[CharlieO]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

There has only been 2 World Wars, am I think I'm fairly safe in assuming that it was only 'touched upon' - and not gone into any depth.

Subject choices kick in at Secondary School. What about the other 50% of teaching that goes on prior to that. I was certainly taught history when I was about 8 or 9 - going back to Medieval times: how landowners became landowners, what tithes were, right up to local historical knowledge (and given that I studied in Scotland, England, Cyprus and Saudi Arabia - that applied to every school I attended). It wasn't just by chance that I was at a 'good' school.

Well i dont really know as im not an exam board or a history teacher but i do know they have to cover topics in depth. But i do agree with what you've previously said about people not wanting to do well or pushing themselves. im certainly not like that but i do know people who just seem to not care.

But im at quite a good school so what i think is bad would probably be nothing compared to a lot of teens in the uk.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I think you will find that the standard of intelligence are not as high as they were, the entry standards to Uni etc are far more flexible than ever they were. There are people who cannot use the written language correctly who attend Uni for all sorts of degrees that never used to exist.

It's great that you appear to have learned much - and if not taught in school, you must have had that influence to learn more about certain aspects of history: either via your family, friends - at least you sought the information out. Many don't, and think it has no relevance - that's more my point.

Sure it's a lot easier to get into some Universities now and there's a lot wider choice of degree but at the same time more and more people every year are applying for Oxford and they've certainly not lowered their requirements, they're making it harder if anything. I dunno, I'm just not sure I buy the whole "what are they teaching these days?" argument

Originally Posted by Omah

It seems to me that most "new" universities are just jumped-up technical colleges provising qualifications in cookery, hairdressing, PE and "media studies" .....



That much is true, but the standards of literacy, numeracy and communication are half what they were .....

Not sure why media studies is always considered so worthless, I think it's very relevant in the world we live in today

And do you have proof that standards of literacy & numeracy has declined? That sounds like bull

[Scarlett.]

To be honest it depends on the teachers, my history/geography teacher was passionate about both subjects, he didn't just stand there and explain stuff, he used pictures, videos films, took us on trips. Compare that to say...our maths teacher, he spent most of his time chatting to the "popular ones" in the class about our nights out, he took half of the year off, he never paid any attention to the rest of the class ect.

Saying all that, I prefered learning stuff by myself after I left school

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Sure it's a lot easier to get into some Universities now and there's a lot wider choice of degree but at the same time more and more people every year are applying for Oxford and they've certainly not lowered their requirements, they're making it harder if anything. I dunno, I'm just not sure I buy the whole "what are they teaching these days?" argument



Not sure why media studies is always considered so worthless, I think it's very relevant in the world we live in today

And do you have proof that standards of literacy & numeracy has declined? That sounds like bull

Depends what type of media studies you mean

I did media at college, but we filmed a lot of projects (complete with a lot of paperwork), we learned studio filming, animation, stop animation ect. then of course the boring stuff.

Then theres those media courses that consist of watching films and discussing them

[Stacey.]

Well if we're not taught about it, how are we meant to know?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by CharlieOsborne

Well i dont really know as im not an exam board or a history teacher but i do know they have to cover topics in depth. But i do agree with what you've previously said about people not wanting to do well or pushing themselves. im certainly not like that but i do know people who just seem to not care.

But im at quite a good school so what i think is bad would probably be nothing compared to a lot of teens in the uk.

You don't have to be a teacher or on an exam board though to have some basic overall knowledge of various aspects of history.

I'm not sure why or where much of the UK Educational system has gone wrong, but it's certainly not churning out many that the nation want to be proud of (note: that's my opinion, not a statement of fact!).

I agree with you Charlie, that there appears to be a tremendous amount of folk who simply 'don't care' and don't want to care either.

That said, there are a few Tibbers that really impress me with their knowledge and intellect on a variety of subjects - and some have astounded me learning of their 'young' ages: so it's not all bad!

Overall though: I don't see that being the norm.

[arista]

"I think the media doesn't help. People don't aspire to be scientists or pioneers any more, they want to be famous or attractive. "


Sure many are trying to get in the Fame Game
a few aspire to become pioneers though.


Life In The Fast Lane.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Stacey.

Well if we're not taught about it, how are we meant to know?

I guess you Google it

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Stacey.

Well if we're not taught about it, how are we meant to know?

Learn it by yourself, don't depend on others to teach you everything

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Stacey.

Well if we're not taught about it how are we meant to know?

Here's a novel thought - do it yourself. I didn't know how to operate anything other than a very very basic computer at work, didn't know anything about the internet 15 years ago, new buggar all, nothing about Windows, MS, digital cameras, uploading, downloading - knew not a thing: I went, bought a pc and taught myself.

[Stacey.]

Originally Posted by arista

I guess you Google it

When I Google something it's normally hard to find/the language they use is way out of my vocabulary

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Stacey.

When I Google something it's normally hard to find/the language they use is way out of my vocabulary

Well there is one person who can sort that out. Read: books, magazines, online articles - and not forum guff - proper reading whereby you come across a word, a phrase, and think, "What does that mean" - and you go look it up.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not sure why media studies is always considered so worthless, I think it's very relevant in the world we live in today

The world SOME of us live in - most of the world lives in poverty :

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...and-stats#src1

At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day in countries where income differentials are widening.

According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty.

Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names.

How will media studies help them ?

Originally Posted by MTVN

And do you have proof that standards of literacy & numeracy has declined? That sounds like bull

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...eracy-numeracy

Poor literacy and maths skills leave teenagers ill-equipped

Some 22% of 16- to 19-year-olds in England are functionally innumerate – meaning their maths skills are limited to little more than basic arithmetic, researchers from Sheffield University discovered. This means their numeracy levels are at or below an 11-year-old's.

This is a higher rate of innumeracy than many other industrialised countries, the study of literacy and numeracy rates over the past 60 years found.

Meanwhile, 17% of 16- to 19-year-olds are functionallly illiterate – meaning they cannot handle much more than straightforward questions. It is unlikely, or even impossible, that they will understand allusion and irony, the researchers found. Their reading standard is at or below an 11-year-old's.

The researchers found teenagers' average reading scores had risen between 1948 and 1960 and remained "remarkably constant" between 1960 and 1988. Between 1997 and 2004, scores had "gently" risen and then plateaued. But they discovered little improvement in teenagers' writing between 1979 and 2004.

Given the increasing amount of "media" availability in the last 20 years in the form of cheap computer and communication devices, no improvement in reading, writing and 'rithmetic represents a comparative decline and is an indictment of the electronic age .....

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Omah

The world SOME of us live in - most of the world lives in poverty :

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...and-stats#src1



How will media studies help them ?

What is the relevancy of that? Mathematics doesnt solve the issue of global poverty either but clearly the media absolutely dominates society today, it is so influential.

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...eracy-numeracy



Given the increasing amount of "media" availability in the last 20 years in the form of cheap computer and communication devices, no improvement in reading, writing and 'rithmetic represents a comparative decline and is an indictment of the electronic age .....

So reading has improved, and writing has but not by very much (and its only a short period of time), not declined as you were saying. That just goes to show standard of education has improved, even if it isnt as quick as you might like

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

In the past few days: I've read comments on FB, on the internet etc: not just unbelievable questions: but genuine shock at realising some of the very basics within the country that we live: a few examples:-

The Queen is married? Who to?
Duke of Edinburgh: does that mean he's from Scotland?
Where's the Queen Mum?
Diana had a title before she met Charles?
Princess Ann was married before?

I've read on here and on other forums, teens (and older), not knowing how to cook basic things, simple meals, not knowing how to use a standard non electric tin opener, people asking how to measure curtains (ie; they like the size of the ones that are up but don't know how to measure them!!!!) - I have to say: I am left completely and utterly astounded at some of the lack of everyday knowledge.

I have to wonder what it is schools teach these days.

It appears very little about the country we live in, the history of it, and very little about basic cooking, basic everyday life skills.

Unbelievable.

I agree with most of your observations.....Especially the last part about basic skills......Personally I don't think it matters if kids know about Royalty history........Very boring to most and mostly pointless....

However like you say basic skills are under valued in the education system.To much time spent on pointless academic stuff that will never be needed and only taught so as some can go to universiaty simply for the status symbol of being at university.......Rather than being educated with something usefull......

A lot more go to university true.......But do most deserve to be there when they can't even boil an egg......I think not......

Universities should be for the scientist, chemists doctors etc.....Not for pshcho babble and other pointless obscure subjects which can be taught at your local education evening classess or while walking the dog in the park.....

Kids need to taught how to cook how to do basic handman jobs and repairs. More importantly how to behave like resposible human being that don't abuse fellow human beings with drug taking and binge drinking episodes....

[BB_Eye]

There is no getting around the fact that the UK's education system is failing. People leave school not knowing who we fought in the Second World War, the official state religion of Great Britain, who Napoleon is and unable to find Britain on a world map. Plus the country's literacy rate is in decline. This should be a national scandal.

The problem is the powers that be are so short-sightedly utilitarian and see no value in things that won't make you a quick buck, they think that since most children won't grow up to be historians, philologists or archaeologists, then there is no point in teaching them anything more than the most elementary general knowledge (if that) and anything more than that is a luxury. Just look at how little people care that the coalition government is doing everything in its power to dismantle this institution.

Education is there to teach people to read, write and think.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by bananarama

I agree with most of your observations.....Especially the last part about basic skills......Personally I don't think it matters if kids know about Royalty history........Very boring to most and mostly pointless....

However like you say basic skills are under valued in the education system.To much time spent on pointless academic stuff that will never be needed and only taught so as some can go to universiaty simply for the status symbol of being at university.......Rather than being educated with something usefull......

A lot more go to university true.......But do most deserve to be there when they can't even boil an egg......I think not......

Universities should be for the scientist, chemists doctors etc.....Not for pshcho babble and other pointless obscure subjects which can be taught at your local education evening classess or while walking the dog in the park.....

Kids need to taught how to cook how to do basic handman jobs and repairs. More importantly how to behave like resposible human being that don't abuse fellow human beings with drug taking and binge drinking episodes....

Jesus wept

[joeysteele]

Mary Queen of Scots, my historical heroine is in fact in my view a very strong and relevant part of English Royal family history
She was a direct descendant of the Tudor dynasty, she therefore had a strong claim to the English throne, much more so than Elizabeth 1.

She was in my view, wrongly imprisoned and tried due to Elizabeth 1 and she was then murdered by Elizabeth 1.
Her strong relevance to English Royal Family history is further borne out by the fact her son James V1 of Scotland became James 1 of England after Elizabeth 1 death.

I do agree though that some things seem to have been withdrawn from Education that are important. How anyone can understand a culture or what formed a Nation without being taught its full History is hard to work out.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Jesus wept

Was it the kiss on the balcony that moved Him?

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

What is the relevancy of that? Mathematics doesnt solve the issue of global poverty either but clearly the media absolutely dominates society today, it is so influential.

Again, media only dominates our society, not much of the rest of the world, where it has no influence at all - let's look at the water issue, for example, a necessity for life :

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...and-stats#src1

Water problems affect half of humanity:

Some 1.1 billion people in developing countries have inadequate access to water, and 2.6 billion lack basic sanitation.
Almost two in three people lacking access to clean water survive on less than $2 a day, with one in three living on less than $1 a day.
More than 660 million people without sanitation live on less than $2 a day, and more than 385 million on less than $1 a day.
Access to piped water into the household averages about 85% for the wealthiest 20% of the population, compared with 25% for the poorest 20%.
1.8 billion people who have access to a water source within 1 kilometre, but not in their house or yard, consume around 20 litres per day. In the United Kingdom the average person uses more than 50 litres of water a day flushing toilets (where average daily water usage is about 150 liters a day. The highest average water use in the world is in the US, at 600 liters day.)
Some 1.8 million child deaths each year as a result of diarrhoea
The loss of 443 million school days each year from water-related illness.
Close to half of all people in developing countries suffering at any given time from a health problem caused by water and sanitation deficits.
Millions of women spending several hours a day collecting water.
To these human costs can be added the massive economic waste associated with the water and sanitation deficit.… The costs associated with health spending, productivity losses and labour diversions … are greatest in some of the poorest countries. Sub-Saharan Africa loses about 5% of GDP, or some $28.4 billion annually, a figure that exceeds total aid flows and debt relief to the region in 2003.

Originally Posted by MTVN

So reading has improved, and writing has but not by very much (and its only a short period of time), not declined as you were saying. That just goes to show standard of education has improved, even if it isnt as quick as you might like

Given the resources of our society, particularly "media" the fact that the standard of teenage achievement in the 3 R's has not significantly increased is equivalent to a decline - I refer you again to the fact that :

Some 22% of 16- to 19-year-olds in England are functionally innumerate – meaning their maths skills are limited to little more than basic arithmetic, researchers from Sheffield University discovered. This means their numeracy levels are at or below an 11-year-old's.

Meanwhile, 17% of 16- to 19-year-olds are functionallly illiterate – meaning they cannot handle much more than straightforward questions. It is unlikely, or even impossible, that they will understand allusion and irony, the researchers found. Their reading standard is at or below an 11-year-old's.

That is, despite 11-14 years of education in English schools, a FIFTH of young adults can just about work out their "pocket money" and "read" a comic .....

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Stacey.

When I Google something it's normally hard to find/the language they use is way out of my vocabulary

90% of the dictionary is out of your vocabulary

[Doogle]

Originally Posted by Smithy

90% of the dictionary is out of your vocabulary

[Stacey.]

Originally Posted by Smithy

90% of the dictionary is out of your vocabulary

Why do you quote me in like every thread?

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by Stacey.

Why do you quote me in like every thread?

[Vicky.]

I have never changed my own curtains

-Feels ashamed-

But yeah, I agree mostly with what you are saying, although I really dont think royal history is of that much importance tbh