[Livia]

Originally Posted by kefln

They twins promote choice in an often double standard world.

They openly sell an image of sex, but they don’t, from what I can see, treat it like anything other than a job. They could have giggled and blown kisses across the room at the boys, basically lived up to the reputation of being brainless t*ts on legs. But they haven’t. Playboy was their job. In the past few days they have admitted that there were aspects that they liked and aspects that they didn’t. They’ve admitted that they have no problem in getting naked for the camera and doing a photoshoot, which is about selling sex. However, on a one to one basis, they like to be treated with a bit of respect. And not having some drooling leach asking them if their boobs and bums are real…

Drooling men are an aspect of the job. Without those drooling men they'd be doing some other job you don't need any training for but one which pays a lot less.

In your previous post you said they were examples of female power, almost like you thought they were role models. I do not respect them simply because they were born with good looks, which were tweaked by a cosmetic surgeon to enable them to sell sex for Heffner. No one just gets respect. Respect has to be earned... and they haven't earned mine. And where the housemates are concerned, they aren't alone.

[Bojangles]

Kirk and Frankie are making me feel sick everytime the twins come into view they start playing with their scrotes.The twins are right to feel disgusted.They are not the true version of a British male.
They shouldn't have to be subjected to this disgusting behaviour.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Bojangles

.....They shouldn't have to be subjected to this disgusting behaviour.

No... I bet it properly upsets their delicate sensibilities. Or... their whole career is based around men handling their own private parts so they should be used to it.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by kefln

That sounds like the average Big Brother contestant...

They are their for our titillation, they are there for our enjoyment, they are there for our viewing pleasure. Basically, according to yourself, anyone who has ever appeared on a "reality show", of any sort in any country, should have no self respect...

Bit harsh.

Difference being that the twins are so up themselves that they think they are something they are not. No-one is entitled to demand respect, it has to be earned. They need a reality check. And try not to put words into other FM's mouths. The likes of glamour models who go on to BB usually make no bones about wanting to do the photo shoots in Nuts etc after. Nowt wrong with that, what you see is what you get. At least they don't put themselves on some fantasy pedestal as if they're unobtainable, like the twins believe they are, when we all know that they're anybody's for the right price.

[Bojangles]

Originally Posted by Livia

No... I bet it properly upsets their delicate sensibilities. Or... their whole career is based around men handling their own private parts so they should be used to it.

But not infront of them.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Bojangles

But not infront of them.

For an extra $50 they'd probably do it for them.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Livia

Drooling men are an aspect of the job. Without those drooling men they'd be doing some other job you don't need any training for but one which pays a lot less.

In your previous post you said they were examples of female power, almost like you thought they were role models. I do not respect them simply because they were born with good looks, which were tweaked by a cosmetic surgeon to enable them to sell sex for Heffner. No one just gets respect. Respect has to be earned... and they haven't earned mine. And where the housemates are concerned, they aren't alone.

Drooling men are part of the job, its expected. As are the questions about the playboy mansion. From what I can see so far they seem open enough about who and what they are. However that does not make them soulless prostitutes that do not deserve a modicum of respect – which is the comment that made me stand up and become involved in this conversation in the first place.

And speaking of jobs that you get paid a lot for, but don’t need any real training, but wouldn’t be involved in if you didn’t have “something” about you - acting, football players, rugby players, singers, dancers, wives and girlfriends of sports personalities… in fact the entire celeb world is full of highly paid, uneducated, good for one thing, personalities. Don’t single out two people just because you, or others, don’t like their particular type of fame. Because lets face it, most female BB contestants end up doing nuts, or zoo, or some such sh*t lads mag…

And again, whether you like it or not, these girls are role models to some. They mightn’t be the best type of role models to have, but there are worse. Amy Winehouse seems to be a national treasure – she was a drunk, a druggie, was married to a guy that’s in and out of prison, she could barely put two words together without slurring, but could sing…when sober…which didn’t seem to be very often. The Gallagher brothers seem to be role models – read all of the above about Amy, but add in violence and abuse too. And do I have to mention Jordan?

Its an unfortunate truth that everyone is entitled to an opinion, to pick their own role models and that certain people will earn a huge amount of money simply because they can smile at a camera with their personals hanging out…

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kefln

Drooling men are part of the job, its expected. As are the questions about the playboy mansion. From what I can see so far they seem open enough about who and what they are. However that does not make them soulless prostitutes that do not deserve a modicum of respect – which is the comment that made me stand up and become involved in this conversation in the first place.

And speaking of jobs that you get paid a lot for, but don’t need any real training, but wouldn’t be involved in if you didn’t have “something” about you - acting, football players, rugby players, singers, dancers, wives and girlfriends of sports personalities… in fact the entire celeb world is full of highly paid, uneducated, good for one thing, personalities. Don’t single out two people just because you, or others, don’t like their particular type of fame. Because lets face it, most female BB contestants end up doing nuts, or zoo, or some such sh*t lads mag…

And again, whether you like it or not, these girls are role models to some. They mightn’t be the best type of role models to have, but there are worse. Amy Winehouse seems to be a national treasure – she was a drunk, a druggie, was married to a guy that’s in and out of prison, she could barely put two words together without slurring, but could sing…when sober…which didn’t seem to be very often. The Gallagher brothers seem to be role models – read all of the above about Amy, but add in violence and abuse too. And do I have to mention Jordan?

Its an unfortunate truth that everyone is entitled to an opinion, to pick their own role models and that certain people will earn a huge amount of money simply because they can smile at a camera with their personals hanging out…

The difference between the twins and Amy Winehouse, and honestly I'm shocked I have to explain this, is that, aside from being a drug addict, she was a talented musician, singer and songwriter. The same goes for the Gallaghers (although I'm not a fan). They have talent. They don't just get their bits out. It's fine if testosterone levels dictate that males think the twins are fine. That's what they're there for... But talented, they ain't.

I do not think the twins are better or worse than other reality show contestants. They have a few years left before the money and interest dries up, so I hope they invest wisely or they find some rich bloke to keep them.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Angus

Difference being that the twins are so up themselves that they think they are something they are not. No-one is entitled to demand respect, it has to be earned. They need a reality check. And try not to put words into other FM's mouths. The likes of glamour models who go on to BB usually make no bones about wanting to do the photo shoots in Nuts etc after. Nowt wrong with that, what you see is what you get. At least they don't put themselves on some fantasy pedestal as if they're unobtainable, like the twins believe they are, when we all know that they're anybody's for the right price.

Speaking of not putting words into other peoples mouths...after four days you've assessed the twins, their motives, their beliefs and how they perceive themselves.

Yet they have done nothing that we haven't seen before. They haven't been exceptionally b*tchy. They haven't been rude. They haven't been excluding themselves from the group. They haven't been throwing temper tantrums or camera hogging.

From what has been seen so far, they have talked about the mansion and their "career". They have hung out with the other HM's during the day. They have spent a little time alone. They have gotten involved in the tasks. And they have partied with the other HM's.

The worst thing that they have done is given their personal opinions on Kirk and Frankie. Which is no different that Michael giving his opinion on them, Kirk giving his opinion about them, alot of the HM's b*tching about Andrew...the list goes on...

[BadBoyMcCoy]

I think after their career choice they should expect guys to sometimes speak to them like they're sex objects. But they shouldn't be criticized for telling guys to f off if the're bothering them.

I can imagine it would be annoying and a bit creepy after a while.

I'm enjoying watching them, I find them quite interesting.

[Bojangles]

The twins are photographic models,they are are not stupid either.It's their job to look good,but they don't have to put up with sexual abuse, true celeb's wouldn't abuse them like Kirk and Frankie the nonentities in the house.

[fruit_cake]

I don't really feel strongly at all about the twins either like or dislike so far, just meh.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Livia

The difference between the twins and Amy Winehouse, and honestly I'm shocked I have to explain this, is that, aside from being a drug addict, she was a talented musician, singer and songwriter. The same goes for the Gallaghers (although I'm not a fan). They have talent. They don't just get their bits out. It's fine if testosterone levels dictate that males think the twins are fine. That's what they're there for... But talented, they ain't.

I do not think the twins are better or worse than other reality show contestants. They have a few years left before the money and interest dries up, so I hope they invest wisely or they find some rich bloke to keep them.

They aren’t talented – they were born looking a certain way and grew up in an environment that allowed them to justify taking their tops off for a living. Chances are they will be very rich by the time they are my age.

I watched some TV over the Christmas and found out that last year some footballer lit fireworks in his house during a party – yet this dolt gets paid millions to kick a ball around a pitch.

I never liked Amy Winehouse. I never really rated her as a musician. Every time I heard her sing she made no sense, slurring into the microphone. But there are a lot of people who respected her talent and I respect that.

I have no problem with people saying that these girls are making a living off mags like Playboy, hell they don’t have a problem with it, why should I? I have no problem with them having an opinion of others in the house, its not like this is a new thing.

I do however have a problem with people calling them soulless prostitutes that don’t deserve respect. Which is kinda the point I keep making…

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Bojangles

The twins are photographic models,they are are not stupid either.It's their job to look good,but they don't have to put up with sexual abuse, true celeb's wouldn't abuse them like Kirk and Frankie the nonentities in the house.

Frankie is a boy. He's had 15 mins of fame and suddenly finds himself sitting beside playmates. Tact isn't exactly what we are expecting.

Kirk is a c*cky rich boy, who has a little bit of fame and really thinks that complimenting a girl on her chest is charming. But not to worry his dads rich so he can make up for everything by spending cash.

The twins are in BB to raise their British profile, not to pander to the ego's of those around them.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

I don't really feel strongly at all about the twins either like or dislike so far, just meh.

They are ok, you wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. But you have to appreciate how easily they dealt with Kirk...

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by kefln

And speaking of jobs that you get paid a lot for, but don’t need any real training, but wouldn’t be involved in if you didn’t have “something” about you - acting, football players, rugby players, singers, dancers, wives and girlfriends of sports personalities… in fact the entire celeb world is full of highly paid, uneducated, good for one thing, personalities. Don’t single out two people just because you, or others, don’t like their particular type of fame. Because lets face it, most female BB contestants end up doing nuts, or zoo, or some such sh*t lads mag…

Being a footballer requires a huge amount of training and skill

[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by kefln

They are ok, you wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. But you have to appreciate how easily they dealt with Kirk...

there are two of them versus one of him, it's not a fair fight. I don't like BB putting twins or family members in, especially if they are not seperated and put in competition with each other imo

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kefln

They aren’t talented – they were born looking a certain way and grew up in an environment that allowed them to justify taking their tops off for a living. Chances are they will be very rich by the time they are my age.

I watched some TV over the Christmas and found out that last year some footballer lit fireworks in his house during a party – yet this dolt gets paid millions to kick a ball around a pitch.

I never liked Amy Winehouse. I never really rated her as a musician. Every time I heard her sing she made no sense, slurring into the microphone. But there are a lot of people who respected her talent and I respect that.

I have no problem with people saying that these girls are making a living off mags like Playboy, hell they don’t have a problem with it, why should I? I have no problem with them having an opinion of others in the house, its not like this is a new thing.

I do however have a problem with people calling them soulless prostitutes that don’t deserve respect. Which is kinda the point I keep making…

I've never said they were soulless.

Everything else is covered, I think, in my previous posts.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Livia

I've never said they were soulless.

Everything else is covered, I think, in my previous posts.

Never said it was you...just giving my reasons for responding!

[kefln]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

there are two of them versus one of him, it's not a fair fight. I don't like BB putting twins or family members in, especially if they are not seperated and put in competition with each other imo

But only one made the comment...and you could say that Kirk has back up from Frankie...

Not to mention that putting family members and girlfriends in the house in the past hasn't always worked in a persons favour. Faye nearly went into meltdown and things did not go so well for Rex when his girlfriend came in.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Being a footballer requires a huge amount of training and skill

So does being a doctor, but I know which gets paid more.

[Jords]

I think after a while the arrogance might grate but for now theyre hilarious LOL

[KenCasanova]

Originally Posted by Bojangles

The twins are photographic models,they are are not stupid either.It's their job to look good,but they don't have to put up with sexual abuse, true celeb's wouldn't abuse them like Kirk and Frankie the nonentities in the house.

Frankie and Kirk are not abusing them, it's banter albeit a bit immature. You must be extremely sensitive to call what they're doing sexual abuse. Talking of sexual abuse was it not Karissa that was getting her arse whipped on film by her then actor boyfriend? Or didn't you get that far into the sex tape?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by kefln

So does being a doctor, but I know which gets paid more.

Well yeah football is a far more lucrative and profitable industry

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kefln

Well that statement just about killed the whole idea of female power didn't it?

Isn't there a current movement called the "Slut Walk"? That explaining, or excusing, rape by referring to any aspect of a woman's appearance is just plain wrong? That women, like men, should be allowed to wear and say what they want without being judged as sluts, or *****s?

There is a woman in the BB house that is "famous" for sleeping with her husbands brother, but the twins, who are essentially glamour models, are prostitutes. My head kinda hurts on that one - and before anyone knocks me, I like Nat, she seems sweet.

But in a house where the most intelligent thing Frankie has said is that looking at the girls makes him want to wank. And where Kirks idea of a chat up line - "nice tits, are they real?", the playboy twins are soulless and shouldn't be given respect....the mind boggles...

(Wow! What a rant! )

I suggest you stop right there. Don't try to infer that I was making out girls deserve to be raped because they dress provocatively or whatever. That WASN'T my point.

If you re-read my post you'll see I said they were just like prostitutes because as playboy bunnies they are there to be paid for Hugh Hefner's perverted pleasure. Anyone who thinks they lived in his mansion and have not had any sexual contact with him must be naive. THAT'S where my prostitute comparison came in. They shagged an 80 odd year old man to get by in life and earn money from horny masturbating little boys like Frankie Cocozza, so it's a bit rich when they say Frankie's attitude towards them is disrespectful as they disrespect themselves in the public eye having done what they've done.

The calendars and magazines they pose for are there PURELY for the gratification of people who find those images arousing, like porn.

Completely different to a model in a clothing catalogue or advert which has an entirely different purpose.

Don't turn my point into a generalised viewpoint of women in general, or even models in general.

And, yes, I agree what a rant.