[Shardlake]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

So, ridiculing someone because they are fat is the same as being racist?

I really don't think so.

Yes, it is still kind of discrimination. But it is not the same. If it was, you would be locked up for calling someone fat in the street, like you would be for being racist.

Yes its EXACTLY the same. Its discrimination, pure and simple. Go up to a perfect stranger in the street and call them fat you will be arrested for harassment.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I'm saying I don't think it is the same as racism or homophobia. theres a difference.

but considering your a mod that has banned people for being racist,homophobic and transphobic,you or any other mod have not banned anybody for discrimination against peoples weight.

i infact got an infraction for reporting discrimination the once.

[Shardlake]

If you are a Manager of a tour operator and someone who is 35 stone walks into your travel agents and you say 'oh sorry you cant have a seat on this plane you are to fat' that is discrimination, that person could sue and the tour operator would be committing a criminal offence, that is no different to someone saying 'sorry you cant come in, we dont have blacks in here'

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

but considering your a mod that has banned people for being racist,homophobic and transphobic,you or any other mod have not banned anybody for discrimination against peoples weight.

i infact got an infraction for reporting discrimination the once.

That is a total lie. You would never get an infraction for reporting discrimination.

And I have actually banned people before for being negative about peoples weight, so get your facts right before you accuse me of stuff thanks.

Over the top posts, or posts that just say 'i hate **** coz shes a fat cow' or something like that, are infracted.

But I cannot for the life of me see how someone would think calling someone fat was the same as being racist.

Can I also add, I have never discriminated against Josie about her weight...not that its relevant, but i think it needed to be said

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shardlake

If you are a Manager of a tour operator and someone who is 35 stone walks into your travel agents and you say 'oh sorry you cant have a seat on this plane you are to fat' that is discrimination, that person could sue and the tour operator would be committing a criminal offence, that is no different to someone saying 'sorry you cant come in, we dont have blacks in here'

Erm, what if the person IS actually too fat for the seats?

Would the airline have to make changes to the plane that the 35 stone person wanted to fly on?

I'm actually curious :S

Evidently, the first thing that came up when I goggled to find out more about this, as i didnt know this was illegal...was this story http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news...d-off-jet.html.

So how come that airline isnt being prosecuted? :/

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

That is a total lie. You would never get an infraction for reporting discrimination.

And I have actually banned people before for being negative about peoples weight, so get your facts right before you accuse me of stuff thanks.

Over the top posts, or posts that just say 'i hate **** coz shes a fat cow' or something like that, are infracted.

But I cannot for the life of me see how someone would think calling someone fat was the same as being racist.

Can I also add, I have never discriminated against Josie about her weight...not that its relevant, but i think it needed to be said

i did get infracted when i reported oddballmisfitsftw about it.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

If you treat someone differently because of a physical attribute then you are discriminating, whether you personally choose to call it that, it still is by definition.

It is a cheap excuse to say weight is OK to bully people with because in your opinion they can change. And you cannot say being gay is genetic because it simply is not - there is no evidence for that claim. For example a gay mother or father is no more likely to father or mother a gay child!!! Being gay is more to do with gender psychology than genetics!!!

I think it is wrong to discriminate on the grounds of APPEARANCE, whatever that is.

Being gay and being black cannot be considered in the same category, one IS a life choice the other you are born with - being black is what you are born with.

Whether we should discriminate on life choices is a separate matter to physical attributes or genetic conditions.

For example, if someone is a drunk driver and loses their legs in an accident, on visual appearances alone you would sympathise with them, but their disability would have been due to a life choice? Should we also discriminate against parents who know they may pass on a genetic disease? Or their offspring, as that is a life choice?

Well this just highlights your ignorance and certainly robs your thread of any credibility. I agree sexuality is not the same as skin colour. One relates to somebody's personality and inclinations, the other is something that a person cannot change, at all.

Can discrimination against fat people even begin to be given the same weight as either? Not a chance. Obesity is a health problem, it affects your proneness to heart failure, diabetes and cancer. Race discrimination and homophobia should be opposed in all cirumstances, because it deems, out of ignorance, that those things are somehow undesirable or unhealthy with no real evidence and demands an entire group of people change something which they can't.

[Shardlake]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Erm, what if the person IS actually too fat for the seats?

Would the airline have to make changes to the plane that the 35 stone person wanted to fly on?

I'm actually curious :S

You cant flat out say to someone sorry you're to fat to do this. That person has the same legal rights and the right to be treated with respect and dignity as someone who is 9 stone. If that person has no medical reasons not to fly then (which if they were 35 stone I imagine there would be) the airline would have a legal and moral obligation to accommodate that person. You cannot turn someone away because of something that maybe wrong with them, that is illegal.


Discrimiination is discrimination, you cant pick and choose what is and what isnt. Ridiculing someones weight is no different to ridiculing someone because they have no legs or because they are black

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Shardlake

You cant flat out say to someone sorry you're to fat to do this. That person has the same legal rights and the right to be treated with respect and dignity as someone who is 9 stone. If that person has no medical reasons not to fly then (which if they were 35 stone I imagine there would be) the airline would have a legal and moral obligation to accommodate that person. You cannot turn someone away because of something that maybe wrong with them, that is illegal.


Discrimiination is discrimination, you cant pick and choose what is and what isnt. Ridiculing someones weight is no different to ridiculing someone because they have no legs or because they are black

no dont speak sense its against the forum rules.

[Shardlake]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I'm actually curious :S

Evidently, the first thing that came up when I goggled to find out more about this, as i didnt know this was illegal...was this story http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news...d-off-jet.html.

So how come that airline isnt being prosecuted? :/

First off thats the NOTW so they sensationalise it

Second of all they made efforts to accommodate him by offering him two seats, they fulfilled their obligation. It is not their fault he turned it down.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

i did get infracted when i reported oddballmisfitsftw about it.

PMed you the real reason for that warning..even though it says on it

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shardlake

First off thats the NOTW so they sensationalise it

Second of all they made efforts to accommodate him by offering him two seats, they fulfilled their obligation. It is not their fault he turned it down.

http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/15022010/...fat-fly-0.html well theres another then, not from NOTW.

Surely it is classed as discrimination to say someone who is too fat has to pay for two seats?

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/15022010/...fat-fly-0.html well theres another then, not from NOTW.

Surely it is classed as discrimination to say someone who is too fat has to pay for two seats?

Nope its been to court under consumer regulations and also business practices. It is fair and reasonable for an obese person to be expected to reimburse the travel operator for two seats if they require two seats to accomodate them safely.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Nope its been to court under consumer regulations and also business practices. It is fair and reasonable for an obese person to be expected to reimburse the travel operator for two seats if they require two seats to accomodate them safely.

if they are even fatter, and require a half a row row (it does happen) do they have to pay for all the seats? or are they just not allowed to fly?

I didnt even know about any of this

[Shardlake]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/15022010/...fat-fly-0.html well theres another then, not from NOTW.

Surely it is classed as discrimination to say someone who is too fat has to pay for two seats?

Anyone can ring up and book a seat on a plane it is the person booking the ticket's responsibility to inform the agent of any special circumstances, it's illegal for them to ask.

A perfectly normal sounding man could ring and book a seat on a plane then turn up on the day of the flight in a wheelchair.. no special arrangements would have been made and that person will not be able to fly.

If you phone up and say can I book a seat on a plane to Corfu please, however I am morbidly obese, i'm in a wheelchair, I cant walk very far, I have to be near a toilet they HAVE to accomodate you.

The man in the first story clearly didnt inform them or point out that it would be a problem. They wouldnt have pointed it out to him as they would have been breaking the law. In that case they only told him when he was on the plane and it was plainly obvious that him being there was causing safety issues for him and other passengers.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

if they are even fatter, and require a half a row row (it does happen) do they have to pay for all the seats? or are they just not allowed to fly?

I didnt even know about any of this

Thats never been tested in UK courts but the natural extension of the decision is, if you require more than the average person you pay for what you use.

An example would be a person hospitalised and bed ridden, on being transferred by air, the health insurance of the invalid would pay for however many seat spaces they require for safe transport. Or the full costs of a small charter aircraft if the person needed to be transported that way.

The assumption of the passenger that the airline must carry them if they purchase a single seat is incorrect. The airline may do so out of goodwill, however if the person fails to declare any special requirements at the time of booking, that in itself is sufficient to invalidate any contract.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shardlake

The man in the first story clearly didnt inform them or point out that it would be a problem. They wouldnt have pointed it out to him as they would have been breaking the law. In that case they only told him when he was on the plane and it was plainly obvious that him being there was causing safety issues for him and other passengers.

But then surely...the example you gave before about someone going to book a flight and the operators not being able to tell them they are too fat(obviously in nicer words though)...is silly then?

Surely it would be so much easier all round if it was pointed out at the time of booking(if possible) so that this could be avoided :S

[yousoboo!]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

Actually everyone is to blame. Everyone creates the culture.

But everyone has become scared to say anything in case they get tagged with the 'racist' or 'homophobe' label. It's just daft.

If you want special treatment just say you're gay, or it helps if you're already non white.

For example that senior police officer who was non white, he got away with years of corruption because every time someone came forward he played the 'race card'. It got to the point that white officers were afraid to accuse him of anything, it only got out when he was filmed committing a crime - that is not right - and it's the way things have been going for a long time. The attitudes we see about BB are just a reflection of that - and it is wrong.

Actually I blame shami chakrabarti and Mrs Blair the human rights lawyer.

[tate]

i saw a big argument on this not so long back when Sky News reported the same airplane issue

It stemmed from the fact that if someone is so large that their bulk goes over their 1 seat, is it fair that the person sat next to them gets less of a seat for the same price due to the bulk of the obese person taking over part of their seat

Personally I thought the debate was a little OTT however both side did make valid cases about this and for certain if the obesity problems continue down the current trends then airlines will more than likely address this once they can ensure there will be no recourse

Anyway, I digress. I actually agree with the OP. I have been a lurker on this board for a long long time yet only started posting recently however I must admit, I tend to avoid certain threads for fear of being 'branded'. The transphobic line seems to appear on every single Nadia thread and I agree, it is tiresome. I saw many threads at the start of BB11 regarding 'blackpeople out 1st, racists etc' - in my mind those particular housemates were the correct people to go for their personality (or lack of on 1 case) traits however the PC mob were only too quick to scream racism.

The constant accusations do need to stop, some people just call it what it is without treading on eggshells, exactly what a public forum should be

[stonedape]

Fat-hate is somewhere in between "racism/homophobia" and totally valid, but it's impossible to tell who has a genetic condition or predisposition and who's just lazy. So I just wouldn't say ****.

As for seats on planes, obese folks unfortunately have a practical problem race or sexuality doesn't bring: physical size. Cry discrimination all day long, if they can't fit in one seat they can't fit in one seat. You're paying for square footage, you're paying for the weight of your luggage and yourself in the air. In addition, everyone else on the flight paid for a full seat and one unlucky person doesn't deserve 1/2 a seat or less because the bigger person doesn't want to pay more or have their feelings hurt.

It sucks, but it's a totally unavoidable practicality.

[ElProximo]

Fascinating because I have repeatedly been called a 'racist' or 'homophobe' or even ridiculing of my culture and skin colour as 'redneck' here,
yet,
I don't remember a certain mod warning anyone about it.

I don't want them to.
I would rather let them expose themselves AND then have the opportunity to correct them.
I don't want them censored.

The problem is the same mod has a personal agenda for their radical left-wing socially liberal political and personal beliefs and DOES feel free to censor and ban with prejudice and discrimination when its the 'other way around'.

As for a general overview of society let me suggest something:
- The BNP exists and is fueled and empowered by the 'PC Brigade Orwellian Lefties'.
Maybe some need to think about that.

[Shardlake]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

But then surely...the example you gave before about someone going to book a flight and the operators not being able to tell them they are too fat(obviously in nicer words though)...is silly then?

They only pointed it out to him when they had no other choice and his size was a potential safety hazard to other people who they are obligated to. He is at fault for not pointing out the special circumstances beforehand.

If you are in a wheelchair, book a regular seat on a plane, turn up on the day you cannot moan or complain when you are told you cant fly because you should have told them when booking.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shardlake

They only pointed it out to him when they had no other choice and his size was a potential safety hazard to other people who they are obligated to. He is at fault for not pointing out the special circumstances beforehand.

If you are in a wheelchair, book a regular seat on a plane, turn up on the day you cannot moan or complain when you are told you cant fly because you should have told them when booking.

Hmm yeah I guess.

Anyways, you learn something new everyday...thats turning out to be true

[Shardlake]

as a side note this has been a very interesting thread and i've only seen the first 20 mins of the HL show through the corner of my eye.

Nikki getting electrocuted though was hilarious.

As you were..