is often used as a stick to beats the white with and smacks of its own brand of bigotry and racism.

[Roy Mars III]

In 50 years the 'n word' (with an A) will not carry the same weight. It will not mean what it used to mean, and will instead mean 'friend/homie/etc. You can already see it lessening due to music and pop culture. You go to Hip Hop shows (which usually have around a 80% white audience) and you hear everyone throwing it around

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

There are very few people who have in depth knowledge of the extent of the slave trade and how it affected each race.

The majority of us just apply what is happening around us but you can't write us off as unworthy of an opinion because you deem us ignorant.


Slavery doesn't just extend to whites on black though they cant have a monopoly on that debacle. The Barbary Pirates of North Africa used to stalk the Mediterranean for slaves and the Egyptians made extensive use of forced labour. Some South American cultures also took war prisoners and used them as slaves too..

I have a fairly good knowledge of the 17th and 18th century century slave trade. I also have a fairly good knowledge of 17th -19th century colonialism.

Slavery has been a part of the human story for a long time. It hasn't just been something that white Europeans did to black Africans. But: the mass enslavement that occurred during the 17th to early 19th century was different to what went on at other times and in the other places you mention.

Simply put: the notion of a 'slave race' is fairly uncommon in history. There are examples of it in the ancient world, but most of the slave owning cultures did not own slaves according to their race, but according to their social status. (there are one or two examples of it inthe modern world as well: specifically the Tuareg and the slave race they consider their property) In the slave owning culture of America's ante-bellum South, laws were in place which effectively categorised black Africans as inherently 'slave'. A black person could be a freed slave, of course...though during some periods laws were passed to prevent the freeing of slaves, because it was feared that a) those freed slaves might act violently towards their former masters and b) it would make it difficult to identify a run away slave.

This did not happen in the distant past. There are people now living in America whose great grandparents were born into slavery. This a very recent cultural legacy.

Even more recently, in living memory, there were laws in America segregating black and white lives and rights. The Jim Crow laws were founded on assumptions and fears born of the earlier slave owning culture.

The holocaust in Germany still carries a deep and abiding legacy in western culture. Yet that was further back in our collective past than the Jim Crow laws that denied black people basic equality in law.

The colonial legacy of India, likewise is still in living memory. My dad was born to the Raj. He was raised with Indian servants (who my grandfather used to beat when they disobeyed him).

We are all affected by the culture our parents were raised in, and they were affected by the culture their parents were raised in. I grew up with the stories my parents and grandparents told of their worlds. As did you, and as did the children and grandchildren of people for whom the colour of their skin was the ultimate marker on which they were judged.