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waterhog · 14-09-2012, 08:08 AM

stoptober - will it work ? 14.09.12

its a good name,
the TV advert did sober,
but what is so special,
why the month of October.
what about drink and drugs,
why just on smoke,
do that not realize,
people are drinking excessive and s--rting c-ke.
you have the music industry,
where smoke is "cool",
in films they seem to focal,
its a directors best tool.
but i have to be fare,
because smoking was like a mixed rub-ix cube,
i used to be able to go in pubs,
it was even permitted on the tube.
work places have altered,
transport is forbidden,
why is it still thriving,
even if health facts are not hidden.
raise the price,
make it £20 - £30 a packet,
but the government tax income will drop,
and that's as disgusting to no as the illegal smoke racket.

( i was inspired to write this poem after seeing the new governments campaign to get us to stop smoking. dose anyone feel it is a bit strange that the price dose not rocket considering 1. it is so bad for your health. 2. it cost the nhs millions. 3. it can not be good for the earth. i must say anyone who buys the illegal smokes really needs to research what goes into them. but what irritate me the most is the fact we no all the 3 things i have just said yet the government still don't make the price rocket and that is purely
because they make millions for the smoke trade - which should bring shame upon our government. ps i have sent this to the current conservative party. but please feel free to copy and paste my poem to them asking for the price of smokes to rise as the more people that lobby the more likely they are to act on it. thank you so much for anyone who bothered to read or do this. i really appreciate this.)

joeysteele · 14-09-2012, 08:44 AM

Well as a non smoker I have no problem with people smoking if they wish to.
I don't like the way smokers are ostracised and I have seen some really silly things as to smoking bans, such as, in a bus shelter with open front and sides, having a sticker in saying smoking is not permitted in here.
However they can take 2 steps to the side of the shelter and then they can smoke there.Bonkers.

Also it is not illegal to smoke and buy cigarettes in the UK,I am not offended by people smoking at all.
There may be token success for a week or 2 or for the month of October but as Christmas starts to loom and the pressures of that start,I am pretty sure those who smoked before will again.

There are many things people do that are a bit of a burden on the NHS, not just smokers.
So I cannot go along with this demonising attitude as to smokers and the only thing I partly agree with is, if Govts were really serious as to stopping people smoking,they would have the prices rocket.
However I think that is also unfair on moderate smokers anyway.

For instance,alcohol causes many more propblems for the NHS, also as to abuse and sometimes violence.More should be done as to that, never mind smoking.

The cost of cigarettes are already rather high, also as was indicated in the OP, if everyone who did smoke stopped overnight, the treasury would near fall into panic and then everyone else would find other things rising bigtime to cover that shortfall.

Kizzy · 14-09-2012, 09:10 AM

Excellent as always joe

and a great topic. The government have hiked the price a lot over recent years and it's not worked as well as that should. People are still smoking and the added stress of cigs being expensive impact on already financially pressured society.

A pack of fags is well over the hourly rate for a minimum wage earner and they are addictive so something has to give...
As an ex smoker I can remember the feeling of panic when I saw the pack was almost empty, luckily I never had to make a decision between food, heating or cigs.

Maybe this is the problem, more families are living in poverty as they prioritise cigarettes higher?

Livia · 14-09-2012, 09:18 AM

Last year tobacco tax brought in £12 billion to the treasury. I wonder where all that money is going to come from when everyone gives up smoking?

Kizzy · 14-09-2012, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well as a non smoker I have no problem with people smoking if they wish to.
I don't like the way smokers are ostracised and I have seen some really silly things as to smoking bans, such as, in a bus shelter with open front and sides, having a sticker in saying smoking is not permitted in here.
However they can take 2 steps to the side of the shelter and then they can smoke there.Bonkers.

Also it is not illegal to smoke and buy cigarettes in the UK,I am not offended by people smoking at all.
There may be token success for a week or 2 or for the month of October but as Christmas starts to loom and the pressures of that start,I am pretty sure those who smoked before will again.

There are many things people do that are a bit of a burden on the NHS, not just smokers.
So I cannot go along with this demonising attitude as to smokers and the only thing I partly agree with is, if Govts were really serious as to stopping people smoking,they would have the prices rocket.
However I think that is also unfair on moderate smokers anyway.

For instance,alcohol causes many more propblems for the NHS, also as to abuse and sometimes violence.More should be done as to that, never mind smoking.

The cost of cigarettes are already rather high, also as was indicated in the OP, if everyone who did smoke stopped overnight, the treasury would near fall into panic and then everyone else would find other things rising bigtime to cover that shortfall.

Great point joey, maybe oct was a silly time to run this, stoptember has a better ring to it too, the weather was ok, christmas seems ages away... Much better, oh well they tried haha.
As for the finance issue maybe the conservatives have decided to put people before money?...yes, of course im joking!

joeysteele · 14-09-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Last year tobacco tax brought in £12 billion to the treasury. I wonder where all that money is going to come from when everyone gives up smoking?

Exactly, strong point as always.

Kizzy · 14-09-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Exactly, strong point as always.

It is a strong point but not a very constructive one... Don't help people to stop smoking because they make us lots of money?
Thats a very unscrupulous attitude in my opinion.
The government could make money elsewhere, maybe some kind of 'wealth tax'?

Josy · 14-09-2012, 12:00 PM

No it wont work, if people want to stop smoking they are perfectly capable of making the decision them selves, no need for all these campaigns imo.

joeysteele · 14-09-2012, 12:03 PM

If people want to be helped to stop smoking then fair enough,there are GP practices and help all over for people to try to stop if they want that assistance.
If smoking is so bad then why doesn't some Govt make it illegal to buy,sell or smoke cigarettes.

As with alocohol, people make choices in their lives.The strong point was that as was said, 12 billion lost in revenue will leave a massive hole in the treasury's income from duty, nothing was said about not helping people stop smoking legally if that is what they want to do.

No one forces people to smoke and if they do then they shouldn't in my view be forced not to if they don't want to stop.
The strong point was that if everyone stopped smoking a massive hole would be left as to the Govt's income, that is a fact and those funds would have to be found elsewhere,I doubt the Govt would then look for all the smokers to try to get them to smoke again if it happened.

Of course help should be there for smokers to stop if they want to and it already is in fact.

Kizzy · 14-09-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

If people want to be helped to stop smoking then fair enough,there are GP practices and help all over for people to try to stop if they want that assistance.
If smoking is so bad then why doesn't some Govt make it illegal to buy,sell or smoke cigarettes.

As with alocohol, people make choices in their lives.The strong point was that as was said, 12 billion lost in revenue will leave a massive hole in the treasury's income from duty, nothing was said about not helping people stop smoking legally if that is what they want to do.

No one forces people to smoke and if they do then they shouldn't in my view be forced not to if they don't want to stop.
The strong point was that if everyone stopped smoking a massive hole would be left as to the Govt's income, that is a fact and those funds would have to be found elsewhere,I doubt the Govt would then look for all the smokers to try to get them to smoke again if it happened.

Of course help should be there for smokers to stop if they want to and it already is in fact.

Well thats just stating the obvious.. They will have to find a way to fill it...oh wait, Liam Fox already has.

joeysteele · 14-09-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy

Well thats just stating the obvious.. They will have to find a way to fill it...oh wait, Liam Fox already has.

Not necessarily just stating the obvious to be fair, I know many people who know it's a lot but who have little or no idea as to how much is actually raised from tobacco products duty for the Govt.

I didn't, for instance, know the figure for sure until Livia stated it, I am well aware she knows fully what she is talking about and since then,I have mentioned it to others I am with at present and funnlly enough they didn't realise how high the figures was and that it would leave such a massive hole in the Govt's revenue if all stopped.
Hardly just stating the obvious then.

Kizzy · 14-09-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Not necessarily just stating the obvious to be fair, I know many people who know it's a lot but who have little or no idea as to how much is actually raised from tobacco products duty for the Govt.

I didn't, for instance, know the figure for sure until Livia stated it, I am well aware she knows fully what she is talking about and since then,I have mentioned it to others I am with at present and funnlly enough they didn't realise how high the figures was and that it would leave such a massive hole in the Govt's revenue if all stopped.
Hardly just stating the obvious then.

Who cares?..What is the relevance of knowing how much it will cost the economy if everyone stopped?
So what if it's 12M or 20M?
The government have decided in their infinate wisdom to encourage people to stop smoking, there may be other medical or societal factors that they have considered long term we don't know....

joeysteele · 14-09-2012, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy

Who cares?..What is the relevance of knowing how much it will cost the economy if everyone stopped?
So what if it's 12M or 20M?
The government have decided in their infinate wisdom to encourage people to stop smoking, there may be other medical or societal factors that they have considered long term we don't know....

Well for me there is a strong relevance as to the loss of revenue and indeed it was mentioned in the OP as to the costs to the NHS of people smoking, so it is also only right and relevant to look at the other side of that and the duties raised and paid for by those who do smoke.

The raising of revenue from tobacco duty was a small end part of my first post on this issue, I then later agreed with and was very interested in the point Livia made as to the actual figures.

So as a poster with an opinion on smoking despite never being a smoker myself,I will say all I believe to be relevant as to the issue,never though ever saying that people should not be helped to stop smoking as long as they want to stop and need help to stop.

What though is irrelevant to you personally,may not be irrelevant to others however.
You chose to come back at me and nitpick on that small point in my posts so naturally I will defend my corner and opinion.
Disagreeing is one thing, however calling peoples attitudes wrong because they hold a different opinion to you or are saying something you consider irrelevant does not in any way make their opinion invalid as to their points.

I find many things people say on here irrelevant to me but I don't pull them up about it willy nilly,I believe posters should be able to, and indeed are , to make their points as they see fit without others getting at them in petty fashion.

waterhog · 14-09-2012, 08:23 PM

the gap they would loose in the drop in revenue would be gained back in the cost of treating everyone for the damage caused by the cigs in the first place. i just see it so hypocritical that something so wrong and so damaging is on sale from out own government.
yes the same can be said about alcohol and like cigs i think it should got up massively in price.

i think i am going to run for pm - would any of you lot vote for me ? i will write my manifesto in poetry so you no i am not kidding.

joeysteele · 14-09-2012, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhog

the gap they would loose in the drop in revenue would be gained back in the cost of treating everyone for the damage caused by the cigs in the first place. i just see it so hypocritical that something so wrong and so damaging is on sale from out own government.
yes the same can be said about alcohol and like cigs i think it should got up massively in price.

i think i am going to run for pm - would any of you lot vote for me ? i will write my manifesto in poetry so you no i am not kidding.

I personally think the loss of revenue from tobacco duty would be unlikely to be made up by savings in the NHS.
There may be some reduction but oddly enough I feel we may find it is not as much as we may think would occur.That is just my opinion though.

I agree with you as to alcohol too, on my visits to hospitals,I hear Doctors and Nurses moaning at that a lot more than I do as to cigarettes,I have also yet to see a smoker get offensively abusive and even violent to Nurses or Doctors too as opposed to those having had too much alcohol.

Even in supermarkets,it annoys me when people have toddlers in the trolley and they are piling alcohol into it with general shopping.
As with cigarettes,alcohol should be displayed and sold in a special section of the Store in my view.
Not be shoved in your face as you enter the store and also at the top and bottom of most aisles too, in addition to having it's own shelving area too.

You could waterhog, possibly get my vote if you were to do something about that.

Livia · 14-09-2012, 10:04 PM

The government makes more from tobacco tax than it costs to treat smoking related illness on the NHS. A huge strain on the NHS is obesity-related illness, so hopefully we can look forward to a "stop shoving saturdated fat and sugar down your throat and get off your arse more" campaign.

Kizzy · 15-09-2012, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well for me there is a strong relevance as to the loss of revenue and indeed it was mentioned in the OP as to the costs to the NHS of people smoking, so it is also only right and relevant to look at the other side of that and the duties raised and paid for by those who do smoke.

The raising of revenue from tobacco duty was a small end part of my first post on this issue, I then later agreed with and was very interested in the point Livia made as to the actual figures.

So as a poster with an opinion on smoking despite never being a smoker myself,I will say all I believe to be relevant as to the issue,never though ever saying that people should not be helped to stop smoking as long as they want to stop and need help to stop.

What though is irrelevant to you personally,may not be irrelevant to others however.
You chose to come back at me and nitpick on that small point in my posts so naturally I will defend my corner and opinion.
Disagreeing is one thing, however calling peoples attitudes wrong because they hold a different opinion to you or are saying something you consider irrelevant does not in any way make their opinion invalid as to their points.

I find many things people say on here irrelevant to me but I don't pull them up about it willy nilly,I believe posters should be able to, and indeed are , to make their points as they see fit without others getting at them in petty fashion.

For gods sake joey, can't anyone debate a point without being accused of getting at posters or nitpicking?
I did not call your attitude wrong, nor did not attempt to invalidate your opinion.
I am not pulling you up, but offering my opinion on a point raised in the OP too.
My replies are considered and relevant to the topic in discussion, they are not petty or personal in the slightest.
If I have in some way offended you I apologise.

lostalex · 15-09-2012, 11:00 AM

Creating a day to quit is dumb. It won't work. How is it any different from New Years resolutions? how many people stick to New Years resolutions? like... NONE.

If you need help, get it, no matter what month it is. All year long, when you need help and you want help, get it.

Josy · 15-09-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

Creating a day to quit is dumb. It won't work. How is it any different from New Years resolutions? how many people stick to New Years resolutions? like... NONE.

It's a full month but yeah I agree it won't work.

joeysteele · 15-09-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

Creating a day to quit is dumb. It won't work. How is it any different from New Years resolutions? how many people stick to New Years resolutions? like... NONE.

If you need help, get it, no matter what month it is. All year long, when you need help and you want help, get it.

I agree with you,I cannot see it being a success lostalex, although it is suggesting you go a month without cigarettes or gradually reduce and stop the number you smoke, I feel it won't make any difference in the long run really.

There are lots of places where smokers can get assistance to stop smoking if they want to.
As you say, if they want help and want to stop, get the help anytime of the year, which in fact they can do.

Kizzy · 15-09-2012, 11:57 AM

Well it is worth a try, nothing worth achieving is ever easy

http://www.dh.gov.uk/health/2012/09/stoptober/

There is lots of info on healthy eating and staying fit on there too, change for life being one initiative.