[OperaMan]

Hi TiBB
I wanted to come here and get your opinion/comments on a few serious questions about the entire BB situation and here basically:

1. Does anyone feel they were fooled or 'cheated' by last season's epic 'FINAL BB!' which featured many a 'last chance' and 'last hurrah episodes' and 'end of era' stories and hype and press... ...only to find it returned as usual with only a slight delay.
Asking this in light of the 5 choice to present.. well.. exactly the same series in the same house, presenters, former HMs, narrator etc and really, if you didn't see the number 5 on the television guide you would just think Brian is filling in for Davina but otherwise its just exactly the same series but 2011

2. Is there a glaring disconnect between the casting and the public in light of Kerry and Paddy?

Consider this - Celeb BB is the version where we especially accept and expect the glamour girls, young hot celebs, models and the superficial 'looks over substance'.
And yet, despite that and despite gearing full-on to the youngest and most dance club audience... ... The public went for the 53 year old man and (though a former glam girl) the now beleaguered full-time mother of four children who battles weight gain and running a house full of kids.

Yet - this years casting went full-on for the 20-something single good-looking models and players with fantastic abs and glam girl bods? Not to mention a Pam Anderson.
*and we have the token 'Josie' in Alex and then our Leo Sayer Jr. small and kooky kurly kamp jewish boy comedian.

3. (and maybe 1,2,3 all related) but has 5 made a terrible mistake by not only making an exact clone/continuation but they even seem to have played it safer going (if anything) for MORE typical, more standard-issue, more predictable BB choices.
If anything they just picked more gorgeous but superficial 20-somethings, use more nightclub music and playing up the standard petty jealousy angles etc.

The problem being this: Sure, they did not alienate that core BB audience of superfans (surely left-over) however they end up with what is exactly the same program that was losing ratings year after year.
With nothing new or different to draw anyone else in. Or even just stop losses.

Sorry that is a lot of question/comment/elaboration but feel free to just choose any of the angles you like.

[Semtex]

I miss live feed summat rotten this series, but, even though us feeders saw what an awful Cow the eventual winner last year was I (me included) didn't vote.
I think that was the problem, the LF contingency watched and united in making for a great to place to be a community, but didn't vote.
The Twitterati, didn't see what a complete cocksnot Josie was & just saw the edits.
But she still won!
This will happen again this year, without live feed.
This will be worse.

[Valdora]

I wasn't here last year but I find it hard to imagine Josie being a "cow." But like you said I only saw the highlights. Fill me in? Even then, everyone has there bad side. I guess if it's true I am just POed that we never got to see it. We saw the bad side of Nadia, Anthoy and Pete and they still won afterall.

[starry]

Those who vote manically aren't necessarily the main audience for the program and I think it is a huge mistake of the broadcaster's to think that. And they don't apparently make much money from the voting now anyway.

[Valdora]

Originally Posted by starry

Those who vote manically aren't necessarily the main audience for the program and I think it is a huge mistake of the broadcaster's to think that. And they don't apparently make much money from the voting now anyway.

Imagine if they created an online voting system. It would get more votes but the money for c5 would be dire. Text voting is very 2006.

[fruit_cake]

without LF they can do and show what they like and we have no way of knowing the truth

[Kazakh]

It is the demography that Desmond/Endemol et al have chosen, Club 18-30, dim and non threatening (in an intellectual sense). The HMs reflect what is left of the audience!

[joeysteele]

No, not lost the plot at all.

Channel 4 was the only one fooling the public, they hoped it was the end of BB,they didn't think anyone would else would in reality go for it and televise it again after they dropped it.
So Channel 4, presuming that, went all out for the final BB on its channel as if it was a Royal member retiring.
Channel 4 fooled and let the public down,not Channel 5.

The choice of housemates for CBB would have been limited, depending on availability, the deal was only signed in April. They though, (Channel 5), got it back on TV by August, that was not a lot of time for celebrities they may have been approached to alter their commitments.I believe stronger celebrities will be in the next one.


I think again a very good mix of housemates are in BB too this year again after a short time of getting it going on TV again.
As to ratings, they are really good for Channel 5 and that is how it has to be perceived now, whether BB is a massive success on Channel 5 or not will only be seen by how the ratings are averaged out this year and then to compare them with what it gets in next years CBB and BB on Channel 5.

I see this CBB and BB series as the guinea pig runs by Channel 5, if they are at the end of it averaging 2 million viewer ratings overall,it will be seen as a success and lots to build on.Learning also how to likely improve on that and the series.

I expect they will bring in more footage of the series next year,probably something on the lines of live feed too and that will enhance the series too and help it remain a success for Channel 5.

They haven't lost the plot, maybe they should have waited until 2012 to bring it back but I am glad they didn't,they still have a strong audience to go forward with and build on.

Channel 4, let the BB followers and the public down by dropping it, it has far worse rated things on its channel that it sticks with all the time.
Channel 4 thought it was 'its' series and no one could ever screen it again likely, they were the losers and even with these viewing figures at present for BB on Channel 5, it still would have been beating the socks off most of what remains transmitted on Channel 4 now too.

[starry]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Channel 4 was the only one fooling the public, they hoped it was the end of BB,they didn't think anyone would else would in reality go for it and televise it again after they dropped it.
So Channel 4, presuming that, went all out for the final BB on its channel as if it was a Royal member retiring.
Channel 4 fooled and let the public down,not Channel 5.

I'm not really that sure that Channel 4 thought it would be the end of Big Brother. A show with an established audience like this one has isn't about to just disappear suddenly.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by starry

I'm not really that sure that Channel 4 thought it would be the end of Big Brother. A show with an established audience like this one has isn't about to just disappear suddenly.

Personally I really think they did, they thought,the company in a spot of bother,Other Channels are lot smaller channels,especially with BBC and ITV with no interest at all,they couldn't see it going anywhere at all,likely never believed any deal could be reached.

That's my take on it, obviously I cannot prove it.but Channel 4 made not only a great thing of the final series on Channel 4 but as to it was the final series full stop.

[OperaMan]

Originally Posted by Kazakh

It is the demography that Desmond/Endemol et al have chosen, Club 18-30, dim and non threatening (in an intellectual sense). The HMs reflect what is left of the audience!

And that is surely the safest bet for short-term salvage and in that sense I can understand it.
The problem I saw here - even THAT core audience seems to be slowly but surely losing interest.
Meanwhile, IF you were the many mainstream casual viewers who were losing interest because of the '20-something shallow models in a nightclub' direction of BB then you are just more likely to disappear.

But I suppose this is all it comes down to - they would rather be assured this season (and next) get that 1 million strong core than take any chances at all.

Channel 4 was the only one fooling the public, they hoped it was the end of BB,they didn't think anyone would else would in reality go for it and televise it again after they dropped it.
So Channel 4, presuming that, went all out for the final BB on its channel as if it was a Royal member retiring.
Channel 4 fooled and let the public down,not Channel 5.

Yes i think it was the 'promise' of a final Big Brother that might have left some feeling duped. Never mind that - the promise of the end of this incarnation.
Only to have the exact same program appear next season with Josie chuckling she must give back her 'Final Winner' crown and really the only difference being Davina retired and the editing seems a little off.

A number of people mentioned the LF problem and somehow trying to replace LF/online forums with Facebook/Twitter social media.
I'm not sure what to make of this? It seems to go further in alienating anyone but the youngest, shortest-attention span, mobile phone audience?

[Nemo123]

Originally Posted by Kazakh

It is the demography that Desmond/Endemol et al have chosen, Club 18-30, dim and non threatening (in an intellectual sense). The HMs reflect what is left of the audience!

Thumbs up! "The HMs reflect what is left of the audience!"


I think the show's worn out but there are some (viewers) who don't care that it is, and they are its audience. It was once fresh, now it's reheated.

I think the question in post #1 is cleverer than the answer.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Nemo123

Thumbs up! "The HMs reflect what is left of the audience!"


I think the show's worn out but there are some (viewers) who don't care that it is, and they are its audience. It was once fresh, now it's reheated.

I think the question in post #1 is cleverer than the answer.

All very true but the most appalling thing is the wailing that viewers should watch this season because next season will be GREAT!

[GypsyGoth]

1. Nope I don't feel fooled or cheated, although at this time last year I was sure the show would be gone for at least a couple of years. But I now look back on it as c4 saying goodbye to bb, and the show is bigger than the station that airs it.

2. It is ironic that maybe Louise is probably more of a celeb that the cbb winner. However I think this is a great cast for this bb series. Yes a lot of them are very media aware and they're not average people from the street, but I think the show needs this kinda slick appeal even if it's somewhat manufactured.

3. Last night's highlights ep was one of the best shows of bb. So c5 are making a superior show than c4. And even though the ratings will never be that great, to c5 it'll be a big success and it'll also get the channel exposure in the press.

[Nemo123]

The OP says the public picked Paddie. I dunno. I suspect his own traveller community voted for him. I think the OP has made some rather obviously spurious points, however eloquently.

[OperaMan]

Originally Posted by Nemo123

The OP says the public picked Paddie. I dunno. I suspect his own traveller community voted for him. I think the OP has made some rather obviously spurious points, however eloquently.

Well lets talk about points:

We suppose any one of them has a hometown, family and friends and fans and so for example Essex or Amy fans.

Fan bases are part of the public. Suppose blacks decided to vote for Lucien (just for the sake of argument) then that's part of the public.

Travelers make up a tiny % of the population. I don't know they are especially known to mega-multi-vote either.

However I think this is a great cast for this bb series. Yes a lot of them are very media aware and they're not average people from the street, but I think the show needs this kinda slick appeal even if it's somewhat manufactured.

Okay but I think we are asking 'why is that needed'?
Well, not even so much asking 'why' because we can suppose it was to get a solid grip on that specific demographic (which might include you) but really 'will it work?'.

I wasn't aware of ratings but if they are doing well then maybe 5 was right (at least for now) to aim directly at that left-over core youth fanbase.

What I'm wondering - do they do that at the peril of permanently losing any possibility of growth or even sustainability?

Mind you - they very often say the advertisers are happier with 1 million 16-22 year olds than they are with 2 million adults? So maybe 5 does know what its doing after all?

[Omen]

Paddie won because the traveller community, thrilled to have one of their own recognised this way, voted like loonies for him. It was a big deal because they are usually outcasts. Also, there may be a certain cache in being a gypsy in the wake of C4's "Gypsy Wedding".

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by OperaMan

Hi TiBB
I wanted to come here and get your opinion/comments on a few serious questions about the entire BB situation and here basically:

1. Does anyone feel they were fooled or 'cheated' by last season's epic 'FINAL BB!' which featured many a 'last chance' and 'last hurrah episodes' and 'end of era' stories and hype and press... ...only to find it returned as usual with only a slight delay.
Asking this in light of the 5 choice to present.. well.. exactly the same series in the same house, presenters, former HMs, narrator etc and really, if you didn't see the number 5 on the television guide you would just think Brian is filling in for Davina but otherwise its just exactly the same series but 2011

2. Is there a glaring disconnect between the casting and the public in light of Kerry and Paddy?

Consider this - Celeb BB is the version where we especially accept and expect the glamour girls, young hot celebs, models and the superficial 'looks over substance'.
And yet, despite that and despite gearing full-on to the youngest and most dance club audience... ... The public went for the 53 year old man and (though a former glam girl) the now beleaguered full-time mother of four children who battles weight gain and running a house full of kids.

Yet - this years casting went full-on for the 20-something single good-looking models and players with fantastic abs and glam girl bods? Not to mention a Pam Anderson.
*and we have the token 'Josie' in Alex and then our Leo Sayer Jr. small and kooky kurly kamp jewish boy comedian.

3. (and maybe 1,2,3 all related) but has 5 made a terrible mistake by not only making an exact clone/continuation but they even seem to have played it safer going (if anything) for MORE typical, more standard-issue, more predictable BB choices.
If anything they just picked more gorgeous but superficial 20-somethings, use more nightclub music and playing up the standard petty jealousy angles etc.

The problem being this: Sure, they did not alienate that core BB audience of superfans (surely left-over) however they end up with what is exactly the same program that was losing ratings year after year.
With nothing new or different to draw anyone else in. Or even just stop losses.

Sorry that is a lot of question/comment/elaboration but feel free to just choose any of the angles you like.

Hi and welcome first of all.

Now...re all of the above.

I think there is an rather large element to an light entertainment show that you seem to have not quite grasped the concept of. It's entertainment. It's not some deadly serious conspiracy going on.

As for the BIB. Deary me.

[Kazakh]

Dear Nemo & Fingers, My theory is that there will always be a CORE audience, even if it just showed The Potters Wheel. But BB/Endemol are into selling and revenue Look at the sponsors, Clearasil, a teen product. The bosses have eschewed anything that takes risks by serving up the same dull fare, wannabe freaks.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Kazakh

Dear Nemo & Fingers, My theory is that there will always be a CORE audience, even if it just showed The Potters Wheel. But BB/Endemol are into selling and revenue Look at the sponsors, Clearasil, a teen product. The bosses have eschewed anything that takes risks by serving up the same dull fare, wannabe freaks.

Isn't Clearasil so last year? But wait, who did they get this year????

[BJ]

I'm a core viewer from the very first series. I'm one of the "old farts" and must say I'm not at all disappointed by the cast this year. I think it may turn out to be a classic.

For several years now I have been saying that BB would be improved by having young singles on the show instead of the token oldies. I don't think there's been a worse HM than Carole who took all the fun out of BB when she was there. Although I'm in a similar age bracket to Caole I didn't identify with her in any way as I don't with the cast this year. However I know who I'd rather spend 10 weeks watching.

My only gripe is the LF one. I paid for it last year and thought it was great value. I just wish I had the same option for BB12.

[Kazakh]

I thought Carole good on going in but soon became disillusioned. Leslie was a mistake (IMHO) but more mature types (D Laud) and Jonty gave a good vibe at times!

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by OperaMan

Okay but I think we are asking 'why is that needed'?
Well, not even so much asking 'why' because we can suppose it was to get a solid grip on that specific demographic (which might include you) but really 'will it work?'.

I don't know, I can't speak for a demographic, but for myself, yep the show has me hooked already.

What I'm wondering - do they do that at the peril of permanently losing any possibility of growth or even sustainability?

The show will never have mass appeal, and probably the only way to get new viewers to to aim the show to a younger audience.

Mind you - they very often say the advertisers are happier with 1 million 16-22 year olds than they are with 2 million adults? So maybe 5 does know what its doing after all?

The show will be one of the most successful for c5, so yea I do think they know what they're doing.

Also they can add stuff that they removed from the show to refresh bb in later seasons, like having people from outside of england, and bringing back 24hour live feed coverage.