[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jet

Their connections to extremists are in no way comparable at all. If you were well educated on these issues you would know that. It's not that long ago that we were engaged in a discussion on Martin McGuiness and you were defending him all over the show.
If you are worried about the DUP having extremist connections, then why on earth do you idolise Corbyn? THAT is just undiluted hypocrisy.

I couldn't agree more Jet. I don't think it is about a terrorist - but what terrorist.

[jet]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Yep, as i thought, the Right-wingers who clung to the BS ''Terrorist Sympatizer'' thing like a life-jacket on The Titanic have no real justification of the Tories being that desperate to get into bed with a neo-fascist hate Party who supported terrorists and unappologetically employ Armed Robber thugs.

I obviously missed the small-print that explained why the Tories shouldn't have to be held accountable for their behaviour and standards ofdecency like Labour and Corbyn constantly are (even if that means misconstruing/misreprersenting facts).

You clearly need to do a lot of research.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by jet

You clearly need to do a lot of research.

As do you..............clearly.

But it's much easier and less time consuming to entirely rebuff rather than make actual points about actual things you deem incorrect or false isn't it.

[jet]

Originally Posted by JTM45

As do you..............clearly.

But it's much easier and less time consuming to entirely rebuff rather than make actual points about actual things you deem incorrect or false isn't it.

I've made plenty of points in the last few days, I'm all pointed out. My posts are available to search if you wish.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by jet

I've made plenty of points in the last few days, I'm all pointed out.

Theresa.............is that you ?

That 'article' is the kind of thing i'd expect Brillo to trot out as irrefutable evidence (rather than the blatantly biased and fact-light coddswallop it actually is). What's that ? Oh....she did ? I was not aware of that.

[user104658]

Starting to wonder if Tory supporters actually understand that others are celebrating the massive losses and the hilarious back-firing of the party's arrogance... it's not that anyone doesn't realise that the Tories are still in power

"People are liek ha ha Tories BUT dey will not be able to 4 long bcus luk Theresa May is still PM so ha ha ha we won we won!"


No. The Tories made a gamble - that calling an election would increase their majority and give them a more solid grip on power - and after that gamble, they had fewer MPs, lost their majority completely, and thus have less power.

Take other parties and who is still PM out of the equation; look at it as a standalone action.

- The Tories had a slim majority.
- They believed that their support was growing exponentially and they were essentially unchallenged.
- They believed that opposition was at an all time low
- So they called an election, gambling on what they thought was a sure thing; an increased majority.
- They lost seats
- They no longer have a majority
- They have less than what they had before the gamble

There's not really any two ways about it. Regardless of whether or not Labour "won" in any way - the Tories lost. They lost against themselves... they lost their own gamble. How can anyone possibly argue that this isn't true?

[Jack_]

In other news:

John Major: Tory-DUP deal risks jeopardising Northern Ireland peace

Former PM warns Theresa May against seeking alliance with unionist party as its leader says negotiations going well

Theresa May has been warned by Sir John Major that striking a deal with the Democratic Unionist party could put the “fragile peace” in Northern Ireland at risk.

The former Conservative prime minister said a deal with Arlene Foster’s party could risk alienating armed republicans and loyalists, and cause resentment in other parts of the UK if the government made promises to spend large amounts of public money.

The intervention by Major, who also called for a more collegiate approach to Brexit, came as May held talks with Foster. It will be seen as deeply unsettling for the prime minister.

On Tuesday afternoon, Foster indicated a deal to support the Conservative minority government was close to being finalised.

She also gave a glimpse into the issues upon the table, saying Brexit, counter-terrorism and “doing what’s right” for the Northern Ireland economy were among the key issues being thrashed out.

Discussions in Westminster continued without May after she left for Paris for a meeting with the French president, Emmanuel Macron.

Major told BBC Radio 4’s the World at One that he felt May should try to run a minority government rather than seek the planned loose alliance with the DUP.

“I am concerned about the deal, I am wary about it, I am dubious about it, both for peace process reasons but also for other reasons as well,” he said, warning that if peace unravelled, Northern Ireland’s “hard men” could return to violence.

Major, who as prime minister was central to the start of the peace process in the 1990s, said an alliance with the DUP would jeopardise the UK government’s crucial role as an “honest broker” in Northern Ireland where power-sharing talks remain unresolved.

“People shouldn’t regard it as a given,” he said of peace in Northern Ireland. “It isn’t certain, it is under stress. It is fragile. And although I don’t expect it suddenly to collapse – because there is a broad consensus that wishes it to continue – I think we have to take care with it, and take care that everything we do does not exaggerate the underlying differences that still are there in the Northern Ireland community.”

Saying he supported May and could understand why she sought the DUP deal, Major argued it was a mistake.

“A fundamental part of that peace process is that the UK government needs to be impartial between all the competing interests in Northern Ireland,” he said. “The danger is that however much any government tries, they will not be seen to be impartial if they are locked into a parliamentary deal, at Westminster, with one of the Northern Ireland parties.

“The last thing anybody wishes to see is one or other of the communities so aggrieved that the hard men, who are still there lurking in the corners of the community, decide that they wish to return to some form of violence.”

Major also warned against the “baggage” of a deal, not least the DUP seeking extra funding for Northern Ireland, and the potential resentment this could cause among voters in other parts of the UK.

“That is going to cause a great degree of grievance elsewhere,” he warned. “They would see it as the government paying cash for votes in parliament, and in doing so I think that could well cost votes in the country for the Conservative party, by the bucketload, at a subsequent election.”

Major said he was aware there was no appetite for another general election, and suggested May could seek to govern as a minority, noting that her opponents would only have “a tiny majority in the event that everybody lined up against her”.

The talks followed the first meeting of May’s slightly reshuffled cabinet since the election in which she lost her majority.

Foster, alongside MPs Jeffrey Donaldson and Nigel Dodds, has led negotiations for the DUP, while chief whip Gavin Williamson has led for the Tories.

A failure to gain support from the Northern Irish party would risk the Queen’s speech being voted down next week.

Sinn Féin has warned such moves undermine power-sharing talks in Northern Ireland.

Lord Trimble, the former Ulster Unionist first minister of Northern Ireland from 1998 to 2002, said the DUP were also putting their political future at risk by striking a deal because they could be blamed for unpopular Tory policies.

However, he denies Major’s claims that the Good Friday agreement was at risk, saying: “I think there is a fair amount of scaremongering going on.”

In the Commons, Jeremy Corbyn turned May’s election slogan against her, saying that any deal with the DUP would be a “coalition of chaos”.

A Downing Street spokeswoman said ministers “discussed the ongoing talks with the DUP to secure a confidence and supply arrangement”.

The Guardian

Incidentally Major also warned last year about the NHS being unsafe in Johnson, Gove and Duncan Smith's hands. Is he one of only a few Tories with a conscience?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jack_

In other news:



The Guardian

Incidentally Major also warned last year about the NHS being unsafe in Johnson, Gove and Duncan Smith's hands. Is he one of only a few Tories with a conscience?

Here we go!

Are the DUP and Sinn Fein political parties or not. If those in their wisdom decided that those involved or in support of previous terrorist acts could form a political party as part of the peace process then why would they be treated differently to any other political party in this situation and would such discrimination not be an abuse of that agreement. Were they just being placated then?

Should any issues of potential impartiality in a government alliance not have been thought about and addressed at that time. It seems pretty obvious really. People can't then turn around and scream that such an alliance would affect the peace process after the horse has bolted so to speak. May cannot and should not be penalised for the mistakes of others.

It isn't May's fault if those involved in the Good Friday Agreement were incompetent and didn't think ahead. This is an issue that should have come to light decades ago - pretty convenient that it is suddenly an issue now that a desperate and biligerent Labour and remainers are out to get May.

It all stinks and such blatant desperate hounding should not be pandered to.

[jet]

Tory-DUP deal announcement put on hold due to London blaze.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-london-blaze

Sources suggest it would be inappropriate to make formal announcement because of unfolding tragedy at Grenfell Tower


A deal between the government and the Democratic Unionist party will be delayed because of the calamitous fire that has engulfed a tower block in west London.

Westminster sources have suggested it would be inappropriate to make a formal announcement because of the unfolding tragedy at Grenfell Tower.

Theresa May needs the votes of the 10 DUP MPs to prop up her minority administration as she hopes to steer government business – including crucial measures on Brexit – through the Commons.

Reports suggested that the Queen’s speech and Brexit negotiations could be delayed as a result. However, sources close to the talks said that while the discussions were “stuttering”, 95% had been agreed between both sides, meaning the deal could still be announced in time to allow the Queens’s speech on Monday.

Both sides had hoped that a deal would be announced on Wednesday. The DUP’s leader, Arlene Foster, and MPs Nigel Dodds and Jeffrey Donaldson, have been locked in talks in Westminster for two days with senior Tories including the chief whip, Gavin Williamson.

Meanwhile, Downing Street has announced that representatives from all five of Northern Ireland’s main parties have been invited to meet the prime minister on Thursday. A source said: “The focus will be on restoring devolved government to Northern Ireland as soon as possible.”

The former prime minister Sir John Major has suggested it will be difficult for the government to act as an honest broker in talks to restore the power-sharing agreement in Belfast if it enters into a deal with the DUP to prop up a Conservative minority government in Westminster.

On Tuesday afternoon, Foster indicated that a deal was close to being finalised.

She also gave a glimpse into the issues on the table, saying Brexit, counter-terrorism, and “doing what’s right” for the Northern Ireland economy were among the key issues being thrashed out.

A senior Conservative source said: “We are making a lot of progress, it’s all being done in the spirit of cooperation, with a real focus on strengthening the union and providing stability at this time.”

A Conservative source said there was so far no deal to announce and that a decision on the timing of any announcement would have to wait until an agreement was finalised.

Ministers have indicated that the Queen’s speech may have to be set back from its scheduled date of next Monday 19 June because of the ongoing negotiations.

May is coming under intense pressure to change her approach to leaving the European Union, with predecessors David Cameron and Sir John Major among those suggesting a softer stance with a greater effort to seek a consensus.

The chancellor, Philip Hammond, is preparing to fight for the UK to remain within the EU’s customs union which could safeguard jobs and trade with EU members but would severely restrict the UK’s ability to strike its own trade deals around the world.

At a joint press conference with May in Paris on Tuesday night, the French president, Emmanuel Macron, suggested that the door was still open for the UK to remain in the EU.

“Until the negotiations come to an end, of course there is always the possibility to reopen the door,” said the French president. “But let us be clear and organised and once the negotiations have started we should be well aware that it’ll be more difficult to move backwards.”

The DUP was seeking to make the new government’s policies “more compassionate” across the UK, party sources said. They said the DUP was attempting to dilute austerity measures and defend things like the triple lock on pensions.

The DUP wanted to secure a deal that not only could benefit Northern Ireland but also people in England, Scotland and Wales, they said.

Among the Northern Ireland-specific issues raised by the DUP was a special corporation tax status for the region, possibly at a 12.5% rate.

This is similar to the Irish Republic’s tax regime, which has successfully attracted foreign direct investment to Ireland. The DUP has described the 12.5% rate as a “gamechanger” for Northern Ireland.

The last government insisted that if Northern Ireland was awarded a lower corporation tax the price would be reductions in the UK Treasury’s block grant of billions into the local economy. The sources said the DUP was asking that this Treasury condition be erased as part of the deal.

The message coming out of the DUP on Wednesday appeared to be addressing two audiences. The first was the wider UK population, with the prospect that the DUP could help soften the blows of austerity across the union.

The second appeared to address the other Northern Irish parties, but most importantly Sinn Féin, 24 hours before roundtable party talks resume in Belfast aimed at restoring a devolved government.

The DUP is arguing and will argue during the Belfast discussions that the national deal with May and the Tories will bring dividends to Northern Ireland, which a restored power-sharing executive can distribute and manage from Belfast.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by jet

Tory-DUP deal announcement put on hold due to London blaze.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-london-blaze

Sources suggest it would be inappropriate to make formal announcement because of unfolding tragedy at Grenfell Tower


A deal between the government and the Democratic Unionist party will be delayed because of the calamitous fire that has engulfed a tower block in west London.

Westminster sources have suggested it would be inappropriate to make a formal announcement because of the unfolding tragedy at Grenfell Tower.

Theresa May needs the votes of the 10 DUP MPs to prop up her minority administration as she hopes to steer government business – including crucial measures on Brexit – through the Commons.

Reports suggested that the Queen’s speech and Brexit negotiations could be delayed as a result. However, sources close to the talks said that while the discussions were “stuttering”, 95% had been agreed between both sides, meaning the deal could still be announced in time to allow the Queens’s speech on Monday.

Both sides had hoped that a deal would be announced on Wednesday. The DUP’s leader, Arlene Foster, and MPs Nigel Dodds and Jeffrey Donaldson, have been locked in talks in Westminster for two days with senior Tories including the chief whip, Gavin Williamson.

Meanwhile, Downing Street has announced that representatives from all five of Northern Ireland’s main parties have been invited to meet the prime minister on Thursday. A source said: “The focus will be on restoring devolved government to Northern Ireland as soon as possible.”

The former prime minister Sir John Major has suggested it will be difficult for the government to act as an honest broker in talks to restore the power-sharing agreement in Belfast if it enters into a deal with the DUP to prop up a Conservative minority government in Westminster.

On Tuesday afternoon, Foster indicated that a deal was close to being finalised.

She also gave a glimpse into the issues on the table, saying Brexit, counter-terrorism, and “doing what’s right” for the Northern Ireland economy were among the key issues being thrashed out.

A senior Conservative source said: “We are making a lot of progress, it’s all being done in the spirit of cooperation, with a real focus on strengthening the union and providing stability at this time.”

A Conservative source said there was so far no deal to announce and that a decision on the timing of any announcement would have to wait until an agreement was finalised.

Ministers have indicated that the Queen’s speech may have to be set back from its scheduled date of next Monday 19 June because of the ongoing negotiations.

May is coming under intense pressure to change her approach to leaving the European Union, with predecessors David Cameron and Sir John Major among those suggesting a softer stance with a greater effort to seek a consensus.

The chancellor, Philip Hammond, is preparing to fight for the UK to remain within the EU’s customs union which could safeguard jobs and trade with EU members but would severely restrict the UK’s ability to strike its own trade deals around the world.

At a joint press conference with May in Paris on Tuesday night, the French president, Emmanuel Macron, suggested that the door was still open for the UK to remain in the EU.

“Until the negotiations come to an end, of course there is always the possibility to reopen the door,” said the French president. “But let us be clear and organised and once the negotiations have started we should be well aware that it’ll be more difficult to move backwards.”

The DUP was seeking to make the new government’s policies “more compassionate” across the UK, party sources said. They said the DUP was attempting to dilute austerity measures and defend things like the triple lock on pensions.

The DUP wanted to secure a deal that not only could benefit Northern Ireland but also people in England, Scotland and Wales, they said.

Among the Northern Ireland-specific issues raised by the DUP was a special corporation tax status for the region, possibly at a 12.5% rate.

This is similar to the Irish Republic’s tax regime, which has successfully attracted foreign direct investment to Ireland. The DUP has described the 12.5% rate as a “gamechanger” for Northern Ireland.

The last government insisted that if Northern Ireland was awarded a lower corporation tax the price would be reductions in the UK Treasury’s block grant of billions into the local economy. The sources said the DUP was asking that this Treasury condition be erased as part of the deal.

The message coming out of the DUP on Wednesday appeared to be addressing two audiences. The first was the wider UK population, with the prospect that the DUP could help soften the blows of austerity across the union.

The second appeared to address the other Northern Irish parties, but most importantly Sinn Féin, 24 hours before roundtable party talks resume in Belfast aimed at restoring a devolved government.

The DUP is arguing and will argue during the Belfast discussions that the national deal with May and the Tories will bring dividends to Northern Ireland, which a restored power-sharing executive can distribute and manage from Belfast.

Looks pretty reasonable to me.
I do however think we could look towards bringing the corporation tax down to the same level as well. Give everyone a fair crack at the whip.

[Kizzy]

Wow this govt is on form it's ruined the UK the EU and now peace in Northern Ireland... well done!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7792171.html

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Wow this govt is on form it's ruined the UK the EU and now peace in Northern Ireland... well done!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7792171.html

No those that drafted up the peace agreement ruined the peace agreement by not seeing future problems if either the DUP or Sinn Fein were to form an alliance with Government.

This should have been dealt with decades ago. It is now simply being used by Corbynites to play a dirty game. It is also discrimination as two parties are being treated differently from the others.

[user104658]

Err no Vicky there should be no opposition party - opposing the government in any way is unpatriotic and tantamount to treason. You should just accept the democratic vote, realise that everyone else wants Tory, and vote Tory next time or else u hate Britain.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Err no Vicky there should be no opposition party - opposing the government in any way is unpatriotic and tantamount to treason. You should just accept the democratic vote, realise that everyone else wants Tory, and vote Tory next time or else u hate Britain.