[vesavius]

Originally Posted by calyman

As I suspected then, nothing of substance has been added, apart from rehashing the same accusations which just don't measure up....

This is pointless.

You have already taken all the valid evidence to counter what you are saying and thrown it away because it dosent suit your point...
It's just a tactic to shut the other PoV down before they get the chance to speak. If I say why I think he is what he is, you just say 'same old accusations' and repeat your entrenched position.

How else am I meant to represent his true nature if I don't use old situations to do so?

[lol]

I like Ben unlike everyone else, he's a good housemate and is polite.

[calyman]

[QUOTE=vesavius;3394646]

Originally Posted by calyman

As I suspected then, nothing of substance has been added, apart from rehashing the same accusations which just don't measure up....QUOTE]

This is pointless.

You have already taken all the valid evidence to counter what you are saying and thrown it away because it dosent suit your point...
It's just a tactic to shut the other PoV down before they get the chance to speak. If I say why I think he is what he is, you just say 'same old accusations' and repeat your entrenched position.

How else am I meant to represent his true nature if I don't use old situations to do so?

It's quite easy really, if you are able to prove your points, then use examples that are valid. Even if you thought I was being rigid in my response to your so far invalid argument, then you would easily be able to give other examples of his backstabbing, manipultations etc.

For instance I think that scabby is a shallow vain, negative selfish and bullying person because of the way she interacts with others. One example is the so called offense at being called an actress by Ben. Is this really the worst thing that someone has called her? If so, then she is very thin skinned. She harrased Ben about this, but would not let him explain himself, with her constant shouting and abusive comments interupting him. Similarly, when she learned that ben had noted her glee and hand rubbing, again, most people would have shrugged it off and though very little of it. She again inflates the situation, rants and screams at him, is verbally abusive towards him and had no intention of actually listening to him when he was trying to explain the context in which he said his comment. A more reasonable response would be, to tell the person how "upset" you were, then listen to what they have to say. She is thertefore the nasty little bully that |I accuse her of being and my evidence supports this.

If you can find similar to say about Ben that can be supported by acknowledged and deliberate wrongdoing on Ben's part then please provide it, not the claims made against him by others, which as I keep saying have no real substance.
In the absence of providing this, then I agree; it is pointless, so at least keep an open mind towards his motives.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by calyman

It's quite easy really, if you are able to prove your points, then use examples that are valid. Even if you thought I was being rigid in my response to your so far invalid argument, then you would easily be able to give other examples of his backstabbing, manipultations etc.

and who judges they are valid? you?

thats is exactly my point... you basically claim every point made against your opinion is invalid and then just repeat the same old thing.

Like I say, it's just an old tactic for shutting down the opposing Pov before you have to address it. You can't debate against someone who's only real stance is 'everything you say isnt valid because it has been said before'.

[DrunkerThanMoses]

I still like him more than others, but his constant sorry is getting on my nerve.

[stoney]

Originally Posted by vesavius

oh please.

Revisionism? I have been pointing out his behaviour based on events as they happen since the start.
ahh 'Bullying', I knew this was coming. It always does when certain people's fav HMs are threatened, regardleess of the facts. It's just an emotive claim to make that dosent need to rely on the truth.... same old TiBB, same old tactics being used.

Such a pathetic interpretation of the events, used in a very disinegnious way.


lol amazing.

Your actually really trying to flip his lies, back stabbing and betrayals on to the people that he has done them to?


Sorry, had to cut that stream of utter horsesh!t off, I was starting to feel ill.

At the best the OP is naive and a tragically bad judge of character.

if you have been pointing out his "behaviour based on events" then can you please direct us to some of these cos I aint seen it

Is bullying not when one group of people are regularly picking on one person not letting them get there point across and belittling them at every turn, as some do to ben at every opportunity while rallying their troops against him at every chance they get Are you claiming this does not happen in the house or do you just not see that as bullying

"Your actually really trying to flip his lies, back stabbing and betrayals on to the people that he has done them to?"
again the OP asks for actual incidents.
So what LIES are you referring to?
What Backstabbing has he actually done and to who?
What Betrayals has he done?


The main reason I ask is cos i simply dont see the conversations the way you seem to and see you as the one who is niave with a tragically bad judge of character

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by calyman

manky skanks with their sleezy faux lezzie affaire...

How the hell are they "manky skanks," and why is one girl's crush on another a "sleezy faux lezzie affaire"?

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by stoney

The main reason I ask is cos i simply dont see the conversations the way you seem to and see you as the one who is niave with a tragically bad judge of character

Thats fine, you can see me how you wish, it's only a forum.

There is a very good reason that even Ben's closest friends in the house, aside from Mario, now don't trust him though. JJ, SS, and even Dave have his number now.

The place in which Ben finds himself is entirely self created... why does he deserve your support when he can't even behave in a way that keeps theirs?

[stoney]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Thats fine, you can see me how you wish, it's only a forum.

There is a very good reason that even Ben's closest friends in the house, aside from Mario, now don't trust him though.

The place in which Ben finds himself is entirely self created.

but you are the one claiming to have all the facts but simply wont share with the class

give us 1 example of a lie and where he projected this lie onto someone else as you claimed

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by stoney

but you are the one claiming to have all the facts but simply wont share with the class

give us 1 example of a lie and where he projected this lie onto someone else as you claimed

the thing is I have, repeatedly... just search on it.

I just don't see why I have to continously retype it for every person that enters the conversation late.



Honestly, answer me this... why do you think JJ, SS, and Dave are now saying they don't trust Ben?

[JustSkipIt]

Originally Posted by vesavius

....Am I allowed to talk about his continous reassurance to Sunshine in week 1 that he was her friend, all the while repeatedly betraying her behind her back, even to the point of nomming her?...

If you were sharing a house with someone you hardly knew, and they started having a go at you "Blah Blah, verrucas, whine, whine, blub, blub, and I thought you were my friend..."
How would you respond?
The automatic reply for anyone with any kind of compassion or, indeed, social etiquette would be "I AM your friend". Did you expect him to say "I'm not your friend, whatever gave you that idea?"
Besides, have you ever not liked someone on first impressions, then found you got on with them quite well over time? The only error Ben made was to open his big mouth to Scabby and then stick his foot in it.

And I wish he would grow a backbone

[stoney]

"why does he deserve your support when he can't even behave in a way that keeps theirs? "

cos we are not in the BB house COMPETING for a win.
They are playing their own gameplan to win.
Has either SS or JJ been a decent friend to Ben the last week or so. Nope they haev moved away from him to be closer to the ones they didnt like last week, just like Ife has moved away from shabby and Caoimhe

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by JustSkipIt

If you were sharing a house with someone you hardly knew, and they started having a go at you "Blah Blah, verrucas, whine, whine, blub, blub, and I thought you were my friend..." The automatic reply for anyone with any kind of compassion or, indeed, social etiquette would be "I AM your friend"... How would you respond?

I don't know.. honestly?

maybe you consider it 'social etiquette' to say one thing to a persons face and another behind their back, to pretend to be someones friend while you slag them off, but I don't.

I guess thats the difference.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by stoney

"why does he deserve your support when he can't even behave in a way that keeps theirs? "

cos we are not in the BB house COMPETING for a win.

There are different ways to compete, he choose a way that involved betrayel and backstabbing.

This really comes across as an attempted validation of his behaviour rather then arguing to deny it, which is a change of tone for this thread I must say.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by lol

I like Ben unlike everyone else, he's a good housemate and is polite.

Me too ,but some folk think vile manners and sheer ignorance is funny ,I dont ,it says more about the way they were raised than it does me

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Me too ,but some folk think vile manners and sheer ignorance is funny ,I dont ,it says more about the way they were raised than it does me

I don't think those things Chuff... I like HMs that are funny, honest, and resiliant.

Ben only really unintentionally ticks one of those things partly for me (funny), and certainly not the other two.

[stoney]

Originally Posted by vesavius

the think is I have, repeatedly... just search on it.

I just don't see why I have to continously retype it for every person that enters the conversation late.



Honestly, answer me this... why do you think JJ, SS, and Dave are now saying they don't trust Ben?

Ves, you are the one that said you had the facts but are reluctant to share them.
i havent seen any on this thread tho unless you are talking about the sunshine nomination where i have no problem with him for nominatiing a very annoying person too early when nearly everyone else did ( like Giovan who claimed to be her friend that week too) and then making an effort to be her friend to giver her some comfort.
Remember they had not been in the house long and factions were not really drawn up at that time. SS and the way shabby and co were treating her actually brought ben, mario, SS, JJ and dave together a bitty,imo, and they tried to protect her a little. Or that is what i saw on my telly

HONESTLY.......JJ is saying that he doesn't trust Ben, if he is(didnt watch any live lasyt night cos I got in later and watched the england game and they were all in bed by the time I was finished) because team Shabby are far better manipulators than niave Ben is and JJ, who team shabby all hated last week for his treatment of poor rachael, does not have a clue( could have stopped there really) who to trust.
SS has been off with ben for a week or so now. She seems to alienate any friends she has and has had a go at JJ, Ben and Mario for very trivial things while ignoring the nastiness from shabby and co.
Dont know what is Dave's prob is, altho he is being iscolated a little more due to Ben's closeness with mario imo

Maybe I'm just being biased cos i like Ben's honesty, loyalty and niavety but the 3 people who were friends now giving him a hard time must have a very poor memory of what has actually been happening in the house and who has been bitchin, manipulating and lieing the most in the house if they are suddenly going to be bestest buddies with Shabby and co who are just after troops to stay in if they have suddenly turned on ben over something

Hope that is honest and full enough for you

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by arsenalforever

a lot of people got on his back for nomming sunshine who he said he was friends with

but i agree with eevrything else i don't think he go this week
i think he one of the more likeable hm,s left

Yeah him nominating Sunshine was a mistake but I do really like Ben. He is one of my favourite housemates and I hope he stays on Friday. I do have a bad feeling Govan could just escape the eviction

[stoney]

Originally Posted by vesavius

There are different ways to compete, he choose a way that involved betrayel and backstabbing.

This really comes across as an attempted validation of his behaviour rather then arguing to deny it, which is a change of tone for this thread I must say.

again there is your accusation of betrayal and backstabbing. can you please elaborate a little on this so called backstabbing and betrayal for me cos i must have missed it

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by stoney

again there is your accusation of betrayal and backstabbing. can you please elaborate a little on this so called backstabbing and betrayal for me cos i must have missed it

search is your friend.

Honestly no offense intended, but it gets tiresome to have to continously retype the same points all the time for people who havent been around.

Can I also ask if you watch LF?

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by stoney

Ves, you are the one that said you had the facts but are reluctant to share them.

I am not reluctant, but as I keep saying I already have and they are out there.

Just do a search.

Originally Posted by stoney

HONESTLY.......JJ is saying that he doesn't trust Ben, if he is(didnt watch any live lasyt night cos I got in later and watched the england game and they were all in bed by the time I was finished) because team Shabby are far better manipulators than niave Ben is and JJ, who team shabby all hated last week for his treatment of poor rachael, does not have a clue( could have stopped there really) who to trust.

I wish you had seen it last night, it showed a lot that would have changed your mind (maybe)

JJ only said he didnt trust Ben based 100% on his betrayel of SS, the same reason for Dave's dissaproval

Originally Posted by stoney

Maybe I'm just being biased cos i like Ben's honesty, loyalty and niavety but the 3 people who were friends now giving him a hard time must have a very poor memory of what has actually been happening in the house and who has been bitchin, manipulating and lieing the most in the house if they are suddenly going to be bestest buddies with Shabby and co who are just after troops to stay in if they have suddenly turned on ben over something

Hope that is honest and full enough for you

yeah it was, and thanks for the decent reply. I think your fundamentally wrong about Ben, but I like people that can talk about things without getting drama.

[stoney]

some of the time. I gotta work and there is a world cup on too

ok if you cant be botherred to back up your claims thats up to you. I had an open mind and am happy to be educated on who i right or wrong.

Can I ask who you suport and like in the house or is it only josie who altho i like i have went off her over her lies in nominating dave?

[stoney]

As i keep saying i never saw it last night so what betrayel of SS are you going on about?

is it the noms thing? If so how do they know and did JJ nominate SS that week too?

PS as an old luddite what is search *blushes*

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by stoney

some of the time. I gotta work and there is a world cup on too

ok if you cant be botherred to back up your claims thats up to you. I had an open mind and am happy to be educated on who i right or wrong.

Can I ask who you suport and like in the house or is it only josie who altho i like i have went off her over her lies in nominating dave?

My claims are already backed up... repeatedly. But if you can't be bothered to search thats your call.

who do I like? Different people for different reasons... most I like because they add value to the house at any given time, but I like good funny people to win.

Who do I think adds value to the house apart from Josie? JJ, Govan, Shabby, even Ife now in her own way... If you look at other threads you will even see that say I dislike Ben but would rather Dave to go Fri for the benefit of the house. I am pretty objective about who I want to watch at any given time tbh.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by lol

I like Ben unlike everyone else, he's a good housemate and is polite.

Unlike everyone else? He is one of the most popular housemates in it ATM. It's not as if it's a unique viewpoint to cherish.