[HalfwitFTW]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

It seems you don't understand how racist or potentially racist comments work. It's not about blunt comparisons, like you are making. Mimicking Indian accents connects to racism, abuse and ostracising that Indians had faced from Brits for decades. That same inference doesn't hold when mocking a Brazilian accent or a posh-boy's accent. You can't bluntly compare things like that.

I do find it funny that nearly ALL the people who say Marcus wasn't being offensive at all, or potentially offensive, are white and british. They miss the point with regards to what connotations certain actions and phrases have. It's a cop out to be honest.

Actually you make a good point here Ahmedfan.

It's like if a British person shortened the word 'Australian' and called someone an 'Aussie' instead... or an American called a British person a 'Brit'. this would not be considered racist at all. But shortening the word 'Pakistani' and calling someone a '****' WOULD be seen as racist, because the word '****' has a history of being used in an insulting and derogatory manner, and has negative connotations, whereas 'Brit' and 'Aussie' do not.

Same with accents. Mocking certain accents CAN be seen as racist because of what has happened in history. It really is not 'one rule applies to all'.

And by the way, I am not white either but I honestly dont think Marcus was being racist at all

[Shasown]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

ROFL. Maybe all the Indians and Africans who got upset about being offended/abused should apologise for remembering their history. They should ignore it, so that people can mock their accents etc and it would be fine, since history is ignored.

Let's ignore XMas now, that's just BS based on history!

Dont show your ignorance Ahmedfan. Xmas (as in the birthday of Jesus BarJoseph) didnt happen in December nor did it happen 2009 years ago.

So ALL Africans and Indians were abused by ALL the white folks in the past. And none of the poor suffering Indians and Africans abused anyone else be they white black pink or dayglo durking orange?

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by VickyJ
Noone said anything about phrases or words though, you brought that example up.

This is about mocking accents...

Which could be offensive to ANYONE on the recieving end.

It is far more likely, and far more logically, to cause offence to an Indian, than a Brazilian. This is why BB pulled Marcus into the DR. He doesn't get it yet.

I think I know the problem, I've spotted it.

We want or aim for equality in society, right, amongst all races. So logically we think, "Well if we can mock one accent, then we can mock another, that's fair and equal. No special benefits."

But because of history and inference, that argument brakes down.

You're asking people to forget history and forget inference. But that's basically impossible. How can you forget it? That's rather far-fetched.

An example of being racist to whites would be some action/phrase/word that relates to the apartheid incident in South Africa. As an example.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by HalfwitFTW

It's like if a British person shortened the word 'Australian' and calling someone an 'Aussie' instead... or an American called a British person a 'Brit'. this would not be considered racist at all. But shortening the word 'Pakistani' and calling someone a '****' would be seen as racist, because the word '****' has a history of being used in an insulting and derogatory manner, and has negative connotations, whereas 'Brit' and 'Aussie' do not.

Yes that bit I totally get. **** is a very offensive word because of history.

However the mocking of accents thing...anyone of another nationality can take it as racism...depending on the context of it.

But I dont think mocking accents is racist...as i said before, unless it is done specifically to offend in that way...for example calling someone a ****, and then proceeding to mock their accent would be racist. But if they mock your and you do it back, that is not racist.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by Shasown

So ALL Africans and Indians were abused by ALL the white folks in the past. And none of the poor suffering Indians and Africans abused anyone else be they white black pink or dayglo durking orange?

I don't write the history books and I'm not the one dictating society. It is what it is. There is a history and people remember it and they are entitled to remember it. If whites faced significant racism from other races, then it would be these 'other races' that would have to be careful with their actions/words/phrases.

Like I said, the strive for equality in society has led to a contradiction of sorts. By trying to be EQUAL in things like this, we end up causing offense.

Would you dare tell a 6 foot black man that he'd make a 'great sugar cane farmer'? Hey, you think it's OK and has no basis to cause offense. So I dare you. Stand by your posts.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by HalfwitFTW
It's like if a British person shortened the word 'Australian' and called someone an 'Aussie' instead... or an American called a British person a 'Brit'. this would not be considered racist at all. But shortening the word 'Pakistani' and calling someone a '****' WOULD be seen as racist, because the word '****' has a history of being used in an insulting and derogatory manner, and has negative connotations, whereas 'Brit' and 'Aussie' do not.

Bingo we have a winner! Wooop Wooop! So glad ...

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004
[
It is far more likely, and far more logically, to cause offence to an Indian, than a Brazilian. This is why BB pulled Marcus into the DR. He doesn't get it yet.

He was called to the diary room because he threatened sree with violence when he left the house. nothing to do with the mimicking of the accent.

If it WAS because of this, they would of pulled him on it straight away, not left it until later...also if they thought Marcus was being racist, they would never of allowed him to give his speech (which was SPOT ON by the way) without interupting him, and I would expect they would eject him, for said racism.

Or at least give him a warning for it. Neither happened.

[Shasown]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004
I don't write the history books and I'm not the one dictating society. It is what it is. There is a history and people remember it and they are entitled to remember it. If whites faced significant racism from other races, then it would be these 'other races' that would have to be careful with their actions/words/phrases.

Like I said, the strive for equality in society has led to a contradiction of sorts. By trying to be EQUAL in things like this, we end up causing offense.

Would you dare tell a 6 foot black man that he'd make a 'great sugar cane farmer'? Hey, you think it's OK and has no basis to cause offense. So I dare you. Stand by your posts.

Good lad, backing another loser so you decide to change the goalposts again. You didnt mention stating "sugar cane farmer" before, so when that arguement was slated you change the wording.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004


Would you dare tell a 6 foot black man that he'd make a 'great sugar cane farmer'? Hey, you think it's OK and has no basis to cause offense. So I dare you. Stand by your posts.

Noone said that though.

Again, we were on the subject of mimicking accents, not sugar cane farmers.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by VickyJ
Yes that bit I totally get. pa** is a very offensive word because of history.

However the mocking of accents thing...anyone of another nationality can take it as racism...depending on the context of it.

LOL, if you get that, then you must be able to get what I've said! Mocking an Indian accent is basically the same thing, just something derogatory and relating to racism from the past 50 years.

Of course context, tone, manner, etc matter. But fact was, Marcus was treading on very thin ice there, hence why BB intervened.

[HalfwitFTW]

Originally posted by VickyJ

Yes that bit I totally get. pa** is a very offensive word because of history.

However the mocking of accents thing...anyone of another nationality can take it as racism...depending on the context of it.

But I dont think mocking accents is racist...as i said before, unless it is done specifically to offend in that way...for example calling someone a pa**, and then proceeding to mock their accent would be racist. But if they mock your and you do it back, that is not racist.

I agree

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by Shasown

Good lad, backing another loser so you decide to change the goalposts again. You didnt mention stating "sugar cane farmer" before, so when that arguement was slated you change the wording.

It's basically the same thing. What difference is there? It's another way of being racist, indirectly, just like mocking accents is.

Ok, then, just for you: I dare you to mock an accent to a 6' Indian guy who is built and mean looking. Since you are so confident that it can't possibly offend, everything should be fine.

Let me know how it goes.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

LOL, if you get that, then you must be able to get what I've said! Mocking an Indian accent is basically the same thing, just something derogatory and relating to racism from the past 50 years.

Of course context, tone, manner, etc matter. But fact was, Marcus was treading on very thin ice there, hence why BB intervened.

But BB didnt intervene. the didnt do anything until he 'threatened violence outside the house'

BB even said that his warning was not because of this 'racism'.

I get that calling someone a **** is offensive...I do not get how it is only racist to mimick an indians accent but not to do the same to others of different nationalities...this is not the same thing as calling someone a ****...at all.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by VickyJ
He was called to the diary room because he threatened sree with violence when he left the house. nothing to do with the mimicking of the accent.

Wrong, it was for mocking his accent. You need to watch it back again.

Or at least give him a warning for it. Neither happened.

He did get a warning for it lol, all before his speech.

Sorry Vicky but you're just way off on your points tonight.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

Wrong, it was for mocking his accent. You need to watch it back again.

He did get a warning for it lol, all before his speech.

Sorry Vicky but you're just way off on your points tonight.

He didnt, BB clearly said that is was because of threats of violence outside the house.

I think it is YOU that needs to watch it back, not me.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by VickyJ
I get that calling someone a pa** is offensive...I do not get how it is only racist to mimick an indians accent but not to do the same to others of different nationalities...this is not the same thing as calling someone a pa**...at all.

What offense would calling Rodrigo a 'Brazili', have? None. I've explained everything in detail here but you're refusing to give in. There is no difference, mocking an accent, or a word, etc.

Mock Indian accent vs Mock Brazilian accent
Say pa*ki vs Say Brazilli

The comparisons highlight the same point. Certain things are offensive because they infer things, others aren't because they infer nothing.

It's all the same. Take your pick. Like I said to Shasown: Mimick the Indian accent to a 6' muscular mean Indian guy. If you're so confident that it's not offensive other than to lunatics like me and Sree, then do it. Let me know how it works out.

Halfwit doesn't mind, Rod doesn't mind, so why should this Indian guy mind?

[BBUK4LYFE]

Sree was my favorite housemate.

Sad, that he was evicted.

The Noirin situation really screwed him up.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

He did get a warning for it lol, all before his speech.

Sorry Vicky but you're just way off on your points tonight.

http://beatfiltering.com/index.php/1...649069f6a20148

I dont know if you are living in the uk, if you are you need to view this via the proxy link I have put here.

He got the warning for the THREATENING language. Not racism.

They even made sure that he didnt think this.

Watch it again, and tell me where they say he got the warning for mimicking srees accent.

[Shasown]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

It's basically the same thing. What difference is there? It's another way of being racist, indirectly, just like mocking accents is.

Ok, then, just for you: I dare you to mock an accent to a 6' Indian guy who is built and mean looking. Since you are so confident that it can't possibly offend, everything should be fine.

Let me know how it goes.

There we go again changing the goalposts again.

It depends in the context in which the mocking was given, the mood of the people involved and also how well we knew each other.

Given the fact that Sree had at times done mocking impersonations of other people in there. It is called being able to give and take and not playing the race card.

[AhmedFan2004]

You are right Vicky, my apologies. The formal warning was for the threat, the 'mild telling off from BB' was for the derogatory mocking.

You got me on that one.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

What offense would calling Rodrigo a 'Brazili', have? None. I've explained everything in detail here but you're refusing to give in. There is no difference, mocking an accent, or a word, etc.

Mock Indian accent vs Mock Brazilian accent
Say pa*ki vs Say Brazilli

No I doubt it would cause much offense to call rodrigo a 'brazilli' and I have no doubt that calling sree a '****' would cause offense, and it WOULD be racism.

But I stand by my view that mocking accents is not racist. And if you think it is in the case of sree, then you would also think that it was in the case of rodrigo.

Plus...I dont see how you could view it as racism at all...especially since sree also joined in mocking other peoples accents...so he obviously didnt think that it was offensive for him to do, so why should it be offensive if people do it back?

[BBUK4LYFE]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

It seems you don't understand how racist or potentially racist comments work. It's not about blunt comparisons, like you are making. Mimicking Indian accents connects to racism, abuse and ostracising that Indians had faced from Brits for decades. That same inference doesn't hold when mocking a Brazilian accent or a posh-boy's accent. You can't bluntly compare things like that.

I do find it funny that nearly ALL the people who say Marcus wasn't being offensive at all, or potentially offensive, are white and british. They miss the point with regards to what connotations certain actions and phrases have. It's a cop out to be honest.

Agree with your points.

I'm a Marcus fan and I'm hoping that he wins.

What he did by mocking Sree's accent and language was clearly offensive. He did intend for it to be that way. He only did it when they were arguing or to make fun of Sree.

Anyone arguing against that is completely ignorant to the subject.

[Shasown]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

He did get a warning for it lol, all before his speech.

Sorry Vicky but you're just way off on your points tonight.

Errrrr no he didnt, he got a warning for his alleged use of threatening language.

he did explain that he didnt consider his langage threatening but it was possible some people could see it that way.

BB emphasised that the warning was not in any way shape or form as a result of racism, perceived actual or otherwise.

Incidentally it wasnt all Brits who were racist to Indians in the past 50 years, so would you please amend the comments you make about this to something like sections of the British community or some Brits. I take offense at your broad brush comments.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by Shasown
It depends in the context in which the mocking was given, the mood of the people involved and also how well we knew each other.

Yes and I never doubted that. But you're still skating on very thin ice by mocking an Indian accent. And even if you think you're being playful, know the guy well etc it could still offend.

More importantly, he could have solid ground for being offended. What's stopping him from saying that he was offended because it relates to racism etc that Indians sufferred?

Given the fact that Sree had at times done mocking impersonations of other people in there. It is called being able to give and take and not playing the race card.

Except Marcus was done in the heat of an argument with some aggression, and Indian accents have far more inference to racism and ostracization that Indians faced for decades in the UK.

And Sree never played the race card either. BB did, for him though.

[BBUK4LYFE]

Originally posted by VickyJ

Ok, so basically mimicking other nationalities is alright...as long as they are not indian?

It's different when you are doing it in a joking manner. What Marcus did was to hurt Sree, by making fun of his culture and his accent.

I don't know why you have such a difficult time understanding that.

It all has to do with the intent.