[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by SoBig

No way Brian is the best player ever.

I can name at least 13 players that are much better than Chris and Brian.

Todd
Yul
Russell
Boston Robb
Fairplay
Parvati
Sash
Tom
Yau-Man
Rob Cesternino
Cirie (Probably the best manipulator ever)
Ozzy (Just based on competitions, dude literally won EVERY COMP that he played)

Why I don't like saying the best player has to be someone that has won are, most of the time the best player gets knocked out at the 3 spot ( for example Cirie, Lex, Rob, Yau-Man, Fairplay ) or the jury is just bitter and no matter what they won't vote for them. Bob barely beat Susie in Gabon. It was a 4-3 vote. Susie nearly won who did absolutely noting in the game, only because Randy changed his vote at the last minute Bob won.

EDIT: Hatch only beat Kelly, because he guessed a number between 1 and 10 that one of the jury members asked. Same with Brian over Clay. Wtf does having to guess a number have to do with winning survivor? Are you kidding me?

Greg would have voted for Hatch anyway. He was just ****ing around, like he did the whole time on the island.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by SoBig

Troy I can't even take you seriously. How the hell can anyone watch Russell Hantz in Survivor Samoa and think that he is a terrible player? Like seriously? You are letting your hatred for the man cloud your judgement. Even Jeff Probst the biggest Russell Hater out there has said numerous times that he is without a doubt one of the top 5 ever.

Jeff is not the biggest Russel hater. he loves the guy, and everything he has done for the program. If Jeff hated him, Russel never would have come back.

Russel is terrible. I don't even hate him, in fact I think he is great television. He is just terrible player. You aren't great, because people let you stay in the game because they know even Hitler could beat you in the final tribal council.

[SoBig]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

Russel is terrible. I don't even hate him, in fact I think he is great television. He is just terrible player. You aren't great, because people let you stay in the game because they know even Hitler could beat you in the final tribal council.

Oh please dude. Several players tried to get Russell Hantz out and they couldn't. In Samoa every effin person tried to get him out, but he kept knocking them off one by one. Same in Heroes VS Villians, Boston Rob tried to get him out TWO times and couldn't. Sandra tried multiple times before and after the merge and couldn't.

And this what you said about Russell last week.

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

I wouldn't call him the best(he's never won), but he's definitely one of them, especially from a strategic view point.

And now you are singing a different song about how he is terrible? Last week he was one of the best according to YOU and now you are saying that he is terrible?

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by SoBig

Oh please dude. Several players tried to get Russell Hantz out and they couldn't. In Samoa every effin person tried to get him out, but he kept knocking them off one by one. Same in Heroes VS Villians, Boston Rob tried to get him out TWO times and couldn't. Sandra tried multiple times before and after the merge and couldn't.

And this what you said about Russell last week.


And now you are singing a different song about how he is terrible? Last week he was one of the best according to YOU and now you are saying that he is terrible?

i don't even remember writing that. What was I thinking?

[SoBig]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

Jeff is not the biggest Russel hater. he loves the guy, and everything he has done for the program. If Jeff hated him, Russel never would have come back.

Follow Jeff on twitter. He hates him.

[SoBig]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

i don't even remember writing that. What was I thinking?

You asking me? You should know, since you posted that on page 2.

[Roy Mars III]

I followed Jeff on twitter for a bit, but the arrogance of his tweets got to much.

[SoBig]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

I followed Jeff on twitter for a bit, but the arrogance of his tweets got to much.

Yea, and dude is corny.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by SoBig

Troy I can't even take you seriously. How the hell can anyone watch Russell Hantz in Survivor Samoa and think that he is a terrible player? Like seriously? You are letting your hatred for the man cloud your judgement. Even Jeff Probst the biggest Russell Hater out there has said numerous times that he is without a doubt one of the top 5 ever.

I'm fine with that cause I've never been able to take you seriously. I'm not letting my hatred cloud my judgment, Russell has made countless mistakes along the way and will never win, no matter how many times he plays. He's the perfect person to get to the end with, like Natalie and Sandra saw. Lemme run through some of Russell's mistakes...

-Weakening his own tribe on purpose, resulting in only one Immunity Challenge win, resulting in being down in numbers in the merge
-Taking Natalie over Liz into the merge because she'll work well with the jurors (he says this himself, that he picked Natalie over Liz because she'll talk with the jurors a lot and get in with them, inherently becoming a Jury threat that he never saw coming.)
-Not even considering what Monica told him about how he needs to put people into the Jury that will vote for him (he just says "I don't think so," ignoring that you can't win the game by yourself.)

He's so stubborn that he doesn't realize any of this is his fault. He claims to have such a respect for the game, but wants to change the rules cause he didn't win. It's laughable. He'll never win.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by SoBig

LMAO @ Ethan being a better player than Lex.

Earl over Yau-Man is arguable, they are around the same level.

Ethan played a very solid game. His social game was nearly flawless: Tom, Kim, and Lex all would've taken him to the final two, and Ethan would've beat them all. Who else can say that they were in that position at the final four? Ethan didn't have much of a strategic game, but he didn't need one. Lex took all the bullets and turned some off with his arrogance. Ethan used him a smokescreen, assuring that he was never the first target. I'm not saying Lex played a bad game, but Ethan played it better. You get all caught up in who makes the big moves, but what you need to realize is that a good social game can override the efforts of a power hungry, cutthroat, bridge-burning player. Just ask Natalie about that one.

[SoBig]

You basically look down upon players that make strategic moves and praise players that basically just float through the game and ride coattails. Its shocking that you don't have Jordan as the greatest Big Brother player. She plays the exact type of game that you are a fan of.

I have more respect for players like Evel Dick and both Danielles over players like Jordan and Adam that sit back and don't make any moves.

The reason Lex didn't win Survivor Africa was because he became ill the day of the final immunity challenge. That girl picked Ethan over Lex, because she thought that it was going to be easier to beat him. She even said so. It was not because she liked Ethan better.

Google the "Greatest Survivor players" and any list from 09 till now will have Russell in the top 5. Thats just the way it is, whether you like it or not. He is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest survivor player by most people that watch Survivor.

[SoBig]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

I'm fine with that cause I've never been able to take you seriously. I'm not letting my hatred cloud my judgment, Russell has made countless mistakes along the way and will never win, no matter how many times he plays. He's the perfect person to get to the end with, like Natalie and Sandra saw. Lemme run through some of Russell's mistakes...

-Weakening his own tribe on purpose, resulting in only one Immunity Challenge win, resulting in being down in numbers in the merge
-Taking Natalie over Liz into the merge because she'll work well with the jurors (he says this himself, that he picked Natalie over Liz because she'll talk with the jurors a lot and get in with them, inherently becoming a Jury threat that he never saw coming.)
-Not even considering what Monica told him about how he needs to put people into the Jury that will vote for him (he just says "I don't think so," ignoring that you can't win the game by yourself.)

He's so stubborn that he doesn't realize any of this is his fault. He claims to have such a respect for the game, but wants to change the rules cause he didn't win. It's laughable. He'll never win.

So he made mistakes, so what? No one has ever played the perfect game and no one ever will.

Russell went as far as he did, because he took control of the tribe. Majority of the time in Survivor the player that's calling the shots, make it to the final 3 at very least. If he didn't do what he did both times, he would been gone in the first couple of weeks.

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

He'll never win.

People said the same thing about Boston Rob.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by SoBig

You basically look down upon players that make strategic moves and praise players that basically just float through the game and ride coattails. Its shocking that you don't have Jordan as the greatest Big Brother player. She plays the exact type of game that you are a fan of.

I have more respect for players like Evel Dick and both Danielles over players like Jordan and Adam that sit back and don't make any moves.

The reason Lex didn't win Survivor Africa was because he became ill the day of the final immunity challenge. That girl picked Ethan over Lex, because she thought that it was going to be easier to beat him. She even said so. It was not because she liked Ethan better.

Google the "Greatest Survivor players" and any list from 09 till now will have Russell in the top 5. Thats just the way it is, whether you like it or not. He is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest survivor player by most people that watch Survivor.

On Rob C.'s podcast he had people vote for the top 20 surivor players(I think about 700 voted) The list was:

Spoiler:

1. Parvati Shallow
2. Boston Rob
3. Sandra Diaz-Twine
4. Richard Hatch
5. Rob Cesternino
6. Cirie Fields
7. Todd Herzog
8. Yul Kwon
9. Tom Westman
10. Brian Heidik
11. Russell Hantz
12. Jonny Fairplay
13. Chris Daughtery
14. J.T. Thomas
15. Stephen Fishbach
16. Yau-Man Chan
17. Amanda Kimmel
18. Earl Cole
19. Ethan Zohn
20. Ozzy Lusth

I think it's a pretty good list bar a few.

[SoBig]

No way in hell is Ethan in the top 20. Replace him with Terry Deitz or Lex. Richard Hatch is way too high. Same with Sandra. Overall the list isn't bad. Just the order that they are in is the problem.


Parvati as the best ever? No way. She was never the best player in any of her seasons. In the Cook Islands, Yul and Ozzy were clearly on another level. In Fans Vs Favorites, Cirie was by far the best player. She dominated from start to finish. If they had kept it as a final 3 instead of a final 2, Cirie would have won hands down. In Panama, Cirie would have won if she knew how to make a freaking fire. Cirie was the best player in 2 seasons. Pavati's best case for being the best player was in Heroes Vs Villians, but I still give Russell the edge because he controlled who was voted out and who was not. Parvati only made it far when she had support from other great players(FvF Amanda and Cirie, HvV Russell).

Off topic. In Heroes Vs Villains why were Stephanie, Candice and Cirie on the Heroes side? Did they forget how Stephanie played in Guatemala? She backstabbed and lied to EVERYONE that was in her alliance. She was also very arrogant.

Candice flipped over to the other tribe the first chance she got. Betrayed everyone in her alliance.

Cirie was the most cut throat person in Fans Vs Favorites. She was the mastermind behind every single plan in the women's alliance. She was just as much as a "Villain" as Pavatti was.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by SoBig

You basically look down upon players that make strategic moves and praise players that basically just float through the game and ride coattails. Its shocking that you don't have Jordan as the greatest Big Brother player. She plays the exact type of game that you are a fan of.

I have more respect for players like Evel Dick and both Danielles over players like Jordan and Adam that sit back and don't make any moves.

The reason Lex didn't win Survivor Africa was because he became ill the day of the final immunity challenge. That girl picked Ethan over Lex, because she thought that it was going to be easier to beat him. She even said so. It was not because she liked Ethan better.

Google the "Greatest Survivor players" and any list from 09 till now will have Russell in the top 5. Thats just the way it is, whether you like it or not. He is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest survivor player by most people that watch Survivor.

No I don't. All I said is that someone with a good social game has the ability to overpower a "strategic mastermind," it happens time and time again. Jordan didn't play that type of game because she didn't even play a game. You're pretty thick if you think what I said has anything to do with how Jordan (or Adam, since you brought him into it too) played the game. I never said strategic games aren't good, I just said that some people can overcome them.

You're wrong about that. Kim knew she wasn't going to win against Ethan or Lex, but she voted Lex off because she felt that Lex felt entitled to winning. Even if Lex won the final Immunity Challenge, he would've gone to the end with Ethan and most likely have lost. Ethan would've had Kim J, Tom, and Kelly's votes automatically, and then Lex would've only had Brandon's. Frank/Kim P/Teresa would've been more likely to vote for Ethan, but perhaps Lex could've pulled it off with an extremely impressive performance at Tribal Council, but the odds were heavily stacked against him. I'm not trying to say Lex was a bad player. He would've won easily against Kim J or Tom. However, he was 100% set on going with Ethan, which wouldn't have done him any good.

And so? Do I care what Google says? I'm sure if you Google "Greatest Big Brother players" Dick comes in the top 5, but that means nothing. Google has no credibility. Just because random lists you find online say that Russell's a great player doesn't mean that he is. Editing does wonders, people only think Russell was so great because of the constant "I'm Russell Hantz!" confessionals and the fact that Natalie (and Sandra too, to some degree) were ignored by the editors. Just because a lot of people can't see past that doesn't mean they're right.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by SoBig

So he made mistakes, so what? No one has ever played the perfect game and no one ever will.

Russell went as far as he did, because he took control of the tribe. Majority of the time in Survivor the player that's calling the shots, make it to the final 3 at very least. If he didn't do what he did both times, he would been gone in the first couple of weeks.

Uh if you're inherently the "best player" that means you make few, if any mistakes I'd need to take off my shoes to count all the mistakes Russell's made, and that's just in Samoa.

[BBfanUSA]

We should add survivor all stars to this list the way this is going because this is way off topic

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by SoBig

No way in hell is Ethan in the top 20. Replace him with Terry Deitz or Lex. Richard Hatch is way too high. Same with Sandra. Overall the list isn't bad. Just the order that they are in is the problem.

: joker: at Terry even being considered top 20, that such a joke. Lex definitely isn't top 20 either. Here's how I would rank them...

1. JT
2. Tina
3. Brian
4. Richard
5. Todd
6. Tom
7. Danni
8. Earl
9. Chris
10. Cirie
11. Sandra
12. Rob
13. Parvati
14. Natalie
15. Yul
16. Amber
17. Stephen
18. Vecepia
19. Yau Man
20. Ethan

Originally Posted by SoBig

Parvati as the best ever? No way. She was never the best player in any of her seasons. In the Cook Islands, Yul and Ozzy were clearly on another level. In Fans Vs Favorites, Cirie was by far the best player. She dominated from start to finish. If they had kept it as a final 3 instead of a final 2, Cirie would have won hands down. In Panama, Cirie would have won if she knew how to make a freaking fire. Cirie was the best player in 2 seasons. Pavati's best case for being the best player was in Heroes Vs Villians, but I still give Russell the edge because he controlled who was voted out and who was not. Parvati only made it far when she had support from other great players(FvF Amanda and Cirie, HvV Russell).

I don't know why you think Ozzy was some great player who was "clearly" on another level. But in terms of people who played better than Parvati in Cook Islands, I would say Yul, Candice, Ozzy, Becky, and Adam in that order. Micronesia, Cirie was better than Parvati. And I don't know why you think Russell was that amazing in Heroes vs. Villains either. I'd say he was the worst player of the final six, but Colby and Rupert weren't much better. Jerri, Parvati, and Sandra, though, were definitely better.

Originally Posted by SoBig

Off topic. In Heroes Vs Villains why were Stephanie, Candice and Cirie on the Heroes side? Did they forget how Stephanie played in Guatemala? She backstabbed and lied to EVERYONE that was in her alliance. She was also very arrogant.

Candice flipped over to the other tribe the first chance she got. Betrayed everyone in her alliance.

Cirie was the most cut throat person in Fans Vs Favorites. She was the mastermind behind every single plan in the women's alliance. She was just as much as a "Villain" as Pavatti was.

Because of editing. It's really not that complicated. Yes, they did forget how Stephenie played in Guatemala, because they choose to ignore that season completely. She's better remembered as the heroine in Palau. Candice's is contradictory. Even though Yul/Ozzy/Becky/Sundra got a very forced and fraudulent positive edit, Probst said that Candice's mutiny was heroic because she was returning to her allies. And then Cirie is again about editing, just like Stephenie. Parvati embraces her cutthroat "black widow" style and gets a negative edit, Cirie is bubbly and giggles a lot, she gets a positive edit.