[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by HalfwitFTW
And two thirds of what you say is usually rubbish. Occasionally you say some intelligent stuff which I agree with, like the points you made about the Sree racism thing, but most of the time you just chat $hit

There's a reason he put himself up in an attempted 3-way with David, and why he told volatile Rod about not nomming, when they were drunk.

That's all I'm saying. Think about it.

[tintedshadow]

Originally posted by setanta
He is playing the victim tinted. Did you not see him in the diary room after the chaos, with a big grin on his face, loving the distinction he'd made between himself and that band of accusers? He wasn't sure what wouldn't happen with regard to Rodrigo, but it would take a rocket scientist to realise that an extreme reaction may take place, especially since Siavash had told him that he would adhere to the rules and vote.

im afraid once again we may have to disagree brother,you see a guy grinning in the diary room as if he was over joyed by rodrigo/charlies reaction,i see a guy whos just had a fairly stressful evening and attemted to laugh it off..infact it wasnt so much of a laugh,as a grin as if to say "damn wtf just happened" ..

now ill answer both you and ahmedfan in one post if thats okay as he really is dragging it out..

while we all know rodrigo has a short fuse,that is no reason to pussy foot around a guy,when a guy abuses his wife do we say its the womans fault for making him react?fairly extreme analogy but i hope you get my point..

charlie goading rodney is diffrent to what siavash did last night.. when charlie has had occasions in the past where they have bumped heads,they have each agreed they will not make the same mistake again,so if charlie tomorrow took a squirt on rodrigo that would be seen as goading,not charlie not nominating and telling rodrigo just so he's in the know as to what is going on..

i now starting to wonder if ahmedfan is attempting to be pedantic and arguementative.. setanta has a few points which make sense,so i will reply to him in future.. you on the otherhand ahmedfan seem content in riling others,patronising and generally being a nuisance..

now in reference to your post ahmedfan.. obviosly its possible for siavash to be playing the victim,that is not to say that is what he did..he made a decision which he has every right to make,if others take issue with it thats fine,but chastising him the way they did is where they went wrong..

[Patrick]

I just hope the Public are clever enough to see this and keep Marcus in!

Its not fair that someone who has been entertaining the entire way might have to go at this point over someone like Siavash!

[setanta]

Originally posted by tintedshadow

im afraid once again we may have to disagree brother,you see a guy grinning in the diary room as if he was over joyed by rodrigo/charlies reaction,i see a guy whos just had a fairly stressful evening and attemted to laugh it off..infact it wasnt so much of a laugh,as a grin as if to say "damn wtf just happened" ..

now ill answer both you and ahmedfan in one post if thats okay as he really is dragging it out..

while we all know rodrigo has a short fuse,that is no reason to pussy foot around a guy,when a guy abuses his wife do we say its the womans fault for making him react?fairly extreme analogy but i hope you get my point..

charlie goading rodney is diffrent to what siavash did last night.. when charlie has had occasions in the past where they have bumped heads,they have each agreed they will not make the same mistake again,so if charlie tomorrow took a squirt on rodrigo that would be seen as goading,not charlie not nominating and telling rodrigo just so he's in the know as to what is going on..

i now starting to wonder if ahmedfan is attempting to be pedantic and arguementative.. setanta has a few points which make sense,so i will reply to him in future.. you on the otherhand ahmedfan seem content in riling others,patronising and generally being a nuisance..

now in reference to your post ahmedfan.. obviosly its possible for siavash to be playing the victim,that is not to say that is what he did..he made a decision which he has every right to make,if others take issue with it thats fine,but to chastising him the way they did is where they went wrong..

But tinted, he even suggested the divide in the house and said he was happy to be there.... so be it kinda thing. There was no sadness evident in his demeanour.

And your analogy really doesn't suit this discussion as there's no frame of reference in it. Siavash does understand what's behind Rodrigo's misgivings in the house and I can't come up with any other reason behind his motivation for opening up to him.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by Pmccaff2009
I just hope the Public are clever enough to see this and keep Marcus in!

Its not fair that someone who has been entertaining the entire way might have to go at this point over someone like Siavash!

Maybe all the chavs and general public will evict Siavash because he angered Charlie and riled him up.

Interesting how Charlie brought up the 'GF Cheating' and 'Backstabbing Marcus' issue in the discussion; very good move.

Hopefully the chavs, general public, masses of charlie fans and whatnot will be dialling to evict Vash moreso than Marcus.

I sense that this somewhat happened with Fred too - After he riled Charlie up, and was blatantly exposed, then.

[tintedshadow]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

There's a reason he put himself up in an attempted 3-way with David, and why he told volatile Rod about not nomming, when they were drunk.

That's all I'm saying. Think about it.

apologees for butting in on this "halfwitftw" but i just need to make a point before i go nuts..

king,he did not put himself in a 3way,in the diary room he went through every possible scenario which i agree was a little tedious,before guessing if he voted david then david would be up with marcus,and since siavash wanted to be up he decided while it may be risky to pit himself up against marcus and perhaps david,he was not going to nom david and just take things as they come..

i apreciate that you have a diffrent take on things,but some things are just to plain for even you to miss king

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by tintedshadow
king,he did not put himself in a 3way,in the diary room he went through every possible scenario which i agree was a little tedious,before guessing if he voted david then david would be up with marcus,and since siavash wanted to be up he decided while it may be risky to pit himself up against marcus and perhaps david,he was not going to nom david and just take things as they come..

He was attempting to, and expecting, a 3-way. Quotes from DR:

1)"If I nominate David, I will definitely not go up this week. It will be David and Marcus. If I nominate David, it is likely that it's me, Marcus and David ... Or, just me and Marcus. Do you take a risk of going against Marcus on your own, which means I will probably go home. Or do I let it just be David and Marcus. No free rides Biggie ..."

2)"Marcus has like 4/5 votes, David has 3 votes probably, and I have 3 votes. So it'll be me, David and Marcus."

[b]= Orchestrated and expected 3-way with David, slight risk of 2-way with Marcus.

[tintedshadow]

Originally posted by setanta
But tinted, he even suggested the divide in the house and said he was happy to be there.... so be it kinda thing. There was no sadness evident in his deamour.

And your analogy really doesn't suit this discussion as there's no frame of reference in it. Siavash does understand what's behind Rodrigo's misgivings in the house and I can't come up with any other reason behind his motivation for opening up to him.

personally,i see siavash not wanting the devide and what he said was he was standing by what he believed as appose to backing down just because some felt the need to argue,as if he has no rights to choose whether he nominates or not?

agreed siavash knows to a point what rodrigo might be like,but he wasnt looking to antagonise,infact it seemed he was informing rodrigo while it was just the three of them,and only because he felt bad that rodrigo wasnt aware that siavash had not nominated.. that was the best possible way for him to tell rodrigo,any other way would have been far more detremental to the house..

i can see why some think he was attention whoring himself or perhaps trying to act up,however its all about favouritism,sophie and marcus never got called out for not nominating,nor should siavash,theres no reason why sophie got off scot free after not nominating but siavash gets in the neck,they had the exact same reasoning..

so had charlie piped up with marcus not nominating,or sophie not nominating then i would see more of a point to what was being said..this hasnt been the case though,which is why siavash being singled out last night was in pretty bad taste..

[setanta]

Originally posted by tintedshadow

personally,i see siavash not wanting the devide and what he said was he was standing by what he believed as appose to backing down just because some felt the need to argue,as if he has no rights to choose whether he nominates or not?

agreed siavash knows to a point what rodrigo might be like,but he wasnt looking to antagonise,infact it seemed he was informing rodrigo while it was just the three of them,and only because he felt bad that rodrigo wasnt aware that siavash had not nominated.. that was the best possible way for him to tell rodrigo,any other way would have been far more detremental to the house..

i can see why some think he was attention whoring himself or perhaps trying to act up,however its all about favouritism,sophie and marcus never got called out for not nominating,nor should siavash,theres no reason why sophie got off scot free after not nominating but siavash gets in the neck,they had the exact same reasoning..

so had charlie piped up with marcus not nominating,or sophie not nominating then i would see more of a point to what was being said..this hasnt been the case though,which is why siavash being singled out last night was in pretty bad taste..

You're doing it again Tinted... comparing him to others when I'm just concentrating on his actions right now. I have no love for any of the rest of the housemates - don't think that for one second - but everything we've said has some relevance when you consider the course of action Siavash has deliberately taken over the last few weeks. This last few days is entirely in keeping with his character and suggests a guy who is genuinely interested, no obsessed with winning, just like the rest of them. That's my issue.

[tintedshadow]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

He was attempting to, and expecting, a 3-way. Quotes from DR:

1)"If I nominate David, I will definitely not go up this week. It will be David and Marcus. If I nominate David, it is likely that it's me, Marcus and David ... Or, just me and Marcus. Do you take a risk of going against Marcus on your own, which means I will probably go home. Or do I let it just be David and Marcus. No free rides Biggie ..."

2)"Marcus has like 4/5 votes, David has 3 votes probably, and I have 3 votes. So it'll be me, David and Marcus."

[b]= Orchestrated and expected 3-way with David, slight risk of 2-way with Marcus.

didnt i explain this to you in a previos thread?david was up against bea right?so we know that he got most votes?so now bea's gone,it was more likely that david would go up,so if siavash nominated david then david would go up not siavash,so by your logic,if he was attemting a three way he would nominate david..

now let me make this clear for you..in the past,freddie and others enjoy going up for eviction,because its interesting to see if they stay or not,marcus had wanted to be up for much the same reason,sophie didnt nominate last week cause she wants to know if she was up,would she go,they all want to know that..

so siavash wanted to be up,not to be a matyr,not to play the victim with charigo,but so had he stayed atleast he could rest easy knowing he was there on the publics say so,and if he goes,again he knows where he stands with the public..this is his reason for his non nomination..nothing more..nothing less..

[AhmedFan2004]

Tinted Shadow:

The quotes are there, plain and simple, as seen in the HL show too - Very Blatant.

Everyone knows what Rodrigo is like, his reaction is a GIVEN.

Add it up. Martyr + Victim = Very convenient

Other explanations and ways around this, are wish-washy and rather contrived. Lots of nice guy theories, nothing solid and sensible.

Especially ONE WEEK before the final. End game for the £100k ... surely.

[HalfwitFTW]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

There's a reason he put himself up in an attempted 3-way with David, and why he told volatile Rod about not nomming, when they were drunk.

That's all I'm saying. Think about it.

This is word for word what Siavash said and explains his reasoning:

'If I nominate David, I will definitely not go up this week. It will be David and Marcus. If I do not nominate David, its likely that its going to be me, Marcus and David OR its me and just Marcus. Do you take a risk of going against Marcus, on your own, which probably means I'll go home. Or do I just let it be David and Marcus? No free rides in this life. It has to be earned. Im not going to that final week without earning my place. No way jose. I'm not nominating'

He knew there would be every risk of him going up in a 2 way eviction with Marcus, but still put himself up.
Dont know why you are finding that so difficult to understand?

As for telling Rodrigo, big deal. So hes not allowed to have a conversation with Rodrigo anymore?

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by HalfwitFTW
He knew there would be every risk of him going up in a 2 way eviction with Marcus, but still put himself up.
Dont know why you are finding that so difficult to understand?

I agree, a risk. But still secondary to his expectation of a 3-way eviction. Like he said, probably 3 noms for David, 3 for himself. That's the idea.

See Quote 2.)"Marcus has like 4/5 votes, David has 3 votes probably, and I have 3 votes. So it'll be me, David and Marcus."

As for telling Rodrigo, big deal. So hes not allowed to have a conversation with Rodrigo anymore?

He is, but I'm allowed to propose the idea that he did it to get Rod angry and then ensure a row, with Siavash defending himself = Victim.

[tintedshadow]

Originally posted by setanta

You're doing it again Tinted... comparing him to others when I'm just concentrating on his actions right now. I have no love for any of the rest of the housemates - don't think that for one second - but everything we've said has some relevance when you consider the course of action Siavash has deliberately taken over the last few weeks. This last few days is entirely in keeping with his character and suggests a guy who is genuinely interested, no obsessed with winning, just like the rest of them. That's my issue.

alright brother,for this one time,i will not mention noone else..

your issue is that siavash is genuinly interested with winning,like the rest?then thats hardly an issue as he never said he wasnt,he simply wants to be in the final by public vote and not by lurking in the shadows..

i agree,siavash does think about the game a fair bit,more so then others,however it has been said by those who have left in the past,being in that house where there isnt much to do,your left to your own devices hence the back biting/game playing.. now while siavash may talk about the game,that is not to say this was his reason behind not nominating..

he decided not to,after he had thought through perhaps if he nominated,he would not be up,and david would (since he didnt really know he was up anyway).. so by his logic,while perhaps a little flawed,he figured he would be up if he didnt nominate david (which is how things are at the moment)

so there really is no issue..he wanted to be up,so whether he stays or goes,its in the publics hands...

[setanta]

Originally posted by HalfwitFTW

This is word for word what Siavash said and explains his reasoning:

'If I nominate David, I will definitely not go up this week. It will be David and Marcus. If I do not nominate David, its likely that its going to be me, Marcus and David OR its me and just Marcus. Do you take a risk of going against Marcus, on your own, which probably means I'll go home. Or do I just let it be David and Marcus? No free rides in this life. It has to be earned. Im not going to that final week without earning my place. No way jose. I'm not nominating'

He knew there would be every risk of him going up in a 2 way eviction with Marcus, but still put himself up.
Dont know why you are finding that so difficult to understand?

As for telling Rodrigo, big deal. So hes not allowed to have a conversation with Rodrigo anymore?

But if he nominates he breaks the pattern that he's been so intent on laying out for last few weeks. Going now and going later is really irrelevent to him unless the later is him leaving last, as winner. To do this he has to continue the selfless martyr act. Can't you see it?

[AhmedFan2004]

Exactly; he can't brake the 'No Free Rides', 'Put myself up', 'Anti Scheming' ethos; so he has to actively try and put himself up, again.

It makes no difference if he gets evicted this week, or doesn't finish 1st next week. So it's worthwhile to execute this plan and gun for 1st place.

It's time to gun for the £100k prize, take the risk, and play the martyr + victim combo; it's a clever strategy, and he's thought about it for days!

If it works, he stays, and is a good contender to win. He's not messing now.

[tintedshadow]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004
Tinted Shadow:

The quotes are there, plain and simple, as seen in the HL show too - Very Blatant.

Everyone knows what Rodrigo is like, his reaction is a GIVEN.

Add it up. Martyr + Victim = Very convenient

Other explanations and ways around this, are wish-washy and rather contrived. Lots of nice guy theories, nothing solid and sensible.

Especially ONE WEEK before the final. End game for the £100k ... surely.

what you consider nice guy theories are nothing more than me seeing things objectively and perhaps not over analysing a sitution which really needs no analasis what so ever..

but heres where it gets messy,by your own quotes siavash said "david has 3,i may have 3 and marcus may have 3" so if he nominated david then david would go up against marcus,NOT siavash.. why is this not plausible enough for you?

furthermore i care not about rodrigos temperament,by that logic if someone has something to say to rodrigo they should beware of his wrath?are you nuts?siavash told him what he would have found out from some where else,and then he would have been much worst,so he told him at the table..

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by tintedshadow
but heres where it gets messy,by your own quotes siavash said "david has 3,i may have 3 and marcus may have 3" so if he nominated david then david would go up against marcus,NOT siavash.. why is this not plausible enough for you?

Yes, if he nommed David, he'd expect David vs Marcus. What's your point? Everybody knows this ... clearly he avoided nomming David to put himself up, or try to. This is common info.

furthermore i care not about rodrigos temperament,by that logic if someone has something to say to rodrigo they should beware of his wrath?are you nuts?siavash told him what he would have found out from some where else,and then he would have been much worst,so he told him at the table..

You don't care, but if Siavash has a plan as my initial post outlines, then he WOULD care. It's clearly easy bait to get a big row going, then play victim.

Infact, Siavash even went into the garden and re-ignited the argument again; all of them vs Siavash. Then in the DR, labouring on about them not letting him speak, shouting, etc. He was very aware of the 1 vs Many dynamic.

[tintedshadow]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004
he has to actively try and put himself up, again.

that is all he did,it seems you have put way more thught in to it,more so then even siavash..

he actively tried to put himself up,and he has.. so thats that.. and why?to play the matyr?nope,so IF he is in the final,he is there because the public want him there,as i have said previosly,they have all wanted to know how they are percieved,when they all went up they wanted it that way so whoever went meant they werent as hated as they thought..

siavash wants to know,if he is wanted in that house..nothing more.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by tintedshadow
he actively tried to put himself up,and he has.. so thats that.. and why?to play the matyr?nope,so IF he is in the final,he is there because the public want him there,as i have said previosly,they have all wanted to know how they are percieved,when they all went up they wanted it that way so whoever went meant they werent as hated as they thought..

siavash wants to know,if he is wanted in that house..nothing more.

Dude we're going round in circles again. He did it in a way to gun for a 3-way eviction; play the martyr, but David evicted.

He didn't ask the HMs to put him up against Marcus; he didn't want a 2-way eviction. He was expecting a comfy 3-way eviction:

Quote 2: "Marcus has like 4/5 votes, David has 3 votes probably, and I have 3 votes. So it'll be me, David and Marcus."

That's why I don't accept these 'alternative' theories; they are BS. See the above quote.

[setanta]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

Dude we're going round in circles again. He did it in a way to gun for a 3-way eviction; play the martyr, but David evicted.

He didn't ask the HMs to put him up against Marcus; he didn't want a 2-way eviction. He was expecting a comfy 3-way eviction:

Quote 2: "Marcus has like 4/5 votes, David has 3 votes probably, and I have 3 votes. So it'll be me, David and Marcus."

That's why I don't accept these 'alternative' theories; they are BS. See the above quote.

It's all academic anyway lads. He just wants to maintain his strategy of avoiding nominating. It's make or break time now as there's not long left and he can't alter his gameplan at this late stage.... so obvious. Instead he'll cause a scene, play the victim, mention Freddie and tell them to give the money all to charity. Dear lord, can't you see the pattern here? He's been doin gthis for weeks.... you just accept it now cuz he's on his own but in reality he's been playing and waffling the whoel way through.

[tintedshadow]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

Yes, if he nommed David, he'd expect David vs Marcus. What's your point? Everybody knows this ... clearly he avoided nomming David to put himself up, or try to. This is common info.

your missing it,so IF he nommed david it would be marcus and david,he didnt want that,so thats why he didnt nominate..nothing more..

You don't care, but if Siavash has a plan as my initial post outlines, then he WOULD care. It's clearly easy bait to get a big row going, then play victim.

Infact, Siavash even went into the garden and re-ignited the argument again; all of them vs Siavash. Then in the DR, labouring on about them not letting him speak, shouting, etc. He was very aware of the 1 vs Many dynamic.

lmao oh my... brother,rodrigo was going to find out at some point,so by siavash telling him earlier he figured there would be less need for an arguement..

as for siavash "re-igniting" the arguement,he saw charlie outside still back biting with the others,so he jumped outside to speak to him,why is this a problem?you feel everyone can have a say but siavash?re-igniting would be waiting till every one is tucked up in bed,no one saying a word,and then siavash saying "yeah so i didnt nominate,everyone kool with that" .. if you saw charlie outside still going on,perhaps you wouldnt go face things head on,i would..

anyways im off..gotta close my fast..

gone

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by tintedshadow
your missing it,so IF he nommed david it would be marcus and david,he didnt want that,so thats why he didnt nominate..nothing more..

Yes I know. Everybody knows. He wanted to be up. You're mis-reading me BADLY.

lmao oh my... brother,rodrigo was going to find out at some point,so by siavash telling him earlier he figured there would be less need for an arguement..

Yes, but what use is telling him later in the week? Better on Monday, people then see him as a victim and vote accordingly.

as for siavash "re-igniting" the arguement,he saw charlie outside still back biting with the others,so he jumped outside to speak to him,why is this a problem?

Because he wanted to exploit the 1 vs Mant scenario, to play victim.

you feel everyone can have a say but siavash?re-igniting would be waiting till every one is tucked up in bed,no one saying a word,and then siavash saying "yeah so i didnt nominate,everyone cool with that" .. if you saw charlie outside still going on,perhaps you wouldnt go face things head on,i would..

That would be fine if he didn't plan it, and just went outside to fight his corner honourably. But IMO, based on my initial post, he wanted them to kick off, and watched them do so. Then milked it a 2nd time in the garden.

And he actually jokingly mentioned noms again in tonight's HLs ...

Is that a flicker that he knows noms talk sets them off against him? He seemed aware of that. Easy ploy to play victim. Maybe he's not so innocent and casual as you WANT to believe.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by setanta
Instead he'll cause a scene, play the victim, mention Freddie and tell them to give the money all to charity. Dear lord, can't you see the pattern here? He's been doin gthis for weeks.... you just accept it now cuz he's on his own but in reality he's been playing and waffling the whoel way through.

Definitely, his end game is kicking into full gear. More not nominating BS, the martyr act, the victim role play and gunning for £100k sneakily.

He even jokingly teased in tonight's HLs ''So let's discuss noms again ?''. This shows he knows they'd kick up a fuss if he was serious. So he's aware a victim situation would arise; Many vs One, with him heroicly defending himself like last time.

[farhad]

Originally posted by Pmccaff2009
I just hope the Public are clever enough to see this and keep Marcus in!

Its not fair that someone who has been entertaining the entire way might have to go at this point over someone like Siavash!

You find someone who effs and blinds better than someone who plays thinkings man game? If these points are real what the OP is saying nd if vash does succeed, thn he has surpassed nasty nick as the expert mastermind calculating gameplay.