[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Dany somehow brought the Dothraki back to life and the fact that she lost so many resources over the course of Season 7 and the battle of Winterfell was ultimately meaningless. It was just terrible writing and the fact they had Cersei do nothing was insulting. This is a woman who will go to extremes few other people would just to survive and, like so many other characters, the writers decided to make her dumb in order to save themselves a bit of bother when it comes to her defeat.

To be fair, she has hundreds of thousands (or more? millions?) of Dothraki under her Khalasar, but only brought a fraction of them over to Westeros. I also don't think she even brought them all North to Winterfell... there are clearly far fewer riders in the initial charge against the dead than there were in the attack on the Highgarden caravan .

Where the poor writing comes in is that A) None of this was made explicitly clear and B) Holding back some of her forces for the upcoming war, whilst in hindsight the right choice, is another dick move .

Then again considering the recent "fast travel upgrades" in GoT, she might just have popped back across the ocean and collected some more Dothraki from the Khalasar .

[Toy Soldier]

Also... say what you will about S8 but... this is easily in competition for the best piece of TV soundtrack in history, surely...

Youtube video

From 4.40 is spectacular

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Dia.

Just because he said it, doesn't mean that its true. There's not much Jaime could have done to save King's Landing either way.

You've missed the point; this is his final farewell with Tyrion and they both know it, especially as Tyrion is committing treason to release him whilst already being on his final warning. There is no need for JL to start BS'ing, especially when TL is baring his soul about how much JL meant to him growing up. It just doesn't make sense to share your assumption. It's not even about JL being able to save KL, the fact that he says he doesn't care is the big issue, when we saw how he acted in the bath with Brienne when talking about it.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

You've missed the point; this is his final farewell with Tyrion. They both know it, especially as Tyrion is committing treason to release him whilst already being on his final warning. There is no need for JL to start BS'ing, especially when TL is baring his soul about how much JL meant to him growing up. It just doesn't make sense to share your assumption. It's not even about JL being able to save KL, the fact that he says he doesn't care is the big issue, when we saw how he acted in the bath with Brienne when talking about it.

To be fair on Jaime, he saved the city and what did they do for him in return, the looked down on him, called him the Kingslayer, took every opportunity they could. So when it came to a choice of escaping with Cersei and starting a new life, or saving the city again, of course he is going to choose Cersei, he's always put her above everything else. He was a redeemed in many ways, but his abusive relationship with Cersei was his main flaw. People don't get redemption arcs in real life, Jaime's story was supposed to reflect that.

I don't think Jaime didn't care about the city at all, it's just it didn't feel important to him any longer, and to be fair on him, he had no idea of the slaughter that was about to be commited, no one did.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Dia.

To be fair on Jaime, he saved the city and what did they do for him in return, the looked down on him, called him the Kingslayer, took every opportunity they could. So when it came to a choice of escaping with Cersei and starting a new life, or saving the city again, of course he is going to choose Cersei, he's always put her above everything else. He was a redeemed in many ways, but his abusive relationship with Cersei was his main flaw. People don't get redemption arcs in real life, Jaime's story was supposed to reflect that.

I don't think Jaime didn't care about the city at all, it's just it didn't feel important to him any longer, and to be fair on him, he had no idea of the slaughter that was about to be commited, no one did.

I do get that but what I struggle with is how Cersei had literally paid someone to kill him only a short time ago.. that's an awfully big thing for him to just forgive and sacrifice everything to save her. Would have been better if Bron was only supposed to kill Tyrion

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I do get that but what I struggle with is how Cersei had literally paid someone to kill him only a short time ago.. that's an awfully big thing for him to just forgive and sacrifice everything to save her. Would have been better if Bron was only supposed to kill Tyrion

Exactly.

The whole thing was weird and didn't fit at all with his turn around towards Cersei since literally Season 2, almost every interaction him and Cersei have had since Catlyn freed him to save Arya and Sansa was hostile

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Dia.

To be fair on Jaime, he saved the city and what did they do for him in return, the looked down on him, called him the Kingslayer, took every opportunity they could. So when it came to a choice of escaping with Cersei and starting a new life, or saving the city again, of course he is going to choose Cersei, he's always put her above everything else. He was a redeemed in many ways, but his abusive relationship with Cersei was his main flaw. People don't get redemption arcs in real life, Jaime's story was supposed to reflect that.

I don't think Jaime didn't care about the city at all, it's just it didn't feel important to him any longer, and to be fair on him, he had no idea of the slaughter that was about to be commited, no one did.

Again, that is irrelevant. It's not about whether he made an attempt to save the people, or was aware of what was about to happen, it's the fact he risked it all to save the people when he was at his most arrogant and at the height of his powers, as described in the bath scene, but now he just dismisses them and doesn't care.

Of course he only wanted to get to Cersei, but his attitude in the Tyrion scene bears no resemblance to the person he was at his worst, nevermind at his best. There's no way that can be seen as coherent storytelling.

[reece(:]

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[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Again, that is irrelevant. It's not about whether he made an attempt to save the people, or was aware of what was about to happen, it's the fact he risked it all to save the people when he was at his most arrogant and at the height of his powers, as described in the bath scene, but now he just dismisses them and doesn't care.

Of course he only wanted to get to Cersei, but his attitude in the Tyrion scene bears no resemblance to the person he was at his worst, nevermind at his best. There's no way that can be seen as coherent storytelling.

Yep, his attitude change was worse than Danys actually. It was definitely a "shock factor" thing but that doesn't work when it makes no sense and makes the character progression he made the last few years completely pointless

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by reece(:

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Not bad for looking out of a window.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yep, his attitude change was worse than Danys actually. It was definitely a "shock factor" thing but that doesn't work when it makes no sense and makes the character progression he made the last few years completely pointless

It's just a shame the way they've rushed these last 2 seasons. I'd have no problem with Jamie turning back to season 1 Jamie, just show us how and why he gets there.

Not only that, but to leave Brienne's last major scene as crying over a dude also cheapens her story too.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

It's just a shame the way they've rushed these last 2 seasons. I'd have no problem with Jamie turning back to season 1 Jamie, just show us how and why he gets there.

Not only that, but to leave Brienne's last major scene as crying over a dude also cheapens her story too.

Absolutely.

[arista]

Originally Posted by reece(:

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Yes HBO
showing Worldwide
SkyAtlanticHD for us.

A Great Actress.

[Smithy]

Me these last two weeks reading some of the stupid posts in here and not being able to say anything

I’m honestly so so so disappointed with how this show has turned out, like, I cannot fault the visuals the score or the acting (Emilia this season in particular has been INCREDIBLE) but the writing is just diabolical. These past two episodes in particular have just thrown out years of character development, lore and common sense out of the window, it just beggars belief and I cant understand how anyone can be happy with where the show is at this point.

Episode 4 was just.. dumb, there’s no other words... you have Brienne being reduced to some crying wench over Jamie Lannister. JAMIE deciding to back to Cersei despite the fact he’s JUST had a conversation with Bronn where he tells him he’s been hired to kill him, undoes 6 years of character development of him becoming a decent human being. Sansa being the daughter of “the most honorable man in Westeros” managing to keep a secret that her dad did for 18 years for all of ten minutes, still trying to sabotage Daenerys after she sacrificed half her damn armies for her, acting like a spoilt BRAT. Arya saying we’re family to Jon in one scene and then saying she’ll never return to the North again in another, which is it bitch?! Jon saying he can’t lie he has to be honorable when he managed to lie constantly when he was beyond the wall with wildlings in earlier seasons, apparently his honor is only important when it’s relevant for the story? Daenerys ENTIRE army NOT noticing Eurons fleet because they “FORGOT ABOUT IT” despite the fact they had talked about it in HER PREVIOUS SCENE. Rhaegal dying?! When that dragon is the smartest bitch in the whole of the seven kingdoms, got his ass out of there when the night king was throwing spears and during the long night, no WAY would he have just gone down like that. Not to MENTION the fact that in the books it literally says only ONCE has ever taken a dragon down with a scorpion the 500 years that they were in Westeros, and that was because they got a shot to the eye. Like...



And captain ****ing Pugwash does it with ease?! It’s just insulting to the viewers and the book readers, ESPECIALLY to then have Drogon turn around and become a weapon of mass destruction when they need him to be one during the battle in ep 5 where nobody can land a single hit? AND THEN ****ing Cersei having her main enemy at her gates and not firing on her? Or her dragon which is within range, or her brother who she had just hired somebody to kill, like??? HELLO??? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!!! What I think would have been better would have been to have Missandei hung from the front of Kings Landing for her Danys army (Grey Worm) to see, in a taunting manner, when they arrived for the battle, would have at least fueled grey worms reluctance to finish the battle when her death would have been so fresh.

Anyway OBVIOUSLY it ALL comes down to Daenerys arc in the show and despite people saying its been hinted at!! Mad Queen!! It just.. it hasn’t the creators of the show themselves have said countless times (especially in respect of the times people say she’s hinted at being mad) that she isn’t



I know I wouldn’t even be annoyed at her being “mad” had it been well written, but to go from risking her life for people she doesn’t know or who don’t like her to burning innocent civilians OVER BELLS just makes NO sense. The fact we don’t even see her face AFTER she decides to burn the city honestly only adds to that, the creators had no idea what they’re doing, would she be laughing maniacally (no, that’s not her) would she be crying (no because she’d stop) would she look angry? (Well why not just attack cersei?). Even GRIEF would be more understandable, if Rhaegal had survived until this episode and was then killed (I think Dezzy said that) it would have been justified (if the civilians had been involved in wheeling out some kind of mobile scorpion AFTER the bells had rung) but it just wasn’t and the whole well Targaryens are either side of the coin blah blah blah, her father was mad, but he literally heard voices in his head, he thought that if he bathed in wildfire he would turn into a dragon that’s not Dany in the slightest

People defending the writing or Dany going mad are just.. wrong there’s nothing more too it. Fleshed out and well written over two or three season it could have been excellent, but it wasn’t, and that’s reflected in the critical ratings, the last two episodes are two of the three worst rated episodes of the season and I haven’t see a single article praising it for being well thought out or written.

For the finale I guess we all know Daenerys is going to die, there’s no chance she’ll live, I’m guessing either Arya or Jon will kill her, possibly Dany kills Arya so Jon kills her, or Dany kills Jon so Arya kills her and then Sansa takes the throne. Either way it’s been an appalling ending to one of the greatest tv shows ever made

[Niamh.]

Can't argue with any of those points really Smithy

[Smithy]

[reece(:]

Preach it louder for the chicks at the back!

[Niamh.]

I just hope GRRM finishes the books so we can get a proper ending - not likely I know

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I just hope GRRM finishes the books so we can get a proper ending - not likely I know

In 2011 he had 400 pages because he pushed some chapters from DWD to WOW and 8 years later it’s still not finished...

I think/Hope WoW will come next year but I highly doubt he’ll finish ADoS

[Brother Leon]

I fully agree on the writing this season. Although, Dany going mad is not a bad decision, hell it will most likely happen in the books too. It’s just been executed so poorly. Even if it has been hinted at, just 2 episodes ago, she was fighting the undead and was a hero. It’s so rushed.

Honestly, the show should have stretched longer and showed her mental decline without Jorah . GRRM said the show needs about 10 season to be done justice and HBO were happy to do so. D&D wanted it done now though and it’s a real shame.

[DouglasS]

Dany was always going mad get over it. Yes it was rushed, it’s not just Dany going mad that’s been rushed it’s everyones story arcs.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

I fully agree on the writing this season. Although, Dany going mad is not a bad decision, hell it will most likely happen in the books too. It’s just been executed so poorly. Even if it has been hinted at, just 2 episodes ago, she was fighting the undead and was a hero. It’s so rushed.

Honestly, the show should have stretched longer and showed her mental decline without Jorah . GRRM said the show needs about 10 season to be done justice and HBO were happy to do so. D&D wanted it done now though and it’s a real shame.

It probably will, but at least it’ll be well written and fleshed our unlike what happened in the show, which wasn’t even madness it was a reaction from grief

D&D should have dropped out and let someone else take over, they’ve completely ****ed the show over just because they started getting big money offers from other studios

[Daniel.]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

Dany was always going mad get over it. Yes it was rushed, it’s not just Dany going mad that’s been rushed it’s everyones story arcs.

.

[Epic.]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

Dany was always going mad get over it. Yes it was rushed, it’s not just Dany going mad that’s been rushed it’s everyones story arcs.

So because everyone is rushed asf that somehow excuses it?

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by Epic.

So because everyone is rushed asf that somehow excuses it?

Makes it much much worse