[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Well lets be honest here, If the British army had never come across the water to Ireland in the first place there would have been no IRA.

Hi Niamh,
I hadnt spotted this till others revived this thread, but its an interesting comment you make and goes down the lines of the chicken and the egg question.

Now obviously the IRA has been around for hundreds of years in one form or another, but im assuming that you are on about when the troops entered NI in 1969?

On researching this period, it looks like there had been a reasonable period of stability from the initial flareups in the early 1920s up until the 1960s. The WW2 probably occupied alot of peoples attention for awhile.
Irish Nationalism never disappeared and the original IRA members were around in various forms and with varying agendas and aims, and on the 50th anniversary of the Easter Rising (an Irish armed revolt in 1916 against Britain resulting eventually to talks and partition), the perceived resurection of the IRA led to the Unionists forming the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) who started the campaign of violence towards catholic targets. And it was then that a split occurred in the IRA thinking and the Provisional IRA appeared with intent on armed activity.
It was at this point that the Irish Republic issue a warning that it couldnt sit by and watch innocent catholics being murdered, which drove the Northern Ireland authorities to request that Britain helped out with Troops.
These Troops were initially welcomed by both sides of the innocents, but gradually over time the Nationalist community began to hate the troop presence and saw it as an occupation. (Bloody Sunday was a massive turning point in this attitude).

IMO Ireland has been buggered up since the Brit settlers of the 1600s, but colonialism was not confined to Ireland, who themselves carried out this action when invading and colonising Pictland(?) (now Scotland).

But i think that the real damage was done in the 1920s when there was an agreement for division, but it was done badly with Nationalists trapped on the wrong side of the border. The Troubles (as they have since been called) were always there just waiting to boil over, which they eventually did in 1960s.

You can compare this with other such bad politically managed border jigging with the Germany (post WW1 & WW2), Vietnam, Korea, and the former Yugoslavia. All failed attempts to seperate a given country due to political division. Korea only, remains divided like NI, a melting pot of tension that could one day spill over and burn the world again due to our ancestors inability to sort it out properly in the first place. And us now will suffer.

I end this long (yawn) piece by saying that NI today is relatively peaceful, and only the people of NI that truly want peace can ensure it never erupts again. Irrespective of what happened centuries ago, they are all Irish now and should work together as free Irish and alienate the trouble makers.
This Englishman will back them 100%.

[Niamh.]

I wasn't referring to when they entered Northern Ireland in 1969 no. I was refering to when they first formed in 1913.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I wasn't referring to when they entered Northern Ireland in 1969 no. I was refering to when they first formed in 1913.

It was the Irish Volunteers that formed in 1913. They has the little row in the town in 1916. During that period the term Irish Republican Army was used by the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Republican Brotherhood to loosely describe themselves. The IRB co-opted James Connelly's Irish Citizens Army.

There were splits within organisations after the suspension of the Home Rule Act in 1914 after the declaration of war. But at that time the IRA wasnt a term used to describe any or all of the nationalists movements.

If you read the text of the Easter Proclamation you will see this backs up the above

Poblacht na h Éireann.

The Provisional Government
of the
Irish Republic
To the people of Ireland.

IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom.

Having organised and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organisation, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organisations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and, supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory.

The remaining forces left of those organisations were formally called the IRA in 1919 upon the formation of the Dáil Éireann in Dublin on 21 January 1919.(First sitting and inaugaration of the Aireacht.)

The term had been used before however IN America in the 1860's The acronym IRA was first used by the IRB organization in America (also known as the Fenian Brotherhood).

[StGeorge]

I think its safe to say that the recent politics of Ireland as a whole (100yrs or so), has been a mess that both sides should not look back at with pride.

As i have said, i think the Troubles (1960s onwards) was a direct result of a botched partition.
But i also beleive that in a modern civilised society, to take up arms instead of going to the ballot box, then you have lost your argument.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

It was the Irish Volunteers that formed in 1913. They has the little row in the town in 1916. During that period the term Irish Republican Army was used by the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Republican Brotherhood to loosely describe themselves. The IRB co-opted James Connelly's Irish Citizens Army.

There were splits within organisations after the suspension of the Home Rule Act in 1914 after the declaration of war. But at that time the IRA wasnt a term used to describe any or all of the nationalists movements.

If you read the text of the Easter Proclamation you will see this backs up the above



The remaining forces left of those organisations were formally called the IRA in 1919 upon the formation of the Dáil Éireann in Dublin on 21 January 1919.(First sitting and inaugaration of the Aireacht.)

The term had been used before however IN America in the 1860's The acronym IRA was first used by the IRB organization in America (also known as the Fenian Brotherhood).

Yes we learned all about it in school

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Yes we learned all about it in school

Unfortunately Niamh there are many Brits who only know about Ireland from what they see on TV news.

I just hope that the youth of NI can work together for its future and maybe decades down the line the island can be reunited like the Germanies were..in peace and with agreement. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.

I just wish that forums like this were not used as a place for people to spout untruths and bigotry just cos a BB HM happened to have been blown up in NI whilst a serving soldier. Dislike him for reasons to do with his BB performance..and not due to his former career.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Unfortunately Niamh there are many Brits who only know about Ireland from what they see on TV news.

I just hope that the youth of NI can work together for its future and maybe decades down the line the island can be reunited like the Germanies were..in peace and with agreement. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.

I just wish that forums like this were not used as a place for people to spout untruths and bigotry just cos a BB HM happened to have been blown up in NI whilst a serving soldier. Dislike him for reasons to do with his BB performance..and not due to his former career.

I never said I disliked him because he was a soldier though?

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I never said I disliked him because he was a soldier though?

Sorry, i didnt mean you....i refer to the numpties who are attacking him for being either a slob, or perv or generally for living on earth, but use his service and where he got his disability as an excuse for vitriol.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Sorry, i didnt mean you....i refer to the numpties who are attacking him for being either a slob, or perv or generally for living on earth, but use his service and where he got his disability as an excuse for vitriol.

oh lol, sorry crossed wires. I don't particularly like him but only because he's a boring HM

[StGeorge]

The thing im trying to say is that i dont think that a BB forum should be used to discuss Irish politics due to a HMs employment in the services and his obvious disability caused whilst serving there.

I tend to just post my bit to try an correct anomalies with comments like "Steve and Britain invading Northern Ireland", which is just not historically true.


BTW....As you did mean the 1916 period, then all i can say about your original comment below, is that the British Army at the time was made up of 10 of 1000s of Irishmen who were serving as a part of the UK forces for which Ireland belonged. It was the subsequent disagreement about how HomeRule was going and the emergence of a Unionist armed militia, that saw the IRA emerge as well. If partition wasnt agreed by Nationalists like Collins, then Civil War was on the cards. From what i can ascertain, the Brits wanted out and had actually agreed to HR when the 1st WW started. What happened after that was a botch job and fault IMO lays on both sides.

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Well lets be honest here, If the British army had never come across the water to Ireland in the first place there would have been no IRA.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

oh lol, sorry crossed wires. I don't particularly like him but only because he's a boring HM

No worries..i actually understand your viewpoint and agree with alot of what you say.

TBH im finding it really difficult this year to actually like any of them. No one stands out as a decent character to get my support..they all have various flaws. JJ2 seems normal at the mo' but its early days yet....he is a suck arse to JJ1 tho'.

[boomoo]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Wrong.
He volunteered to take that explosion. He did that when he signed up to serve. You need to understand that.
If he didn't do that on purpose then you or I would eventually be in line for it. Probably me. I'm not as brave as Steve but I have a feeling your less likely to be counted on if it comes to it.
The good news is that Steve volunteered to take that explosion first and so it will never make it to your front door or mine.

Steve is a dull HM?
One of the reasons you even get to watch entertaining HMs in a program called BB is BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE STEVE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The sad.. I mean just pathetic, sad and even downright disgusting things is when people don't even understand that.
That is a ****ing tragedy that far too many spoiled young people don't understand why their iPhone and BB voting parties and entertaining programs are OWED to the Steves of this world.

Anyways.. I also find him an intriguing HM so its all good for me.

I agree with your posting.
Plus you have to be very courageous to make a life for yourself after such horrific injuries no matter how they were caused.
Unless you have been close to someone who has been terribly injured you cannot have any idea what they have been through.
There are years of painful operations and the continual problems with the end of the legs.
He has never complained once on BB. He has shown up the housemates.
I do not think he will win but he does not deserve to be villified for being injured while serving our country.
I suppose the majority of bloggers were not born when this country was facing daily terrorist threats from NIreland.