[Jack_]

Is it down to the way we're brought up? Is it religious beliefs? Is it people just following the crowd?

Or something else?

[\PJ/]

I think people feel threatend by same sex couples,i don't although saying that i have never saw a same sex couples in real life just on TV.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Is it down to the way we're brought up? Is it religious beliefs? Is it people just following the crowd?

Or something else?

Combination of all three - I think!

[Stu]

A combination of a few things, really. Same reason racism and sexism exist. And organized religion, for that matter. When people get stuck in there ways it is very hard to change them. Plus the sight of two men kissing on the street looks odd to many. But if it happened more often people would eventually become normalized to it over time. Look how far we've come!

That's why my remedy for most peoples general ignorance is a healthy YouTube regiment of Bill Hicks.

[Jack_]

Personally I'd say it's the way we're brought up. If you think about it, from the minute we're born we're instantly bisexual. It's not until we start to grow up that everything around us is based around opposite sex couples, our parents etc. Stories, fairytales, TV shows all base their shows around love between man and woman. We begin to believe that anything else isn't 'normal', and so thus become straight until we get older and begin to realise that it isn't just like that.

It's not until, or unless you actually think about why it exists that you start to realise that things don't just have to be about a man and a woman. For people who haven't/don't do this I think it's just a mix of what I said before and following the crowd, i.e everyone else hates them, so I will too.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Jack_

from the minute we're born we're instantly bisexual.

Ooh. Uh...

That's certainly a novel and interesting viewpoint I am sure is true in some cases but I believe ultimately it is in our consciousness or destiny if you like what sexual preference we are.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Personally I'd say it's the way we're brought up. If you think about it, from the minute we're born we're instantly bisexual. It's not until we start to grow up that everything around us is based around opposite sex couples, our parents etc. Stories, fairytales, TV shows all base their shows around love between man and woman. We begin to believe that anything else isn't 'normal', and so thus become straight until we get older and begin to realise that it isn't just like that.

It's not until, or unless you actually think about why it exists that you start to realise that things don't just have to be about a man and a woman. For people who haven't/don't do this I think it's just a mix of what I said before and following the crowd, i.e everyone else hates them, so I will too.

BUt it isnt normal. I dont care how you spin it! There is a reason why only men and women can procreate. Its an anomally for sure. Most people would never think, or consider being with the same sex, ever. That is a fact. ANd of course if you are gay, you think people are in denial etc.... NOt true, its because you are different, for one reason or another.
Now, I dont have any problems with homosexuals, and I am not disgusted or anything. Some of my good friends are gay, and we can talk openly about anything.

So my point is, I can perectly understand, people finding it not normal, but People have to be neam spirited, and bad by nature to be homophobic.
Because imo, youre homophobic, if you take some ative ation against homosexuals. like persecute them, call them names, discriminate against them, in jobs, or anything else.

So take out religion, and how you are raised, it will still be about the same percentage of people who are gay.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

There is a reason why only men and women can procreate.

Yes. Simple science. There's no divine reason beyond that. If there was there would be no gay people in the first place unless divine force wanted to punk some people out from birth which is rather bizarre. It simply takes a man and a woman to make children. Some of which turn out to be gay. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Most people would never think, or consider being with the same sex, ever. That is a fact.

Numbers have nothing to do with it. Most people would not think or even consider skydiving.

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

So take out religion, and how you are raised, it will still be about the same percentage of people who are gay.

You just created an argument for homosexuality being a natural, normal part of life, admitting yourself it has nothing to do with social constraints.

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

BUt it isnt normal. I dont care how you spin it! There is a reason why only men and women can procreate..

It is normal, evident by the fact that a sizable percentage of the world's population was gay, is gay and will be gay in the future. Not being able to procreate has nothing to do with sexual desire. People have protected sex all the time, which prevents any possible pregnancy and takes procreation out of the equation, just like gay sex.

I really don't get what procreation has to do with gay sex not being normal. They have different sexual desires. They just happen to not be able to procreate with them.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

BUt it isnt normal. I dont care how you spin it! There is a reason why only men and women can procreate. Its an anomally for sure. Most people would never think, or consider being with the same sex, ever. That is a fact. ANd of course if you are gay, you think people are in denial etc.... NOt true, its because you are different, for one reason or another.
Now, I dont have any problems with homosexuals, and I am not disgusted or anything. Some of my good friends are gay, and we can talk openly about anything.

So my point is, I can perectly understand, people finding it not normal, but People have to be neam spirited, and bad by nature to be homophobic.
Because imo, youre homophobic, if you take some ative ation against homosexuals. like persecute them, call them names, discriminate against them, in jobs, or anything else.

So take out religion, and how you are raised, it will still be about the same percentage of people who are gay.

I agree with Wildcat...

Most straight males I know are not comfortable with seeing 2 gay men together (neither are some females) but this does not mean they are homophobic. I do know one man who, quite disgustingly, is proud to admit that during his punk days, he used to go out "**** bashing"; he uses derogatory language when talking about gays and takes is stupidly far by refusing to listen to music if it is by somebody gay. I really don't have an explanation for him being like this... maybe it's because he is a bit older and was brought up in an age where it was more taboo than it is nowadays..
I actually don't think there is as much homophobia these days and people are quick to label people who don't want it rubbed in their faces as homophobic..

[Stu]

Originally Posted by happyland

Most straight males I know are not comfortable with seeing 2 gay men together (neither are some females) but this does not mean they are homophobic.

That is the point of the thread though. It may not mean they are homophobic, but likewise it does not make being gay abnormal. And actually, yes, I would consider it 'homophobic'. Not in a violent way, extreme way but if seeing two guys kissing creeps you out then obviously you are homophobic to a certain extent. If you are arachnophobic you don't like the look of spiders. They give you the shivers.

Originally Posted by happyland

I really don't have an explanation for him being like this.

I do. It's because he is a fucking moron.

Also, there is still a massive amount of homophobia everywhere. Just because the media and politicians have put on a brave face and accepted it counts for nothing.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Stu

That is the point of the thread though. It may not mean they are homophobic, but likewise it does not make being gay abnormal. And actually, yes, I would consider it 'homophobic'. Not in a violent way, extreme way but if seeing two guys kissing creeps you out then obviously you are homophobic to a certain extent. If you are arachnophobic you don't like the look of spiders. They give you the shivers.


I do. It's because he is a fucking moron.

Also, there is still a massive amount of homophobia everywhere. Just because the media and politicians have put on a brave face and accepted it counts for nothing.

I don't think it's homophobic at all... Being gay is not abnormal, but to a straight man, seeing two men together is ; doesn't mean they feel hatred towards them or fear them...
I also think a lot of gay men feel the need to exaggerate their "gayness" to prove something to the world... I have a gay friend who is very comfortable with his sexuality, he doesn't hide it and is quite open, but him and his partner lead a completely normal life like any other couple.. they don't "camp it up"/only frequent gay bars/walk about with their tongues down each others throats etc. They are comfortable with themselves and don't feel the need to shout to the world "We're gay and we'll show you we're gay and the whole world had better accept it"

And yes you're right, he is an effing moron!

And just to mention your spider analogy... I am not arachnaphobic; I don't scream or shiver when I see a spider. I don't however go out my way to look at them. I don't enjoy looking at them, I don't have a reason for it, I just don't

[Tom]

The Bible told people it was wrong and because we've been a largely religious country until the past 100 years or so, a lot of Christian values exist in our culture and continue to be passed down.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Tom

The Bible told people it was wrong and because we've been a largely religious country until the past 100 years or so, a lot of Christian values exist in our culture and continue to be passed down.

I think general ignorance also comes into play though. People must have the ignorance and disgust in them to want to be homophobic too, not just because the Bible tells them it's wrong. The Bible tells us thousands of things are wrong. From the genuinely wrong to the downright bizarre.

I think in most cases The Bible merely acted as a convenient supported for certain peoples pre existing homophobia.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Stu

I think general ignorance also comes into play though. People must have the ignorance and disgust in them to want to be homophobic too, not just because the Bible tells them it's wrong. The Bible tells us thousands of things are wrong. From the genuinely wrong to the downright bizarre.

I think in most cases The Bible merely acted as a convenient supported for certain peoples pre existing homophobia.

People took it as truths and as a result has become something that is disapproved of. I think some people underestimate the impact that religion has actually had on everything even today and thats probably where, as you say, ignorance comes in.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Tom

People took it as truths and as a result has become something that is disapproved of. I think some people underestimate the impact that religion has actually had on everything even today and thats probably where, as you say, ignorance comes in.

I agree. Although religious practices is declining certain facets have stayed and in some cases no longer even need the 'religion' part.

[_Seth]

More about it needs to be taught in schools. And some homophobes simply haven't had enough of these throughout their lives:

[Princess]

People are scared of things that they have no clue about. Or they're just idiots.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Princess

People are scared of things that they have no clue about. Or they're just idiots.

This also. A simple fear of the unfamiliar. Which is why I said if more gay men were walking the streets as couples, the next generation would grow up normalized to it. But the reason they don't all openly walk the streets as couples is precisely BECAUSE of homophobia. It's a vicious circle.

But again, look how far we have come already as a society. It is my hope and opinion that in the future homophobia will exist much like Neo Nazism does now confined merely to extremist fringe groups.

[Beastie]

To be honest, nowadays you are probs deemed more weird if you are "straight" rather than bi or gay. Being bisexual or gay is becoming more common now, more acceptable. The homophobic people well are probablly more traditional but need to accept the fact that same sex couples exist.

[Lauren]

On subject with Stu and Wildcat... I think homosexual 'sex' is neither normal nor abnormal, because it comes under the subject of sex - which is completely 100% natural. The desire of sex is fuelled by our need to reach a sexual pique, and whicever way this is achieved is natural. Nothing to do with procreation in my view.

To be quite honest, homophobes are far too concerned about others sexual behaviour. Seriously, whats it to them who people are attracted to?

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Lauren

On subject with Stu and Wildcat... I think homosexual 'sex' is neither normal nor abnormal, because it comes under the subject of sex - which is completely 100% natural. The desire of sex is fuelled by our need to reach a sexual pique, and whicever way this is achieved is natural. Nothing to do with procreation in my view.

To be quite honest, homophobes are far too concerned about others sexual behaviour. Seriously, whats it to them who people are attracted to?

Yeah they should concentrate on their own sexual attractions and desires rather than being bothered about other people's.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Lauren

On subject with Stu and Wildcat... I think homosexual 'sex' is neither normal nor abnormal, because it comes under the subject of sex - which is completely 100% natural. The desire of sex is fuelled by our need to reach a sexual pique, and whicever way this is achieved is natural. Nothing to do with procreation in my view.

Actually that's far better than my explanation, yeah. It's sexual desire that needs to be fulfilled. Plain and simple.

Originally Posted by thebeast

Yeah they should concentrate on their own sexual attractions and desires rather than being bothered about other people's.

They are probably not getting any themselves! That's the underlying cause of most of the world's tensions in this humble perverts eyes.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Stu

Actually that's far better than my explanation, yeah. It's sexual desire that needs to be fulfilled. Plain and simple.


They are probably not getting any themselves! That's the underlying cause of most of the world's tensions in this humble perverts eyes.

Yep, my uncle always said that the problems and violence of the world would be cut dramatically if every fella on the planet had a good old peddle and crank every morning and every night of their lives.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by setanta

Yep, my uncle always said that the problems and violence of the world would be cut dramatically if every fella on the planet had a good old peddle and crank every morning and every night of their lives.

Your uncle is my new hero .

Such an eloquent way of putting it!

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Stu

Your uncle is my new hero .

Such an eloquent way of putting it!

It has a ring to it alright... it's not sexy but sure it doesn't have to be, not when you're flying solo anyway.