[J-Rock]

On second watch, Freddie wasn't as bad as I thought first time round - i.e. in terms of the context of the whole thing. He WAS immature, but his WHOLE agenda was about getting back at Lisa who targeted him for over a month. Remember, she stopped targeting him when she finally realised the public sort of liked him. Once she was up for eviction, she flipped out at him again - so she IS a gameplayer - proven. This simply corroborates Freddie’s argument.

I also noticed that Freddie only started doing the ‘mad’ laughing and ‘teasing’ stuff (which is what he seems to be getting most stick for) AFTER Lisa started shouting at him – it was like it released the cap on both their boiling radiators. She was well in his face in that kitchen.

Lisa couldn't handle it, i.e. her 'plaything' for the first few weeks now had the upper hand...she must be sick. Freddie threw it back in her face, but could really have made himself even stronger (in terms of public opinion) if he had held back on the ‘teasing’ element.

So much is now down to how they all act over the next days/weeks.

All welcome to respond, but it would be nice to get proper response on the assessment of the context (including first 5 weeks!), rather than ‘love Freddie’ vs ‘Freddie is an arrogant pr*ck’ BS.

[superbad93]

Regarding Lisa not being able to handle it?
I don't think anyone would. He was sitting there acting like a five year old laughing in her face instead of doing what Freddie SHOULD have done which was attack her intellectually as I have constantly been saying.

It's not that she didn't deserve to be the one getting hounded for once but Freddie went about it the wrong way. He was so immature and arrogant and it didn't play out well for him in my view.

I liked him because he did not stoop to their level but he's gone and done that now and I've lost all respect for him.

[J-Rock]

Sorry Superbad but disagree with that totally. Yes, he was smiling on the sofa when everyone was up, and then in the kitchen basically reiterated what he had already said earlier in the series (see clip on other thread) that Lisa is a gameplayer (he said it in a relatively calm way - wasn't shouting). When Lisa heard that, she couldn't handle it coming from him, but this time she didn't have her gang to isolate him - so she flipped - SHE flipped first (watch the show FFS)...then Freddie started the rather immature, but to some extent understandable, laughing/teasing - as if to say 'Lisa, you can't handle it and your whole gameplan/bullying tactics have failed'

[superbad93]

I DID watch the show thanks J-Rock and of course Lisa flipped first, she always does, she's pathetic but Freddie didn't have to then start the mocking and laughing and immaturity.

I'd have loved it if he'd served her with his usual intelligence and outbursts but he didn't he acted like a child and for that, I'm dissapointed in him.

[reallynow]

Freddie was just flamming annoying, end of story, way too big for his boots!

[LemonJam]

Brilliant post, although I don't necessarily agree with it, a breath of fresh air on this forum

I really don't think there was enough proof that Lisa had a gameplan. She stuck with her friends and was nasty to Freddie at first, but she never made people nominate him. Everyone always agreed at the time they disliked Freddie, she never influenced them into disliking him.

However, Freddie is talking to other housemates saying that she has a gameplan, making them dislike her and henceforth, nominating her, is this not a gameplan in itself?

[mangasatsuma]

But when someone totally loses their rag I find it funny. If they tell me that "it isn't funny" I find it even funnier. I would find it funny that Siavash's plan backfired. I would find Rodrigo's indignant seriousness funny too. Freddie laughed when all the furniture got removed. Who didn't find that funny? Lisa. Rodrigo...

Sometimes "adult reasoned debate" doesn't get you anywhere.

[J-Rock]

Be disappointed (I was also, as I have said), but to turn so against him seems fickle to me - it's as though people watch each show with no memory of previous incidents etc. - it's all about context, emotions and warring factions - that's what the BB experiment (scripted or not) is meant to be about

[Cybele]

Originally posted by superbad93
I DID watch the show thanks J-Rock and of course Lisa flipped first, she always does, she's pathetic but Freddie didn't have to then start the mocking and laughing and immaturity.

I'd have loved it if he'd served her with his usual intelligence and outbursts but he didn't he acted like a child and for that, I'm dissapointed in him.

This is the attitude that I don't understand. Freddie shows that he is HUMAN and isn't perfect so people turn on him? It doesn't make any sense. Unless you are a hypocrite who expects others not to make any mistakes while you, yourself, are human and make mistakes.

The things that people crucify housemates for on this forum are ridiculous: being sad after getting your heart broken, being upset after being bullied, being happy to see someone who has bullied you get their comeuppance, etc. The only thing I can say is that I hope no one every judges the people on this forum with the same measure that is used against housemates. It is quite smug and hypocritical.

[superbad93]

Well I was never fully supportive of Freddie. I could stick him and wouldn't have minded if he'd won, but because he was honest and not a backstabber and he told people what he thought of them AND never stooped to ANYone elses levels.

I just wish he'd handled last night better, instead of laughing in Lisa's face, moaning and telling her she'd made him c*m...

[mangasatsuma]

I forgot the cumming bit. Hmmmm....

[h33]

My issue with Freddie in this row is how he behaved to Daffyd. I believe Lisa is threatened with those better off/ better educated/ more driven than herself - they are all attributes that she hasn't got and so they scare her in others. She then gets aggressive to mask her insecurities.

As I saw it, it was Daffyd that Freddie was accusing of having a game plan. My heart goes out to Daffyd because bless him, he's not the brightest - did you hear him trying to communicate to Bea at the end of last nights show? I also think he showed great humility with his apologies to Marcus for taking the punch/ punk thing up wrong, and I think that anyone of us could have missheard Marcus on that one.

I think Freddie was way off the mark with both his accusations, and the level of aggression against Daffyd. Fair enough, he's Lisa's henchman but he did not deserve the wrath he received. And Halftwat has really shown himself to lack a basic level of genuine emotional intelligence. I am sad to see him follow the leader (his leader - Bea-lezebub) like this.

[Cybele]

Originally posted by h33
My issue with Freddie in this row is how he behaved to Daffyd. I believe Lisa is threatened with those better off/ better educated/ more driven than herself - they are all attributes that she hasn't got and so they scare her in others. She then gets aggressive to mask her insecurities.

As I saw it, it was Daffyd that Freddie was accusing of having a game plan. My heart goes out to Daffyd because bless him, he's not the brightest - did you hear him trying to communicate to Bea at the end of last nights show? I also think he showed great humility with his apologies to Marcus for taking the punch/ punk thing up wrong, and I think that anyone of us could have missheard Marcus on that one.

I think Freddie was way off the mark with both his accusations, and the level of aggression against Daffyd. Fair enough, he's Lisa's henchman but he did not deserve the wrath he received. And Halftwat has really shown himself to lack a basic level of genuine emotional intelligence. I am sad to see him follow the leader (his leader - Bea-lezebub) like this.

Good point, but remember that Freddie doesn't see everything that we see. We see moments where David shows his true character. Freddie may only see the moments when Lisa has David wound up tight. I think that if Lisa is evicted, we will see a much sweeter side of David.

[The_Long_Run]

I don't see how ANY of them can be called a gameplayer, if their 'role' is constant. I don't believe it is in the perfrmane stamina to maintain a false persona throughout 9 weeks.

Freddie's demeanour on entering the house instantly rubbed Lisa up the wrong way. His 'Hooray Henry', l'anded gentry', 'Oxford graduate' priviledgecame over immediately. He was not aperson, he was a caricature and Lisa rushed to judgement. His confidence on entering was the rather 'Lord of the Manor' position which is why thee was an almost instant universal bondig amongst the surfs, a 'peasants revolt' sort of thing.

Lia is not gameplaying, she still sees him in exactly the way she did when she first met him. As she has seen people allying themselves to him, they have lost faour with her. The one's allying themselves have warmed to ome of the elements of Freddie's character. However, the dominant arrogance of priviledge re-exerted itself and it will harm him amongst the voting public.

His immediate laughter was the laughter of releif when he realised that Bea was likely to escape an almost certain eviction whn the nominations were cancelled. He reflected and came to the conclusion that she had only been nominated because he fears some innate power in Lisa. Lisa has no game plan but she does despise priviledge and has no fear of drawing attention to it. Freddie reacted to that because he sees it as a threat and he wanted to keep the pleb down and put her back in her rightful place.

At the end of the day, it is a class thing.

[superbad93]

Originally posted by Cybele

Good point, but remember that Freddie doesn't see everything that we see. We see moments where David shows his true character. Freddie may only see the moments when Lisa has David wound up tight. I think that if Lisa is evicted, we will see a much sweeter side of David.

As long as Bea or Lisa goes I'll be happy.
The house will be a much better place when those two are evicted.

[J-Rock]

I don't think David is a bad lad...have said so on previous post...but he has also been a bit bitchy. It's only since 'buttergate' that he has tried to be extra nice/sweet...again poor memories. When he first came in he was well up for the secret mission and well up for bitching with Lisa...

I do agree that Freddie has got some of this wrong though, I'm not an undying defender, but still think his reactions last night were not that bad - even the 'c*m' thing was only his way of saying to Lisa 'Oh, you're found out now and have lost it etc.' - it was childish, but to start making out it was 'weird' and all that - boll*cks!!

[hennessy]

soit's proven that she started shouting at him first, pointing and swearing abd because he LAUGHED he get the short end?
It's like telling off a dog who bit the owner because he was getting a beating

[The_Long_Run]

Originally posted by Ghostface77
soit's proven that she started shouting at him first, pointing and swearing abd because he LAUGHED he get the short end?
It's like telling off a dog who bit the owner because he was getting a beating

Why would a dog bite an owner who is getting a beating?

[hennessy]

er the dog was getting a beating
how would you phrase it?