[Angus]

Yesterday evening my son and his wife were out with their 13 month old son, it was about 7.15 pm. As they passed by a park near their house, they noticed the playground was on fire. My son pulled out his phone and rang the fire brigade having enquired of some male adults watching if anyone else had done so and being told no.

At that moment they were surrounded by a gang of about 12-15 young black teenagers, the ringleader being a girl of about 15. She started insulting my daughter-in-law, and insisting she wanted to fight her. My daughter-in-law and son tried to walk away without comment, at which point the gang followed them, the girl picking up a brick and saying she was going to hit the baby unless my daughter-in-law fought her, and the rest of the gang members kept egging her on. When my son pulled out his phone to call the police, the gang started screaming, "oh why are you picking on us, are you racist, are you? Yeah you are man." This was done at top volume, obviously for the benefit any potential witnesses to what they were about to do. Meanwhile the male adults close by said and did nothing to intervene. Just when things looked hopeless, at that moment, thankfully, the sirens of the fire engines were clearly heard fast approaching, and the gang scattered like cockroaches in daylight. It was only then that one of the male adults who had been watching asked my son if they were okay. Too little too late. So much for relying on the help of bystanders. I should mention that the male adult bystanders were themselves black, and might have had some influence on this gang if they had intervened.

Well my son did finally get through to the local police, and was met with a total lack of any sense of urgency about the incident and in fact it was even suggested to them that they must have done something to provoke the thugs - it was even being hinted that perhaps they had racially provoked them! This is political correctness gone mad where the police who are supposed to be there to protect us are more concerned with the perpetrators of violence than the victims.

Welcome to crime ridden, thug friendly Britain, where law abiding people, minding their own business, are attacked and accused of provoking the scum that inhabit our streets, to mindless violence, whilst the laughingly called "police" force do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to protect or reassure the victims, or to track down the perpetrators.

Sorry about the length of this post, but I needed to vent, and I am still absolutely seething that these scumbags are still walking the streets to intimidate and threaten others.

[setanta]

Eh, hang on a second: why would a family out for a walk want to fecking provoke a gang of disorderly youths, especially when they have their child with them? That's crazy stuff. The nerve of the police to even hint at that.

[Shasown]

Tell your son to make a complaint to his local councillor, thats part of their job. Also if it has genuinely upset them complain to the police themselves, if he then feels fobbed off by them make a complaint to the police ombudsman.

[Vicky.]

Be prepared for people saying you are lying to try and stir up racial hatred. That happened to me when I told people about something that happened a couple of years back. Although mine wasnt quite to the extent of this :S

But yeah, things like this do happen. Rarely, but it does happen. And the police appear not to care about ANYTHING these days. I was threatened by a guy not long ago, and the police said they could 'speak' to him but they couldn't actually do anything until he has actually come to my house and hit me. Then said, when he turns up, phone 999. Nice.

[Angus]

I have begged my son to take this further, but the attitude of the police officer he complained to has put him right off. He said he felt as though he was the one under suspicion! Instead, they are now seriously considering moving - I am sooo mad. Sign of the times? MUCH.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Tell your son to make a complaint to his local councillor, thats part of their job. Also if it has genuinely upset them complain to the police themselves, if he then feels fobbed off by them make a complaint to the police ombudsman.

I want him to take it further, but I'm not the one who has to live in that neighbourhood, and my daughter-in-law is now so freaked out all she wants to do is move!

The fact that nobody intervened when they saw a young couple and a baby being threatened like that has really made me mad. It makes you realise that probably NOBODY would come to your aid if you were in trouble - seems even basic human compassion no longer exists, or probably more to the point, people are too terrified to help.

[Omen]

Those people who were afraid to intervene might be worried a knife would be drawn on them. Still, they could have called the police. England seems to be in a terrible state, (I presume it happened in England). Young people with no respect.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by angus58

I want him to take it further, but I'm not the one who has to live in that neighbourhood, and my daughter-in-law is now so freaked out all she wants to do is move!

The fact that nobody intervened when they saw a young couple and a baby being threatened like that has really made me mad. It makes you realise that probably NOBODY would come to your aid if you were in trouble - seems even basic human compassion no longer exists, or probably more to the point, people are too terrified to help.

I would suggest your son complains to the police. He might be right about them, but he will never know until he tries. I have heard very bad things about the London Metropolitan Police though so understand why he might feel that way.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I would suggest your son complains to the police. He might be right about them, but he will never know until he tries. I have heard very bad things about the London Metropolitan Police though so understand why he might feel that way.

I agree - it's just a case of trying to convince him. My feeling is that the police should have taken the initial report more seriously and searched the area for this gang whilst the issue was still live. 24 hours on it's a bit late to do anything, but the apathy on the part of the police is despicable, and its no wonder these thugs have no respect for or fear of the law.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Omen

Those people who were afraid to intervene might be worried a knife would be drawn on them. Still, they could have called the police. England seems to be in a terrible state, (I presume it happened in England). Young people with no respect.

Yes, I can understand why people would be worried about intervening, but the more that people turn a blind eye, the more the thugs get control of the streets. This happened in Croydon, in a fairly quiet residential area, so it seems nowhere is safe from these scumbags.

[Lee.]

That sounds absolutely terrifying for your son and his family and it is disgusting that these arseholes can get away with this sort of thing on a day to day basis.
There is no fear of the police or any other type of authority for that matter any more..
I hope your family are ok

[Shaun]

I think more often than not the Police are willing to pass the buck onto factors of blame that they cannot chase up, so as to avoid the hassle. It's wrong, but it happens. I remember this guy assaulted me a couple of years ago and despite loads of witnesses, CCTV footage and him being caught, he got away scot-free because I was made to feel partly responsible.

I'm usually hesitant around the whole "ugh the Police are rubbish, gang culture is rife" shtick because it conjures the image of an angry Daily Mail-reader, but it does happen.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by happyland

That sounds absolutely terrifying for your son and his family and it is disgusting that these arseholes can get away with this sort of thing on a day to day basis.
There is no fear of the police or any other type of authority for that matter any more..
I hope your family are ok

Thanks. At least none of them were hurt, but it has freaked us all out in case this gang turn up in their neighbourhood again. It seems there's no protection from these teenage thugs at all - even if they are caught, they are too young to prosecute and are usually let off with a slap on the wrist.

[InOne]

Damn, that sounds bad. Epecially when they threatened the child :/ I've been assaulted and mugged a few times. When I rang the police and stuff the first thing they usually say is "We're probably not going to be able to do much about this". I was also attacked and in broad daylight and people just stood and watched, and then I was the one cautioned!! It's really not good these days. I hate to say it, but asians play the race card a lot here too.

[AfroMullet]

We as black people need to stop playing the stereotype and move forward, this is the type of **** that annoys me, these idiots need to stop this type of bull**** as it does nothing for anyone, no one gains anything, but everyone looses. Although i think the education system and system in general does neglect us, that is no excuse as everyone knows right from wrong, and i bet if there parent found out about this, they would beat they kids ass, the kids know its wrong but choose to live up to stereotypes since its cool to be a gangster and uncool to be educated, what they fail to realise is that the black people in the real slums (Which are not in England, but i do accept that there is some bad places) are only there and only do what they do because they have too, they would do anything to have the oppertunities black youth over here have, but decided to not make the most of. We need more positive black role models but the problem is, the system only allows the negative ones to be heard.

We need to stop dancing and start seeing the bigger picture and moving forward.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by AfroMullet

We as black people need to stop playing the stereotype and move forward, this is the type of **** that annoys me, these idiots need to stop this type of bull**** as it does nothing for anyone, no one gains anything, but everyone looses. Although i think the education system and system in general does neglect us, that is no excuse as everyone knows right from wrong, and i bet if there parent found out about this, they would beat they kids ass, the kids know its wrong but choose to live up to stereotypes since its cool to be a gangster and uncool to be educated, what they fail to realise is that the black people in the real slums (Which are not in England, but i do accept that there is some bad places) are only there and only do what they do because they have too, they would do anything to have the oppertunities black youth over here have, but decided to not make the most of. We need more positive black role models but the problem is, the system only allows the negative ones to be heard.

We need to stop dancing and start seeing the bigger picture and moving forward.

Excellent post and very true!

[Angus]

Yes, it seems that when political correctness started pervading the police force and the courts, commonsense and justice flew out the window. It's outrageous that sometimes the victim is persecuted as much by the police as they were by the perpetrator.

[BB_Eye]

I wouldn't compare the danger of life in Wearside to life in South London for a second, but thugs make using public transport around here thoroughly unpleasant (as if the poor service from bus and rail companies weren't bad enough). Even if there is nothing physical, you're always getting chavs whose every other utterance is '****** off' and 'knock you out' and no one dares stand up to them as it gets you nowhere. It actually makes it difficult for me to go out a lot of the time.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by AfroMullet

We as black people need to stop playing the stereotype and move forward, this is the type of **** that annoys me, these idiots need to stop this type of bull**** as it does nothing for anyone, no one gains anything, but everyone looses. Although i think the education system and system in general does neglect us, that is no excuse as everyone knows right from wrong, and i bet if there parent found out about this, they would beat they kids ass, the kids know its wrong but choose to live up to stereotypes since its cool to be a gangster and uncool to be educated, what they fail to realise is that the black people in the real slums (Which are not in England, but i do accept that there is some bad places) are only there and only do what they do because they have too, they would do anything to have the oppertunities black youth over here have, but decided to not make the most of. We need more positive black role models but the problem is, the system only allows the negative ones to be heard.

We need to stop dancing and start seeing the bigger picture and moving forward.

The trouble is that the gang mentality overtakes individual reasoning, and these kids were egging each other on to "prove" how hard they were. This particular gang happened to comprise black kids, but there are just as many white and asian gangs around. I doubt most of these kids have parents who give two hoots what they're up to, and for them a gang probably feels like their "family". Anyone outside their particular gang seems to be fair game.

It's profoundly scary and depressing that no-one came to my son's aid, and it just makes you very aware of how totally and utterly alone and defenceless you really are every time you leave the safety of your home. Don't expect Joe Public to help you if you need it.

[sooty]

Once I was mugged in front of my house (supposed to be a very quiet area) He was carrying a knife.
It was more than 15 years ago, but ever since when I walk in the dark alone, I look back often to make sure nobody is following me.

My colleague was strangled (for his mobile) while walking Thames after eating out, luckily he gained conscious following morning at hospital.

I feel Angus's frustration.
Those gangs but also the behaviour of bystanders, police,,,,.,

What is the real problem, what cause these troubles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.
education, social morality even economic?,,,,,.
We have to think about it. I do not know the answer but I know it would affect every one of us.

[CookieDough4000]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I think more often than not the Police are willing to pass the buck onto factors of blame that they cannot chase up, so as to avoid the hassle. It's wrong, but it happens. I remember this guy assaulted me a couple of years ago and despite loads of witnesses, CCTV footage and him being caught, he got away scot-free because I was made to feel partly responsible.

I'm usually hesitant around the whole "ugh the Police are rubbish, gang culture is rife" shtick because it conjures the image of an angry Daily Mail-reader, but it does happen.

To be fair I think most of the blame in that sort of case lies with Sting.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by CookieDough4000

To be fair I think most of the blame in that sort of case lies with Sting.

lmao. YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED HIM.
(wait, were you even there?)

[Angus]

Originally Posted by sooty

Once I was mugged in front of my house (supposed to be a very quiet area) He was carrying a knife.
It was more than 15 years ago, but ever since when I walk in the dark alone, I look back often to make sure nobody is following me.

My colleague was strangled (for his mobile) while walking Thames after eating out, luckily he gained conscious following morning at hospital.

I feel Angus's frustration.
Those gangs but also the behaviour of bystanders, police,,,,.,

What is the real problem, what cause these troubles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.
education, social morality even economic?,,,,,.
We have to think about it. I do not know the answer but I know it would affect every one of us.

It really is depressing to realise how many other people have had dreadful things happen to them. I know it could have been much, much worse, but even so I feel traumatised about this incident, and I wasn't even there!

The blame lies firmly with past governments who have decriminalised a lot of very serious anti-social behaviour to the point where it is not adequately punished even when the perpetrators are caught. There are no longer any meaningful consequences for bad behaviour.

So what do you do with minors who commit crimes? No-one seems to know, but one suggestion would be that parents should be held legally accountable for the criminal behaviour of their offspring, either by way of imprisonment or by way of compensating the victims, and their children should be put into some sort of juvenile facility (at the parents' expense) where they WILL be taught right from wrong if the parents are incapable of doing the job.

Also power and control should be given back to parents and teachers to use reasonable discipline over unruly children - as things stand kids are growing up knowing they are untouchable in law, and without any proper guidance or ground rules it is easy to see how monsters are created.

[Lee.]

Bring back National Service

[Angus]

Originally Posted by happyland

Bring back National Service

Why did we ever scrap that I wonder? - it taught so much more than just the obvious: - self discipline, self reliance, teamwork, respect for authority, independence, empathy for others and self respect. Now we just have thousands upon thousands of disaffected kids, disconnected from society and seemingly growing up without any morals or compassion at all.