[Omah]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16229921

The other side of the coin, eh .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-16239056

Detectives investigating the stabbing of a rail ticket inspector at East Tilbury station, Essex, have arrested two people.

British Transport Police arrested a 19-year-old man and a 17-year-old boy on Sunday in Tilbury, two days after the incident on a C2C train.

The males were arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm.

The inspector, 42, needed three stitches to the stab wound and was released from hospital on Saturday.

[Omah]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/t...calls.16215980

THE man who shot the YouTube video showing a student being manhandled off a ScotRail train has had to go ex-directory after receiving prank calls.

Ian Hems's video had attracted nearly two million views as of yesterday. It has made headlines across Britain and further afield and has also sparked a debate about the extent of citizen-power.

The video shows 19-year-old Sam Main apparently being lifted from his seat and physically ejected from the Edinburgh to Perth ScotRail service after he swore at a train conductor.

Alan Pollock – a 30-year-old finance manager dubbed the "big man" online – intervened after the teenager refused to leave the train at Linlithgow, then blocked his attempt to re-enter the carriage and eventually sat down to cheers from other passengers.

Mr Hems captured the action on his Nokia mobile phone and uploaded it to YouTube. But he did not expect the video to go viral and become an internet hit.

The 27-year-old IT teacher, said ruefully yesterday: "If you ever upload a film to YouTube, don't put your actual name on it. I've had to phone BT and go ex-directory because my phone has gone red-hot from about five in the morning with prank calls.

"I was only there [on the train] and filmed it. Big deal. What's the problem? I'm not the star of this show. I don't get why people are getting at me on this one."

It was only the day after he posted the video online, when it made the front page of Reddit, a popular news website featuring user-generated content, that Mr Hems realised how popular it was becoming.

He admits to being slightly baffled by the fuss and said: "I don't really get what it's all about, to be honest."

Speaking about the incident yesterday, Mr Hems – who has been interviewed by British Transport Police – said he was sitting bored on the train, "mucking around with the phone", when it started.

He said: "I started filming purely because the train conductor had gone backwards and had stopped the train after checking everyone's tickets.

"There was a bit of abuse going on. I thought the transport police were about to come and throw the student off the train.

"I was thinking it was going to be funny, but I didn't expect the big man to step up like that. It has caused a bit of a stir.

"I'm firmly on the big man's side because he did what everyone wanted to be done."

Mr Hems added: "Sam is basically saying that he tried to explain, and wasn't given a chance to explain [about the ticket]. But he was given lots of time to explain.

"He was just being offensive - He could have avoided it if he'd just got a ticket. He got a taxi home afterwards. He clearly had money."

Mr Hems said that after the incident everybody "took their headphones off, and started chatting". He added: "I've never been on a train journey where everyone starts talking to each other - it was very weird.

"Most folk were on the side of [Alan Pollock]. It was the right thing to do. The conductor was pretty much in shock."

Well, Ian Hems was there and he should know .....

[InOne]

Why are you posting all this crap in here, it's nothing to do with the topic

[Josy]

Omah can you stop posting articles from different incidents in here please, they have nothing to do with this thread topic.

[Omah]

after refusing to leave

Originally Posted by ~HO~HO~HO~

Omah can you stop posting articles from different incidents in here please, they have nothing to do with this thread topic.

Nothing to do with the "passenger/conductor incident" on Scotrail ?

I beg to differ - the post at 09:24, to which the previous FM presumably refers, is specifically to do with the "passenger/conductor incident" on Scotrail .....

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/t...calls.16215980



Well, Ian Hems was there and he should know .....

Yeah he was, and he is entitled to his opinion. But thats all it is, his opinion. Unless of course this IT teacher is some sort of expert on the law of the land.

Incidentally:

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-16239056

Love the red highlights. Nothing like shooting yourself down is there?

Talk about an "own goal"!

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Omah

19 year old 'fare dodger' thrown off train by passenger after refusing to leave



Nothing to do with the "passenger/conductor incident" on Scotrail ?

I beg to differ - the post at 09:24, to which the previous FM presumably refers, is specifically to do with the "passenger/conductor incident" on Scotrail .....

I never posted specifically about any article or said they were all off topic I asked you to stop copy/pasting articles that have nothing to do with incident that's been debated in here, like the 3 you posted before the one that was on topic...

[Omah]

Originally Posted by ~HO~HO~HO~

I never posted specifically about any article or said they were all off topic I asked you to stop copy/pasting articles that have nothing to do with incident that's been debated in here, like the 3 you posted before the one that was on topic...

As I pointed out in one of those, the articles were included to show the "other side of the coin", i.e. to give perspective .....

If the purpose of this thread is merely to score points by analysing a video clip ad infinitum then I am happy to leave well enough alone .....

[Pyramid*]

Interesting little snippet that has come to light.

Main Junior does indeed seem to be coming over more and more of a lout and a yob at every turn. I so want this CCTV clip to be made available: let's see how much of a charming young man his father believes his son really is then......

But CCTV footage from the train has shown a new side to the story, which is missing from the clip which became an online sensation.

Filmed earlier in the journey, it is understood to show student Sam Main trying to trip up the white-haired conductor as he goes about his work.

After a heated argument with the man, the youth is seen putting his leg out into the train aisle to block his way, with the next frame appearing to show the conductor forced to step over him to leave

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1h7JKRVZR

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Interesting little snippet that has come to light.

Main Junior does indeed seem to be coming over more and more of a lout and a yob at every turn. I so want this CCTV clip to be made available: let's see how much of a charming young man his father believes his son really is then......

Yeah, Ian Hems has always maintained there was several minutes of "aggro" from the beanie yob before he started recording the incident - I'm pleased that his account seems to be confirmed .....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Omah

Yeah, Ian Hems has always maintained there was several minutes of "aggro" from the beanie yob before he started recording the incident - I'm pleased that his account seems to be confirmed .....

Far as I remember, he said there had been a lot of verbals from yobbo - but I cannot recall him saying he saw the conductor being tripped up or his way being blocked: hence why it would be interesting to see this CCTV footage. It could have been right at the start of all the palava before anyone notice, and only has come to light now the conductor is being questioned in detail about it.

[Shasown]

Wonder if this "CCTV" footage does in fact exist or is the Mail just trying to keep the debate over this story for as long as they can milk it.

"But CCTV footage from the train "

"The unnamed conductor too has stayed silent...."


"The only person to have spoken out is Mr Main, ....."

"A ScotRail spokesman said: 'Our inquiries into the circumstances surrounding the incident continue.
'As British Transport Police has received and is investigating a complaint of assault, it would be inappropriate to comment further.' "

No source named or even mentioned about this "CCTV"

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Wonder if this "CCTV" footage does in fact exist

Probably :

First ScotRail set to install 2,000 CCTV cameras on train fleet

Published on Tuesday 20 September 2005 01:03

CRIMINALS on trains will have nowhere to hide after First ScotRail yesterday announced that its fleet is to be equipped with the most sophisticated and comprehensive security camera system on Britain's railways.

Up to five state-of-the-art CCTV cameras will be installed in each carriage, capable of recording high-resolution images from every angle.

A total of 2,000 cameras will see almost every First ScotRail train covered within two years.

The multi-million-pound system will be the most hi-tech on the rail network, with a total of 230 trains equipped - more than any other operator.

The move builds on Scotland's pre-eminence in station security, where more than half have CCTV cameras - the highest proportion in Britain.

First ScotRail's entire diesel fleet and almost all its electric trains will be covered.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottis...leet_1_1096590

Petards First ScotRail Project
Location: United Kingdom
Customer: First Group
Project Type: Refurbishment
Solution: On-Board and Forward-Facing
Value: £2 million +
Year: 2005/6 and 2007/8

Project Overview

1st November 2011

In 2005, when First ScotRail was looking at on-board surveillance options, they turned to Petards to provide the most sophisticated, reliable and comprehensive security camera system available.

Up to five state-of-the-art CCTV cameras were installed in each carriage, capable of recording high-resolution images from every angle. A total of 2,000 cameras saw almost every First ScotRail train covered within two years.

Today, the multi-million-pound system remains one of the most hi-tech on the rail network, with over 230 trains equipped.

First ScotRail's entire diesel fleet and almost all its electric trains were covered in the project.

http://www.petards.com/transport/cas...l_project.aspx

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Wonder if this "CCTV" footage does in fact exist or is the Mail just trying to keep the debate over this story for as long as they can milk it.

"But CCTV footage from the train "

"The unnamed conductor too has stayed silent...."


"The only person to have spoken out is Mr Main, ....."

"A ScotRail spokesman said: 'Our inquiries into the circumstances surrounding the incident continue.

'As British Transport Police has received and is investigating a complaint of assault, it would be inappropriate to comment further.' "

No source named or even mentioned about this "CCTV"

sometimes its better not taking things out of context.....

"The unnamed conductor too has stayed silent...." ......the remainder of that being: "He is on leave from work and is being investigated by Scotrail over his actions". I would be pretty certain that ensuring he do as he's told by him employer during this period would over-ride his need to speak to the media.

"The only person to have spoken out is Mr Main, ....." the remainder of that being: "He last week launched a litany of excuses for his behaviour, blaming his long day, diabetes and hungry state, as well as claiming he had been sold the wrong ticket for his return journey"

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to work out that the yob and his father (who also spoke out, along with his 'unnamed uncle') - are out for one thing: not justice: but money.

I suspect that with the matter being investigated, and the conductor's revelations about being tripped up etc: hence why there has been attention given to CCTV footage: and if this is the case and it does exist - I hope it all comes crashing around the ears of a certain 19year old student who goes by the name of Sam Main.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omah

Probably :



http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottis...leet_1_1096590

Yeah funny old thing living in Scotland I have used Scotrail. I am aware that most trains do in fact have some CCTV coverage.

I think the point I was making has gone right over your head.

How does the Mail know whats on any CCTV footage of the incident? Who gave them details? Given the Transport police would have immediately secured any footage from the train as soon as a complaint was made. BT Police are governed by the same rules about discussing evidence being reviewed in ongoing enquiries as noraml police forces. Normally the Mail is quite keen to quote sources for their stories.

There is one other point to consider, there have been numerous cases in the past since the introduction of CCTV in both buses and trains in Scotland where the actual footage taken from security CCTV was next to useless, either because of the positioning of the equipment meant the area of the incident was covered or the standard of the recording was such that no worthwhile information could be garnered from the film.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Shasown

I think the point I was making has gone right over your head.

Probably

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yeah funny old thing living in Scotland I have used Scotrail. I am aware that most trains do in fact have some CCTV coverage.

I think the point I was making has gone right over your head.

How does the Mail know whats on any CCTV footage of the incident? Who gave them details? Given the Transport police would have immediately secured any footage from the train as soon as a complaint was made. BT Police are governed by the same rules about discussing evidence being reviewed in ongoing enquiries as noraml police forces. Normally the Mail is quite keen to quote sources for their stories.

There is one other point to consider, there have been numerous cases in the past since the introduction of CCTV in both buses and trains in Scotland where the actual footage taken from security CCTV was next to useless, either because of the positioning of the equipment meant the area of the incident was covered or the standard of the recording was such that no worthwhile information could be garnered from the film.

Pretty patronising comment there and pretty unnecessary tbh. There is every chance that the media have been tipped off.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Pretty patronising comment there and pretty unnecessary tbh. There is every chance that the media have been tipped off.

Well you would know all about unnecessary and patronising comments.

There is every chance as well the story is BS, simply used by the Mail to keep the debate in the public eye.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Well you would know all about unnecessary and patronising comments.

There is every chance as well the story is BS, simply used by the Mail to keep the debate in the public eye.

I don't however profess to be a fountain of knowledge on all subjects in the manner that you appear to think you are - regardless of what the subject matter is.

You have no idea if the newpaper article has any supporting truth behind it or not - but are happy to berate another fm for having their opinion - when all Omah did was show a link to CCTV coverage introduced by Scotrail- not just for you but for others on the thread who may not be familiar with Scotrail.

I too live in Scotland, have used Scotrail but it doesn't make me some expert on their CCTV operations - yet somehow your own post in reply to Omah very much gives the impression that you think you expertly qualified in the running of Scotrail, British Tranport Police and everything else in between.

You are like everyone else on this thread: going by what is being reported: and gleaning from that what we all individually chose to from the reported stories.

[Shasown]

Here, think this article in the Record puts things into perspective you appear to have overlooked it in your search for more info on this story

Sheriff gives his legal view on the 'Big Man' train incident

Dec 15 2011 By Charles Gall

THE guy who intervenes is out of order because it’s really a matter between the ticket collector and the student.

The ticket collector would be within his rights to say to this chap, “Right, you’ll need to get off this train because your ticket has expired”.

I’m not in any doubt the ticket collector would be entitled to use reasonable force if this guy wasn’t prepared to go.

The collector, I’ve absolutely no doubt, would decide not to bother doing that because that’s the sensible thing to do.

These collectors, I am fairly certain, have a direct line to the British Transport Police. He has it within his powers to lock the doors of the train until the police arrive.

If, for example, the ticket collector had decided that he was going to try to get rid of this chap, and use reasonable force as a result, then our bold hero would still not be entitled to intervene until such time as the collector was assaulted.

In that event, any reasonable citizen would be entitled to take a step forward and say, “Look, sunshine, just cool it here”. That would be the approach.

There are all kinds of situations that would arise before one would think of actually just lifting the guy and throwing him off the train.

I suspect the ticket collector is probably under instruction not to use force at all, even “reasonable force”.

I can well understand if the investment banker is charged with assault. They would be entitled to charge the man if the student has complained.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-23636128/

Would you like fries with that...

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Here, think this article in the Record puts things into perspective you appear to have overlooked it in your search for more info on this story



Would you like fries with that...

I'm sure another sheriff would give an opposing view if the Daily Record asked around.

I'll wait to see what actually happens in respect of any charges, and if anyone is actually prosecuted.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Snowball

I'll wait to see what actually happens in respect of any charges, and if anyone is actually prosecuted.

Really?

Appears you forgot one basic rule of law!

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Snowball

I'm sure another sheriff would give an opposing view if the Daily Record asked around.

I think "Sheriff" is just a pseudonym for an old hack .....

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omah

I think "Sheriff" is just a pseudonym for an old hack .....

Yeah I have to admit that could be a possibility.

Heres another one though, if you look to the right of the article you will see an area marked as tags, in that area is the name Douglas Cusine, he has commented on a few things for the Daily Record recently.

Oh and he was a sheriff in Aberdeen, recently retired.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yeah I have to admit that could be a possibility.

Heres another one though, if you look to the right of the article you will see an area marked as tags, in that area is the name Douglas Cusine, he has commented on a few things for the Daily Record recently.

Oh and he was a sheriff in Aberdeen, recently retired.

ie: in other words: has no oomph therefore can be quoted saying whatever the Daily Record would like him to - for a fee.